View Full Version : Federal
11-03-2011, 07:11 PM
I bought a couple cases of this stuff from http://www.ammoman.com, when it got here, it had the "Not For Duty Use" label on it.
Why is that?
Is that because "SS109" typically isn't issued to LEO's?
11-03-2011, 07:14 PM
It probably didn't pass some arbitrary quality standard. I've seen them sell the rejected stuff as LE practice ammo before.
Its probably just a liability thing.
11-03-2011, 07:42 PM
I have wondered the same thing. I would like to know what is wrong with it. I have been interested in picking a couple of cases up
11-03-2011, 07:56 PM
I wrote Eric at ammoman.com an email tonight with these questions... I'll post his response when I get it. I've opened the cases and it all looks first class, no dents or anything... I once bought some "Remington Reloads" for cheap. In a 1000 round factory case, I had 5-6 dented shells that would not feed into the action (I manually cycled each one). Then there 20 other dented cases that did cycle, so I kept those.
But this Federal stuff looks new.
11-03-2011, 08:07 PM
Nothing is wrong with the ammo. Due to it being the "green tip" ammo, aka 62 grain penetrater ammo our military uses, it's labeled not for duty use due to over penetration concerns. They should have been more specific and said not for LEO duty use. Training yes, duty no. Most LEO rifle rounds are either HPs, SPs, or some kind of polymer tipped ammo like Hornady's TAP/HAP lines. Just like LEO using high tech HPs in pistols that mushroom to make bigger surface are for more friction (thru body tissues) to prevent over penetration.....or something like that.
11-03-2011, 08:15 PM
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855A1 (United States):62-grain green tip w/19-grain steel penetrator tip and a solid copper core.
reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO#Military_cartridge_types
Could it have something to do with the steel penetrator tip?
11-03-2011, 08:21 PM
The round is probably marked that because it wouldn't look good in our society if a uniformed civilian was caught using military ammo. Not pc.
11-03-2011, 08:22 PM
Curious, what is the date stamp on the casings say. Is it mix and match or all the same year.
11-04-2011, 11:06 AM
I got a response back from them:
Anytime the contract test lot does not meet spec in any way, they release it to the public.
100% the best ammo you will shoot short of match ammo.
So I guess the ammo was rejected for some reason...
yes this ammo has had some issues:
"Well I went back out to the range and took the XM193 out for another spin. All was going very well until the dreaded flames from the receiver cover. Well lucky for me my friend caught the case. I shot several half loaded magazines of XM193 with no other issues. I took some brass home that we captured and I started taking measurements.
Seems the longer case neck was not my only issue. The case head was .003 to .005" too big. It may not seem like much to most but .003-.005" can go from safe to gun fired out of battery and thats what it was doing. Although the blot was fully forward the bolt was not fully locked. That could have turned a good day at the range to a trip to the emergency room in a pull of the trigger. So I figured let me see how many more in my box match the out of spec dimensions and to my surprise none. Now I did buy another box and measured the cases all is well in the next box but I may phase out this ammo unless I am just trying to scare someone at the range. "
From the saiga 12 forum, Just go to the .223 section and look up "Lake City XM193....oh crap"
11-09-2011, 10:41 PM
Can you sell ammo that is out of spec? I would think there would be issues labelling it as 5.56mm Nato if it didn't meet the SAMMI dimensions
11-09-2011, 10:53 PM
I would think that is was perfectly in spec. It's the same ammo used for "training" in the Army. Good enough for the range, not meeting whatever standards for combat. This was made for the civilian market after the manufacturer filled it's government orders.
That whole pesky "can't sell military ammo on the surplus market" law. Protects the manufacturers ability to make money on the civilian market. Can't have Uncle Sam dump 100 million 10 year old 5.56 rounds on the market every year.
They don't want departments getting the idea they can use this stuff on duty when they sell the same rounds to them as duty ammunition for a premium.
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