VEPR - Buyer Beware !

[leftover]

VEPR – The Cadillac of AKs

Or so we keep hearing on this Forum.

Consumers beware; I am posting this information for the benefit of those innocent shooters who may feel that opinions offered by those who run this board are impartial and unbiased (don't forget that Robinson Armament is a board sponsor). The information I provide is true, and backed up by pictures. I don't know how long it will be allowed to remain here.

In response to the polite requests from Bowhunter, OptimusPrime, & onepercent, I have uploaded some pictures of my brand new unfired VEPR K – direct from Robinson Armament (Robyou.com). Bowhunter et al, keep reminding me that a polite request is rewarded with good service, so I felt compelled to comply with their requests and post pictures of my VEPR. Sorry for any embarrassment to Alex Robinson, but these guys did insist I do this – perhaps if you're nice to me I may have something good to say about you and Robyou too (but don't hold your breath).

You can't believe everything you hear right ? Well, I ordered a new VEPR K based upon all the hype on this board (the majority of owners may well have good reason to be proud and rejoice). My VEPR was less than perfect. As mentioned in other threads, I was not too concerned about the surface defects, nor even the mag well that was positioned off center in the receiver base, and was geometrically unsymmetrical. The thing that really bugged me every time I picked up the rifle was the canted front sight – you just can't miss it, it was worse than the sights on either of my 2 SARs, which were less that half the price of the VEPR.

I wrote a polite email note to Robyou, asking for corrective action, and waited for a response. They promise one within 24 hrs. After several days a response was not forthcoming. By this time I had made several posts on this site regarding the sight defect on my rifle, and the lack of a response from Robyou. After Robyou had seem the posts here they decided to respond – they told me that this was an AK, not a hunting rifle, and that canted sights were the norm, and in fact my sight was less canted than many which pass their QC (a far cry from what their promotional material says). For the record the box the rifle comes in has "semi automatic hunting rifle" in very large letters on the front (also pictured).

Alex Robinson says this sight cant is one degree or less. One degree = 60 inches at 100 yards (that's five feet !)

Many of the brown-nosers on this board said I was whining about nothing – yet all refused to buy this unfired rifle at a discount price.

This saga has dragged on way too long on this board, and this will be my final post on the subject – no matter how nicely Bowhunter, OptimusPrime, & onepercent ask me, I shall not be responding. This rifle is now history as far as I'm concerned – the only question left is, will the company follow ?


http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174Front_sight_cant_an.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174Hanguard_1_s-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174Left_side_2-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174Right_side_1_s-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174Left_side_3-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174Mag_well-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174Rear_sight__R_-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174Rear_sight__L_-med.jpg


http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174base_1sc-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/19174VEPR_box_1.jpg

[Fargo]

Looks like a typical Russian AK to me!

Those "flaws" on the bottom of the receiver are factory arsenal stampings.

Paints typical of all the Russian AK's I have ever seen.

Mag well off center. Hmmmm. Dont know what to say about that. Not perfect but its an AK.

The casting marks on the rear sight block are typical. What do you expect?

[imanaknut]

What I see in those pictures are some of the best close-ups short that I have ever seen, short of using an electron microscope! As a photographer, those are some very sharp and fabulous close-ups. As a firearms lover, I do not think that there is a firearm made that could stand up to that kind of scrutiny! Yes the front sight appears to be off slightly, but all of the other marks are what I would consider normal or incidental on any firearm if viewed through a magnifying glass.

[MOPAR]

The front sight cant doesnt look too good.:( About the scratches

and other things that can be seen under microscope-it's an AK-47.

Most people dont buy a VEPR AK to put under glass in a

museum. AK's need to have a little character. No flame

intended;) Just my $.02

[Mr Wild Bill]

You want perfect? Buy a Weatherby rifle or Krieghoff shotgun. Its silly to expect perfection in a $500 rifle. The afore mentioned longguns are $1000 and $5000 dollars.

To say the box was wrong! You remind me of a customer I had a couple of months ago. I made an absolutely perfect Colt Dragoon case for him in the original 1850's Colt style. I hand selected a piece of burl mahogany and hand oiled and rubbed six coats. It was the nicest Dragoon case that has been made this century. He called the workmanship poor, the wood poor and said it was inaccurate in interior configuration.

I have studied Colt percussion cases at gun shows across the country and photographed and cataloged hundreds of originals and purchased six expensive reference books on the subject. Its my busines and I have sold over 600 of them. The case was perfect, historically accurate and beautiful. He was an Asshole and came back the next month to buy another one. I told him to take a hike.

Some people are never satisfied. I dont think you are one of those but I think your expectations are too high. Its a military rifle. They are mass produced and are going to have a few bin marks. You have a point, the fsb is canted ever so slightly. Sight adjustment will fix that.

Your post was informative and I appreciated a lot of it.

[Prometheus606]

Personally the VEPRs I have held and fired have been fine rifles. Although I do not care for them due to the aesthestics of the rifle..or in plain english it just dont look like a AK to me!! As far as the fit and finish they seem to be (in my experence) the best that I have seen direct from the factory that are currently for sale to the general public. But I am more of a traditional man and prefer a AKM clone....Hope all works out with your trouble with your VEPR and thanks for the warning

[leftover]

Like I said fellas, I don't care about the asthetics.

Couple of times in the woods and it'll look much worse, and I really don't care how my guns look. I just expected to get an uncanted front sight. Most VEPR owners seem to have perfect front sights, why should I have to accept a crooked one.

It's all academic now anyway, the rifle is gone to a new home. I may try a SAM7 next, and if I don't care for that I can always jump on a new VEPR from the next bunch that are imported. Hopefully I'll be luckier next time around.

Good thing about these AKs is that they do sell well ;)

[Ak-103man]

I had a vepr II 7.62 I never had any problems with the gun but to me it was to heavy and didnt look like a AK so I sold it to my stepdad and bought a saiga and converted it to a ak-103 I love my saiga because I built it to my needs the veprs are over rated in my opion I want a gun that can take a beating not a wall gun ;)

[Hootbro]

I will give you the front sight is messed up. Did your receiving FFL finger fuck it and show any other customers the rifle before you picked it up? Another possibility is Robinson sent you someone elses returned rifle.

[gun papa]

The lettering, factory marks, etc. are typical russian AK. I wouldnt except the canted sight. The mag well looks normal.

They SHOULD swap it out for you. It only makes good business. Poor customer service for what is a product defect. I know, me as a consumer. I spend my money to be satisfied both by the product I have chosen, and the knowledge that if there is a problem, the company stands behind the product.

I would still buy the vepr. First inspection at my FFL, the gun would have been rejected by me personally and sent back. Better to send it back and wait, then to except the gun and possibly be helpless.

Whats your newest discounted price? Papa

[UGACherokee]

This is supposed to be a new and unfired rifle?!

Please. :rolleyes:

Those surface scratches -- particularly those on the bottom corner of the receiver -- look like wear/abuse to me.


At any rate,

1. My mag well looks exactly like leftovers, and I mean exactly the same silhouette, which leads me to believe that this is how the Vepr magwell is stamped.

2. The "Vyatskiye Polyany" is aligned with the top of the receiver -- not the bottom; that is a ridiculous complaint. :rolleyes:

[jeff brown]

IF ANY OF YOU GOT THAT CANTED FRONT SIGHT. ON A GUN WE JUST PAID FOR WE WOULD........... SCREAM..........I HAVE 6 preban ak typ guns..NONE OF THEN ..NONE OF THEM..have a mag well like that..or front sights laying over two one side....i have seen some like that and i would not buy them.......i would get rid of it it will only bring you ..PAIN ....every time you look at it...sorry ..leftover...it looks like shit..if that is what thay look like ..ill tell my frend to look at yours he was going to get one.....:D ...........jeff.....P/S the only thing that is the norm is the casting / stamp. marks in the rear sights..and resvr..i have seen that....but that other shit...it dont fly...(with a good toss it mite)....:p

[leftover]

I sold this one last week. The guy got a good deal, and is happy with it.

The mag well looks worse when you see it in person, the pics don't really convey the true story. Every mag you insert comes out scratched to hell - burrs and/or misalignment problems. I never fired it, but he's not been back, so I assume it works OK.

Several locals mentioned that they'd had or seen problem VEPRs too.

Scratches etc really don't bother me a bit, my guns get used hard anyway.

The front sight is pinned to the barrel. Most AKs have 2 pins, the VEPR has only one. I don't know how these things are assembled at the factory, but the barrel will be a press fit. If the sight pin slot is machined before barrel fitting, perhaps they just mis-aligned the barrel during fitting ? Either way, I think that it would be a difficult fault to correct (perhaps not ?).

Robyou certainly seemed pleased to be rid of it, and if it was within specification (as they claimed) then they would have had nothing to lose by exchanging it - make sense ?

I think the possibility of that rifle being a previous return is high. The Robyou return policy looks good BUT it is the customer who pays the shipping, so Robyou effectively have a system whereby the customers pay to look at the product, and they can just keep sending it out at no cost to them until some sucker accepts it. Not bad busienss if you can get it.

I'm gonna try a Arsenal SAM7 (or one of their new models) next. Friend has one and it looks very nice - he's happy, and he's more difficult to please than I am. Actually I'm not difficult to please at all - a product that is as described / advertized, and fair aftersales service, and I'm happy.

I buy a SAR and I expect canted sights and little or no aftersales service. I pay twice as much for a gun advertised as top quality, and I expect straight sights, not lies and feeble excuses. My SAR sights are straighter than the VEPR ones (g)

Since I've been looking around the internet I see many NIB or slightly used Robinson 96 rifles and VEPRs for sale. I wonder how many customers are disgruntled and not prepared to admit it (or don't want to devalue the product they seek to sell)

No more VEPR for me.

[thestumper]

Wow...

I guess I have to agree with the side that says "a new rifle should look better than that". If it were my $500.00, I would have been offended.

I came VERY close to buying a VEPR, but the delays gave me some time to reconsider, and I'm glad that I did.

Do yourself a favor and look at the AK-USA AK-103. Its a Russian AK, built up from a Saiga (out of the Ismash arsenal), and I've been absolutely thrilled with mine. Chris Butler does a super-nice job, and he's great to deal with. I drove him nuts with my order, and he was still cool about everything :-)

My finish was flawless and even though I haven't had a "real" range seesion (Sorry Chris; too cold :-) my friend and I spent some time (and $$$) at a local indoor facility. At about 25 yards, I was getting 3/4 to 1.25 inch groups (with iron sights. Unadjusted for windage, minor adjustments for elevations. They were straight as hell and spot on out of the box. I am confident that it will group within 1.5 to 2 inches or better at 50.

The quality is what you would expect from a Russian AK, but with a nicer finish. No problems yet with any mags: I use both polymer and steel. No firing malfunctions of any kind. It rips!

www.ak-103.com

At least take a look. You deserve it at this point :-)

Eric.

[SLR fan]

I almost bought one of these puppies but saw this post & decided not to get one. I bought a .308 Saiga instead. The front sight didn't bother me as much as the mag well. However taken together plus the customer service issue, I decided to pass on a VEPR. I'm very happey with the Saiga and would highly recommend it to anyone. Sorry to hear about your experience.

[leftover]

I'll probably run with an Arsenal SA-M7 next (or perhaps one of their upcoming models).

AK USA and the 'other' Arsenal are also possibilities.

Since I had my VEPR experience I searched the archives on several internet forums. Lots of people seem to sell VEPRs VERY quickly after delivery. Some people admitted they had quality problems, some did not (probably hoping to shift them quickly).

Every company turns out a defective product now and then, but when a company sells on the promise of quality and service you expect to get just that. My SARs have straighter sights and a better mag well than the VEPR which cost twice as much. I think VEPRs have been hyped too much - end of story.

[shabby99]

leftover,
I would recommend the SAM7. Mine is absolutely perfect...none of the "blemishes" I got on my VEPR. My SAM is the classic with the blond wood and no brake. I have examined every inch of it and have yet to find a complaint. FSB is straight as an arrow (I think I read on the Bulgarian forum that the sights are aligned using a laser device) and no rattling mags! The only thing I don't like is the mil-spec stock length on the classic. If you get a standard one, you'll get an American sized stock. Some people like the standard ones...I like the extra length. I hope you find the SAM7 to your liking. If you had mine, you'd forget all about that VEPR...fast.
Shabby

[just some guy]

That aint no Cadilac (not a big Cadilac fan, but still). You have to ask yourself how the hell the gun made it through even the most basic QA process with a canted front sight, then you have to come to the conclusion, that it didn't.

Sorry leftover, it sux to get crap when you expect a show piece.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Leftover, It sucks that you got such a crappy rifle from RA. I would be pissed off too! However in the interest of fairness I own 2 VEPR II's. 1 is a 5,45 K the other a .308 20". I found my rifles to be fantastic in fit & finnish. Also extremely accurate as compared to my other AK's. The only bad point I find about these guns is the weight. But then again they are no heavier than my Garand, just not balanced as well. Again I am not defending shitty customer service but want people to understand that you are in the minority (getting a shitty VEPR) if I had been in your shoes I would send the rifle back. It just seems as though you have a personal axe to grind here. I have received shitty rifles from Century and had to do everything short of pulling teeth to get them replaced, yet don't have a personal vendetta against them.
Smart buyers will do their homework and find out the pros & cons of each supplier/rifle. I knew Century's rep and ordered anyway.
I would say that they run a much higher garbage-to-good ratio than RA. I even had to send a 1000 dollar rifle (M1A) back to Springfield for replacement once. So no-one is immune to the occasional Lemon.

[potshot308]

I was within hours of ordering a VEPR II when I read your first post. Any company can let a turd slip through once in a while, but crappy customer service is unforgivable. It is good business to take care of the unhappy customer, because in the long run it is much cheaper that just blowing him off. I think I will do a saiga conversion instead.

[Boogieman]

Originally posted by potshot308
I think I will do a saiga conversion instead.


This thread changed my mind. I'll probably do the Saiga/AK-103 conversion.

[leftover]

Thanks for the SA-M7 feedback shabby. I'm near 100% certain that I'll be ordering an Arsenal Inc. I would have ordered a SA-M7 already, but am just waiting to see what the new rifles are like that are scheduled to be unveiled in a few weeks.

I wouldn't deny that there are far more happy VEPR owners than unhappy ones. And I agree that any company kicks out a bad one now and then. However, I expect them to fix the problems on a VEPR price rifle, not just laugh and tell you that you expect too much and go away.

When I buy a SAR I don't expect any service from Century, so I hand pick. When I spend $600 on a VEPR I expect the chance of defects to be low, and the prospect of good customer service to be high; and neither was the case in this instance.

I think VEPR quality is slipping, and the customers are being made to pay for quality that is no longer guaranteed.

[mack8384]

:deadhorse :deadhorse

Mack M.

[der Stahlgewehr]

Back in the late 1980s when I first got into AKs, no one ever heard of canted sights. It was pretty much Chinese stuff back then, and everyone was down on the quality of it, particularly the Norincos. Now that we have seen the rest, we can look back on those Chinese AKs and appreciate how good they really were! Too bad there won't be any more coming in.

I have owned a Norinco 56S since 1989 and have never had any problems with it. It has propelled thousands of trouble-free rounds down range, and still looks new. I didn't even need to adjust the windage or elevation on the front sight; it was right on the money, right out of the box.

I would recommend a pre-ban or custom build if you want to get a "magnifying glass" level of quality in an AK.

[Flinter]

I too was seriously considering buying one of these based on what I had read here on the forum. It was going to be my income tax present to myself. NOT NOW. I can accept that a bad gun is gonna slide through the cracks from time to time, but this is a buyers market and I will not take a chance on getting bad customer service. I also take offense to all of that "it's an AK, what do you expect" crap. Ya, I'll buy that if we are talking about a Romanian........but for crying out loud, I can buy a Remington 700 for about the same money, and the fit/finish on those are flawless. I'd spend 500 on a VEPR because I wanted it to have good fit/finish. Otherwise.........I'd simply buy 2 Romanians!!

[UGACherokee]

According to leftover, the Vepr K rifle is now supposedly inferior in quality and finish to the SAR rifles. Interesting. . .

This is a comparison between a Vepr K and SAR-2 (that's what I have); anyone wishing to ride the point that it's not a SAR-1 is free to post pictures displaying vast differences in the quality/production levels between the SAR-1 and SAR-2.

Pic one: FSBs .................Pic two: RSB and Left receiver (note rectangle showing correct alignment of lettering); btw, the spot above the 02 was where I dropped HD bore-cleaner on the finish and didn't notice, i.e "an owner mistake".

http://alltel.net/~rj_butler/VeprSarComparo/ComparoFSB.jpghttp://alltel.net/~rj_butler/VeprSarComparo/ComparoRSBLR.jpg

Pic three: Receiver covers

http://alltel.net/~rj_butler/VeprSarComparo/ComparoRC.jpg

Pic four : Bolt carriers

http://alltel.net/~rj_butler/VeprSarComparo/ComparoBC.jpg

Pic five: recoil springs (note double coiled spring and telescoping guide of Vepr versus single-coiled spring and "U" PITA guide of SAR)

http://alltel.net/~rj_butler/VeprSarComparo/ComparoRS.jpg

And of course, the now infamous (thanks to leftover) magwell superiority of the SAR. Check out the superior quality in the finish and the awesome riveting on that SAR. Wow! :rolleyes:

http://alltel.net/~rj_butler/VeprSarComparo/ComparoMW.jpg

Speaking for just me, I'm not ready to accept leftover's assessment. Sorry. :dunno:

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by Flinter
I too was seriously considering buying one of these based on what I had read here on the forum. It was going to be my income tax present to myself. NOT NOW. I can accept that a bad gun is gonna slide through the cracks from time to time, but this is a buyers market and I will not take a chance on getting bad customer service.

If you act like a jerk*, as leftover has done on these forums, and return a rifle that looks like it's been dropped to a company, you're probably not going to get good service.

Expecting to get good service in those circumstances is over-optimistic to say the least.

*jerk includes the, "The board is in a conspiracy against me, and I don't know how long these crooked admins are going to leave this post up" crap (see leftover's first post in this thread), as well as the personal attacks in other threads. Typically, you handle customer service with a company, not on a hobby forum like this one.

Fact: Folks who give companies a decent opportunity to make something right typically get better customer service than hardcases. Not always, but typically.

I also take offense to all of that "it's an AK, what do you expect" crap. Ya, I'll buy that if we are talking about a Romanian........but for crying out loud, I can buy a Remington 700 for about the same money and the fit/finish on those are flawless.

Apples. Oranges. If you can find a higher quality semi-auto rifle that offers a choice of three calibers (four if you include the .308), takes plentiful pre-ban mags for less money, let all of us know. Seriously.

I'd spend 500 on a VEPR because I wanted it to have good fit/finish.

Which the Vepr has. It also has a thicker receiver and a heavy barrel. Is the Vepr worth the $200 premium over the SAR in value and workmanship? Absolutely.

Is it worth it to someone who can't stand to pay more than $300 for a "cheap commie rifle", or to someone who just wants to bump-fire and make a lot of noise? Probably not. But all that means is that the Vepr isn't the right rifle for everyone. (Just like every other firearm on the market.)

[thestumper]

I'm actually surprsied at how well that SAR stacks up :)

Its it worse: yes.

Is it $200-300 worse: not to me.

But thats just me :p :p :p

Cheers !

Eric.

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by thestumper
I'm actually surprsied at how well that SAR stacks up :)

Its it worse: yes.

Is it $200-300 worse: not to me.

But thats just me :p :p :p

Cheers !

Eric.

Funny thing about pictures is they don't always tell the whole story.

The SAR in the picture was sent to Century to have its canted RSB repaired, and Century for some reason replaced the working bolt carrier/gas piston assembly, i.e "mine", with a non-working bolt carrier/gas piston assembly, i.e. "someone elses", and didn't tell anyone about it, least of all me. When I noticed the "change" -- shooting the rifle -- the two pieces were exactly one-quarter of a turn from separating from each other.

As my bolt carrier assembly was gone --probably to fix someone else's rifle -- their final solution to the problem was to reweld the busted bolt carrier and gas piston back together, grind the non-matching SN off and scrawl on (literally) "my" SN.

Is the service I received from Century worse than anything leftover has presented in these forums? Yep.

Is it $200 - $300 worse. I'd say, "At the very least."

But that's just me. :bye:

[thestumper]

So, essentially, canted sights were no more acceptable to you on a $300 SAR than they were for leftover on his $500+ VEPR.

Thats cool. For $300, and given Century's reputation, you could not really expect anything resembling service. Then again, Century does not advertise the SAR as a top of the line firearm. It is what it is. At least Century agreed to attempt repairs. The fact that they mangled it inexcusable, but hey, it's Century.

At what point is a canted sight acceptable? I paid $600+ for my AK-USA 103K. It has no cant. Is $600 what you have to spend to be guaranteed straight sights? Or is it $700 and I just got lucky? Or maybe $750...

This basic design is 50 years old. Its not too much to expect for a vendor to put the freaking sights on straight. :rolleyes:

Eric.

[leftover]

Go down to Walmart and pick up a $99 10/22. You get a semi auto rifle that accepts hi cap mags, and the quality is better than the $600 VEPR. :D

If you hit them on a good day, they'll throw in a scope too.

[CZ52GUY]

I'm a firearms enthusiast who had a 7.62 x 39 VEPR K all picked out as part of my fiscal 2003 purchases.

I've read many of Mr. Robinson's posts on this forum and others. I read leftover's review, and Mr. Robinson's e-mail responses to his inquiry.

Robinson Arms is in Utah. I live in New England. You can argue about what you see or don't see, or about how leftover interacted with Alex, or whether a firearms dealer should be held to a different standard, than say a car dealer when interacting with customers.

To engage in a purchase like this from long distance, I needed to achieve a level of confidence in Mr. Robinson's product, and his willingness to stand behind it.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of leftover's assertions, it is Mr. Robinson whom I evaluated. I've finally come to the conclusion that Mr. Robinson does not meet the two criteria that would be required for me to purchase a VEPR from afar.

1) He does not have a superior product that would never require service so it doesn't matter how he treats his customers.

2) He does not seem inclined to consistently offer good service. Based on the many interactions I've seen where Mr. Robinson's words are made available either directly by him, or indirectly by a customer, I can only conclude that there is some material risk that satisfactory service would not be provided.

Instead of the VEPR K, I'm looking at a SAR-1 for this year.

Instead of the second VEPR K in .223, I'll be looking at a 7.62 x 39 AK-103 from AK-USA.

Instead of the Super VEPR II I was considering in .308, right now I'm leaning toward an Springfield M1A for twice the money (would actually be interested in a lower cost alternative within the "AK family" if anybody has any ideas).

At any rate, for a fairly unique product like the VEPR, Mr. Robinson needs to set a higher standard in order for value conscious firearms enthusiasts like me to "trust him" to provide superior product and service from afar.

By HIS OWN WORDS, Mr. Robinson has convinced me to look elsewhere, which is too bad. I had about $1700 allocated over the next 3 or 4 years for product that he sells. Sure it's probably not much, but it's $1700 he's not likely to see unless I see a change in customer service approach at Robinson Armament.

For what it's worth leftover, I wouldn't be thrilled to get that "shiny new" VEPR either. Mr. Robinson sets high expectations in his marketing. He should not be surprised when his customers hold him to those expectations.

Best Wishes,

CZ52'

[leftover]

Very wise words from CZ52GUY :cool:

[Skibane]

This saga has dragged on way too long on this board, and this will be my final post on the subject

And yet, 6 posts later, you're still here?

Gentlemen, please don't feed the trolls. It only encourages them.

[leftover]

Nobody is forcing you to read this - thanks for the snack Skibane :D

And a girl does have the right to change her mind, doesn't she ?

[jeff brown]

........if ya dont like it send it back..look at it befor you fill out the paper work...if you dont like it ...SEND IT BACK...in the photos..i see parts guns......sorry.....:) ....if i was to pay $600.00 for a ak .its going to be for a preban like custom build..or put $300.00 more with it and get a preban AK ....so you can use the parts guns(in the photos ) for parts ...lol....:D its only money guys and you cant take it with you......ill sell you a norinco preban AK 84s. with 4 norinco 30rd mags..and all the goodys for ..$950.00...yes its like new also.....jeff........J/K ABOUT THE OTHER PARTS GUNS.....LOL:D :D

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by leftover
Nobody is forcing you to read this - thanks for the snack Skibane :D

1. You were bitching about the Vepr before you ordered it.
2. You ordered it anyway.
3. Griped about how long it was taking to get to you.
4. Refused to telephone RA's customer service relying on email.
5. Emailed RA after closing hours.
6. When they hadn't reponded to you before they opened for business you called Alex Robinson a "cunt".
7. You complained that Vepr owners on the board weren't complaining.
8. You made :tinfoil: remarks that the board was in collusion with RA.

You are not sane, leftover.

Anyone who buys or doesn't buy a product on your recommendation does so at their own risk.

[CZ52GUY]

One can argue that leftover did not facilitate his/her position and may not have approached RA in an optimal manner.

However:

1) The pictures speak for themselves, the item delivered does not reconcile with RA descriptions of their products. I will not be buying from RA arms.

2) Mr. Robinson's approach to this customer when COMBINED with numerous other circumstances I've observed, do not provide me with sufficient confidence that I can engage in a long distance transaction and expect the two vital elements
a) superior product
b) superior service

Others can draw their own conclusions about leftover and Mr. Robinson. I won't be buying from Robinson Armament based on the actions of Mr. Robinson, not on any specific concerns raised by leftover. leftover's experience only reinforces a decision I was headed toward anyway.

AK-USA, here I come.

Best Regards,

CZ52'

[leftover]

lotta fiction there UGACherokee, ever considered a career writing children's books ? You do like children, don't you ? I'll help you with sentence construction, grammar, and punctuation - for a modest fee :D

[Mr Wild Bill]

Oooooooooo:eek: Leftover is really asking for it. I might buy a VEPR just to see.

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by leftover
lotta fiction there UGACherokee, ever considered a career writing children's books ? You do like children, don't you ? I'll help you with sentence construction, grammar, and punctuation - for a modest fee :D

Re. #1 & #2: The furniture on the Vepr is common knowledge. You knew what it looked like before you ordered it, so if you were of a mind to complain about it after receiving your rifle, you were of a mind to complain about it before ordering; your post 1/06/03:

I never thought I'd see a butt as butt ugly as a Ruger All-Weather butt - but I have. (too many buts here ?) The VEPR butt looks cheap, and I wish they'd designed something that looked a little better and was a little shorter so that it could be shouldered quickly and used with heavy clothing. (http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97555)

#s 3 - 8 were taken directly from your posts.

I was naturally sympathetic to your cause until your behavior made me wonder whether or not your cause was fraudulent. The Vepr rifle pictured in the images you posted to this thread shows damage that is easily consistent with a rifle that has been dropped.

Did you drop your rifle and then attempt to defraud RA out of a brand new Vepr by claiming that the now canted FSB was their QC error? Who is to say?

I combined that very real possibility with the behavior you've displayed in this and other threads when I considered your situation.

Now that you're trolling me personally and just for giggles, I'm pretty confident about where I stand.

[jeff brown]

...IF YOU CAN MOVE THE FRONT SIGHT BY DROPING THE GUN ...YOU MEAN TOSSING IT FROM A MOVING PLANE..RIGHT???IS THE BBL MADE OF CLAY??I DID NOT KNOW THAY MADE IT FROM CLAY..........:D ROTFLMAO :D IT LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER.CHEAP ASS VEPR BILD TO ME.......SOFT STEEL (almost clay like)..LOL..come on man ........:D..AND I WAS THINKING OF GETING A m96??

[leftover]

The VEPR front sight was canted NOT bent. Dropping *may* bend a sight post, but to rotate it around the barrel (i.e. canting) it would need to have sufficient force applied to break the locating/retaining pin.

Most Aks have two of these, the VEPR has only one BUT it would take more than dropping to break the pin and rotate the front sight.

So what's it to be - there's nothing wrong with the rifle worth grumbling about (I'm just a moaner), or it's a mess because it's been dropped. Can't have it both ways.

And I'll remind you that the only one who has defrauded anyone is Alex Robinson & Robyou. Premium quality, not a hunting rifle - yeah, right :D

I would also remind everyone here that the rifle was placed for sale on this board. Everyone here had a chance to get a VEPR at a discount price - a rifle that you must advance order and wait several months for. Despite the opportunity to save money and time, I didn't get one serious enquiry - wonder why that was ? :rolleyes:

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by leftover
I would also remind everyone here that the rifle was placed for sale on this board. Everyone here had a chance to get a VEPR at a discount price - a rifle that you must advance order and wait several months for. Despite the opportunity to save money and time, I didn't get one serious enquiry - wonder why that was ? :rolleyes:

My personal reason for not buying your rifle is that you are an asshole and deserved to be stuck with it, but that's just me.

People you haven't flamed might not have been interested because they didn't have the money, or didn't need another rifle, or didn't want to buy trouble for themselves, or any of a number of reasons.

I'd have given you $150 for it if you were covering the shipping.

As it happens, I have yet to buy any kind of firearm offered for sale on these forums, and that includes rifles owned by people I know and like. According to your limited logic, all of those rifles must also have been secretly thought by the board to be poor choices.

[leftover]

Well, if that's your best shot at intelligent conversation......:D

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by leftover
Well, if that's your best shot at intelligent conversation......:D

...you'll leave the board and never come back?

If that's a promise, I keep the big words out of my posts and restrict my text to a third-grade reading level until you leave.

Don't take too long with the goodbyes, though.

[jeff brown]

......LEFTOVER.......... DONT LET .THEM GET TO YA......I KNOW IF I GOT A GUN LOOKING LIKE THAT I WOULD CRAMM IT UP THER ASS...:D .....JEFF....(can you feel it! .can you feEL IT BABY!!)

[leftover]

Yeah Jeff, I'm beginning to think that Alex Robinson is hopping around this board with quite a few aliases :rolleyes:

Either that or the man has no idea what it's like to use toilet paper :D

[The Body Bagger]

Letfover or mr. Al Gore (whichever you prefer) I was pretty sure you read the post that I had made under the Robinson section of this site. I had thought that I could rely upon you not attack satified members of the Vepr community. I see however that you have yet to understand the fact that others here have nice VEPRS and that this really isn't a conspiracy born out of Robarms to say otherwise. You continue to attack the satified Vepr owners proclaiming that maybe we are all alias' of Alex Robinson. If that is truly the way you feel and truly what you believe, I am sorry to say I will no longer be responding to any of your posts. I thought that maybe you were a person of intelligence and now perhaps I had been judging too highly of you. My mistake.

Sincerely Bill in Chicago, aka Alex Robinson ;)

[Flinter]

Originally posted by UGACherokee
If you act like a jerk........probably not going to get good service.

Expecting to get good service in those circumstances is over-optimistic to say the least.

USGACHEROKEE.....That's what costumer service does, they deal with jerks.......as well as normal ordinary people like you and me. If I had bought that rifle, they'd have had the same problem. If they refused (I AM right here right? They refused to fix the rifle?) to fix it......I'd be shouting from the mountain top. AND I definately would warn EVERYONE I knew about it. People who make quality products WANT a defect returned. In the gun market today, to get a bad rap is the kiss of death, and i guarantee you Remington, Winchester, Ruger or any of the other big name manufacturers would have been wanted to get it back just to keep their good name. Those rifle are no more expensive than a VEPR (and the VEPR probably has a higher profit margin) so I dont' understand why you would say that the "customer" was in the wrong.........the customer has a bum rifle.


Apples. Oranges. If you can find a higher quality semi-auto rifle that offers a choice of three calibers (four if you include the .308), takes plentiful pre-ban mags for less money, let all of us know. Seriously.

Not for my money. When you advertise your AK as the cadillac of AK's, you should back that up. I expect mine to be perfect. HELL, I expected my $350 Bulgarian to be perfect! My whole point with the Romanian AK was that ya, if I see a $250 AK on the shelf then I expect to get a 250 dollar product. But if I"m paying 600........I want something twice as nice as the $250 one. I don't expect canted front sites........I want a 600 dollar AK or I want it made right.

worth the $200 premium over the SAR in value and workmanship? Absolutely.

NOT THE ONE I SAW PIX OF!!!!!!!!!!!!



I'm sure that most VEPR's the come off the assembly line are fine. I'm sure that this one just "slipped through the cracks", as I have already said. BUT............when you refuse to make your product right, well........you are just asking for the bad publicity. One reason I like this board is because I can read about products before I buy them.......or ask questions about something I'm THINKING about buying. I want opinions from EVERYONE who has one, not just the guys who are satisfied. That way I can make an educated decision.

I haven't read any other posts that I remember from the guy who originally posted this. He may be an ass (sorry man, but I don't know.......you MIGHT be ) but either way, I for one am glad he told me about this.

[Flinter]

Sorry USGACHEROKEE........but I screwed the quote up. Just to set the record straight.........paragraph's 3, 5 and 7 are my opinions, not a quote from USACHEROKEE.

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by Flinter
I haven't read any other posts that I remember from the guy who originally posted this. He may be an ass (sorry man, but I don't know.......you MIGHT be ) but either way, I for one am glad he told me about this.

No argument here, and I understand your perspective.

Here's mine:

But for the way leftover has behaved on these forums, I would have given him the benefit of the doubt about his rifle and his problems with RA. Instead, I have to wonder how much of his claim is real and how much is horseshit.

That got me flamed as well.

If he gets screwed on his next rifle purchase? Good job to the shifty SOB that got him. :up:

[leftover]

"If he gets screwed on his next rifle purchase? Good job to the shifty SOB that got him. "

Now we know where this guy stands - he who supports criminals should not have a gun :rolleyes:

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by leftover
"If he gets screwed on his next rifle purchase? Good job to the shifty SOB that got him. "

Now we know where this guy stands - he who supports criminals should not have a gun :rolleyes:

LMAO! You are a true to life loser, leftover.

:bye:

[dongalt]

:wiggle:

[jeff brown]

...we all hope that if you do buy from them .that you get a nice gun from them.....no buger marks..or made from CLAY(SOFT STEEL)....i my self dont buy post ban guns for any thing but parts..i did pick one up(vepr) for the ..recvr.. for a RPK bild..looks grate!!!! any way if ya get a bad one ill give ya $325.00 for the recvr /bolt /bolt carrier.. and you can keep all the other parts off of it:D ......let me know .......jeff

[leftover]

Dong - what an apt name BTW

"just send it back in the three day eval period"

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to point out to us where this 3 day eval period is mentioned ?
:rolleyes:

[leftover]

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/showphoto.php?photo=1464&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500

[Hootbro]

:cool:

[jeff brown]

...................LOL............

[dongalt]

:wiggle:

[loandr.]

"these people all seem to be from NY in my limited expierence"

WOW....I guess limited, is the key word here :-) next time your in the big city remember to voice that opinion ...out loud and often!

me thinks the matter would then rectify itself, quickly :-)
Just my 'limited expierence" and .02
loandr.

[leftover]

For those of you who may have missed the info before, I will repeat. I did contact Robyou, and I received a response. Returning the rifle was NOT an option, as the reply from Alex Robinson (copied below) makes VERY CLEAR.

Hey, this is not a hunting rifle, it's a VEPR - if you don't want a crappy product, get a hunting rifle (that is the gist of Robinson's response anyway). His website promises great quality and good service - ha.
=============================================

Sorry that it took so long for us to get back to you. I personally reviewed the pictures you sent. Nothing on an AK is perfectly straight. Your front sight is well within the allowable range. In fact if you look closely at AK front sights you'll notice most are a little off.

We inspect the front sights of the VEPRs before we ship them. Sometimes the sights are off far more than yours and we reject those. However, your sight is way within the range of acceptability. In fact, it is not even close to being one we would reject.

It is extremely difficult to keep sights straight. From the looks of it, your sight is probably off 1 degree or less. It is extremely difficult to hold such tolerances. Ask any machinist who puts gas blocks or front sights on firearms.

If we sent you another rifle, we could not promise that it would be any better.

You bought an AK; not a hunting rifle. You need to keep this in mind. For the money you paid it is a great deal.

[AK-Joe]

"For those of you who may have missed the info before, I will repeat. I did contact Robyou, and I received a response. Returning the rifle was NOT an option, as the reply from Alex Robinson (copied below) makes VERY CLEAR"

Did you ever ask?

If you read the email it says that he can't promise that the next one would be any better.
I don't read where it says " replacement is not an option". and unless I missed it I don't remember you insisting they take it back.

I purchased 2 VEPR K's a 7.62 and a 5.45 and they are both fine and would highly recommend them to anyone wanting an AK/RPK type rifle.
I had no problems dealing with Robinson and never needed to contact Alex for any reason. I dealt directly with the sales staff and was treated very well.

If anyone is interested in the VEPR line of AK/RPK rifles, don't hesitate. They are very accurate, well made rifles. Yes, they are used for hunting but if you want a "hunting" rifle there are other rifles better suited for that. Even though the box says hunting rifle on it, how many real hunting rifles come with a 30 round mag?

[leftover]

Actually, yes I did ask. Here is my email that Alex was responding to.

And if they say that they can't promise that the next one would be any better that tells you one of two things:

1 They are all crap and they are not confident that they could find a good one in their entire inventory.

and/or

2 They are not prepared to check to see if they can find one better than that.

Either way, crap customer service by anyone's standards !

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just took delivery of a new VEPR K in 7.62x39. Not fired it yet. Front sight assmbley is canted to the left. I thought I could live with this, but every time I pick it up I find myself looking at it more and more. Looks worse than my $275 SAR 1 & SAR 2.

Can you guys fix this (correctly and permenantly) or will the rifle need to be replaced ?

Will you pay for return shipping ?

Look forward to hearing your comments

[jeff brown]

...if thay sell 5000 guns and take back 100 that will eat into ther money......so sell 1000 guns and take back... NONE!!! ...thats what thay shoot for......EVEN THE BOX TELLS YOU....I WOULD NOTE BUY FROM THEM AT ALL!!!!SO IS THE M 96 made of soft steel also????:D...i wounder if i can buy the crap guns for cheep...i would like to bild.a few more RPKs for sale.....and thay make a grate parts kit that shoots befor you put it together.....lol...:D ...ill buy them for $275.00 that is a good price for a box of parts...what do you guys think???:)...fair??

[bulm5]

Glad I found this thread, I won't be buying a VEPR for now. I am cosidering an AK USA AK 103 K.

Thanks,
Leftover

[leftover]

I think there must be quite a few VEPRs that we normal folks would describe as sub-standard or defective.

Since I bought mine I've browsed a few boards and found quite a few on the 'for sale' forums. Many are advertized as unfired or barely used. This suggests to me that many people are dissapointed with VEPR. Many people don't like to admit they got screwed - either for reasons of embarrassment, or because they don't want to devalue the product that they wanted so bad, but are now so eager to be rid of.

If Robyou really had confidence in their product they would advertize that they would take back defective ones and pay the shipping. If the product is really as good as they claim, then they can be confident that they won't be paying for much return shipping.

The profit margin on the VEPR must be high - look at the quality compared to a similarly priced browning A-Bolt or Remington 700 - leaves you wondering where the money is ! :eek:

[Otto Skorzeny]

Leftover AND Jeff Brown, I think you both should go buy an A-Bolt or a Rem 700 and go shit up their boards. We have all read your complaints and the consensus is YOU SHOULD HAVE RETURNED THE RIFLE. You assume that all of the people selling VEPR's are selling threm because they are junk? What about all the K98's
& Gew 98's, Galils, SAM's and all of the other rifles for sale? Are they junk too? I have several AK's among them Saiga, SAR1 & 2, CUR II, SA 85, MAK 90, Norinco Pre-ban, Romak III (psl) & 2 VEPR series rifles out of all of my AK's The VEPR's are the most accurate & have the best fit-n-finish. I think that the vast majority are great rifles and you got a turd (or you screwed it up & want to blame RA) Either way.......... GETOVER it LEFTOVER!

[leftover]

Hey Otto, the whole point is that I DID try to return the rifle. They just wouldn't have it.

I expect to get what I'm promised - if not the first time, at least some decent service and a replacement - I even said I'd be happy with a competent repair, but they weren't even prepared (or competent) to do that.

[jeff brown]

...IM SOO FED UP WITH SOME GUYS TALKEN SHIT ABOUT THINGS THAY HAVE NO CLUE!!!! ....FOR THE GUYS WHO KNOW ME .AND GO SHOOTING WITH ME..(and been in my war room..pet name).I KNOW THAY WILL BACK ME UP...HOW MANY NEW PREBAN GUNS DID YOU BUY LAST YEAR ...OTTO.????1 ..2.??..lol......JUST LAST MONTH I SPENT $3700.00...SPARKY!!!! HOW MANY HK21s DO YOU HAVE ANY???HOW MANY GALIL ARMs(preban) ???...mg 34s...(in semi auto)....have you ever had the hand gards GO POOF ..into FLAME!!!......hey.... otto..ya wana buy a sig 551...ill sell it to ya for $7500.00 ...so i can get another semi auto mg42..for my twin mt...in the back of my 1990 s10 4x4....:D ..i talk trash about trash......otto ..ill sell ya 10...bakelite .7.62x39 mags tula marked for $100 ea...THER SPAIRS i picked up in izzy land back in 1983..the PLO. guys i took them from did not need them any more!!!or have you shot at any thing but boxes and cans???...if you can show me that you have 5 hk 91s still in grate shape..(saco /and IB DATE codes.that you shoot).....or one s.f.a. G3a4 .1966 import .sear cut gun ......brad /kelly /tim .this guy has no CLUE??..im on a rant sorry .....oooo looky..im gona buy a vepr... for a parts gun......ROTFLMAO.........if you happy with a yugo..then be happy...I will use them for a parts kit....and i think leftover will not!!!use them at all......:) ......if a guy blows me off on a gun ill talk trash about his shit any time i like...i live in the USA and i have paid for the right to do so .. and not just in taxes......gosh im a ASS HOLE ........ :p ..........jeff brown

[Otto Skorzeny]

wish I could decipher what the hell you were tryin' to say
I'm glad you spend a lot of money on your guns (?) but I still stand behind my remarks as the VEPR's are by far the most accurate and nicest looking out of all my AK's I could really care less about you burning the handguards off of an MG34(?) how you accomplished that I'm not sure.

[jeff brown]

.....off of a ..RPK...a real RPK...THAY COOK. THEN.. POOF ...FLAME.: ITS A ..10 ..ON THE COOL LIST OF THINGS TO DO.....

[DaveN]

I was about to buy one of their Expeditionary rifles as soon as my refund check came in, if they allow canted front sights to pass inspection that scares me and yours is quite noticable...the thing that scares me more is they told you it was not even close to being rejected..I'm getting another NDM-86 with my refund...I'm glad you posted this, probably saved me a big headache..

Dave

[leftover]

The reason I posted this thread was for the benefit of others. Had things worked out well, then I would have been very pleased to have posted that too. These forums are not much good to us average Joes if all we get are good reviews.

If I save some people some grief, that's good news. If I cause Robyou some grief in the process, so be it, they are in business to EARN our money, not just trick us out of it.

FWIW I have had excellent service from other companies. CDNN, Brownells, Eagle Optics are all excellent. Just recently, my 6 month old Bushnell rangefinder broke down (fading display). Bushnell sent me a new in box one, no questions asked. These are all companies that I have no hesitation dealing with. I hope Arsenal are good too, because I will be buying a SA-M7 or similar soon.:cool:

[jeff brown]

......im with you LEFTOVER................:)

[dongalt]

:wiggle:

[leftover]

You talk crap Dong, you must have a safe full of junk that all those 'nice people' like Robyou sell to you:D

Dealers love suckers who believe their excuses.

Alex had ample opportunity to invite me to send back the defective goods - where was his offer ?. His bosom buddies who posted so much propaganda had ample opportuntity to buy the 'hard to get' VEPR at a discounted price - yet non of them backed up their hot air with an offer.

The people who've said they won't be buying a VEPR post only once for a reason; they have no time to waste on an inferior product and losers like you moaning about customers with genuine complaints.

I'm sure that Alex must really love you for bumping this one back to the top - don't suppose you work for Arsenal, do you ?

[dongalt]

:wiggle:

[leftover]

"Furthermore, he clearly was willing to take it back."


Show me the proof - I see evidence to the contrary. I ask for details of how to return the junk product, and all I get is a message telling me that it's well within specification, and that they sell worse - how is that an invitation to send it back ?

Looks like your English comprehension is as bad as your judgement.


I could just have sent the rifle back, and Robyou could have just refused to accept delivery, or just kept it - they'd already shown their credentials, so I didn't want to risk being out even more money.


The pictures speak for themselves.

I'm sure that Alex will want to thank you for bumping this one to the top yet again
:D

[StangMan]

I am new to these posts. I bought a VeprII 2 years ago, used it numerous times and really enjoy shooting it. After reading this post, I brought my Vepr out of the case and inspected it for the defects which leftover illustrated. I could not find any of these faults with my rifle. The only issue I have with my Vepr is that I dropped it in the woods last year while hunting and banged up the receiver cover. It was my own stupidity! To fix this, emailed Robinson Arms about a "new" receiver cover. A guy in the service dept. got right back with me. When I spoke to him on the phone, he told me that they only get a small allotment of parts from Russia and want to keep most on hand for warranty work. The Russians guarantee this rifle for 20,000 rounds so; they don't feel the need to supply additional parts. He also told me that he would check to see if he had any extra receiver covers. They did. I had a new receiver cover to my house in four days. I feel that this is excellent customer service!!! I am really glad I bought this rifle and not some of the other AK style rifles I looked at.

[Otto Skorzeny]

editied for civility

[jeff brown]

...otto ..you are the ass and always will be ..why dont you stick to your 1022 sks and SARs ....you have know clue and never will :asshole: :D

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by jeff brown
you have know clue and never will

...said jeff brown, resulting in a massive, unintentional release of toxic irony.

[jeff brown]

....i ment to spell it that way lol:p

[Otto Skorzeny]

editied for civility

[pinetop]

Lots of love here ! I'm going to add my two cents, Robinson's response should have been "I'm filling out a call tag ". Thats the way Arsenal USA responded when I had a problem. Its just good customer service.

[jeff brown]

otto your are a sissy and always will be ..if you grow up (we dont thinkyou will)..i would be glad to out shoot you any time even if i did win the SOF 3 GUN MATCH 1 ST PLACE 1 2ND PLACE IN A 5 YEAR TIME FRAME.....if you like we could do a ipsc speed shoot or ?? just pop some cans if ya like ..by the way RPK hand gards are made of plane old AK wood sparky and burn ....OK !!!.try this load up 10. 75 rd drums and run them in you SAR as fast as you can and tell us all what the out come is.:D

[Otto Skorzeny]

editied for civility

[AZSherman]

Thanks, Leftover. Let's hope this asshole who wishes he was a great German warrior from WWII keeps posting his stupid remarks and it will ensure your thread stays at the top for all to see and hopefully avoid Rob-Your-Ass Arms!!!!! And even if he stops, I will help keep this thread at the top until Rob-Your-Ass changes its stance toward those of us who give him our $$$$$!!!!

[jeff brown]

...otto you still have NO clue....we all know your the typ of guy who loves a .ruger p85/95 for a combat hand gun..:D the never never land I and many others walk in . is a place you can .never never get too .the small feeble mind with wich you have .is a thing for the special olympics.i'm sure you will be a big hit .and get the GOLD. YOU are a poster child for the same.guys who think thay know every thing by what thay read in the books they buy.in the book store!.
we all know how you got your eye boo boo .from the BB gun your gramy got you when you were 12 .




:rofl:

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by jeff brown
....i ment to spell it that way lol:p

I'm sure that was what you meant to say. It was why it was ironic.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Jeff you are so right I actually went into combat with a ruger MkII and a daisy red rider (Standard Navy issue). I'm nocking the dust off of my feet on this one.

[leftover]

Thanks AZSherman, you're absolutely correct !

Otto must really hate Alex Robinson to give him all this adverse publicity.

Otto's posts scream "hey, I'm an idiot, and I say VEPRs are great, so go buy one buddy"

Very good for sales, I'm sure :rolleyes:

I'm a compassionate type of person, so I don't hate Alex Robinson or Otto - just pity them :(

[ET2SS]

I just have to say THANK YOU to leftover. I have been lurking here for a while now because I was interested in getting a Russian AK. After seeing LEFTOVER's posts about Robinson Arms and his persistence in slamming them, I did more homework down on the Robarms: VEPR forum. After seeing some objective opinions, I wanted to check one out for myself. Boy am I glad I did! It was the nicest AK that I have seen, even nicer than my SA M-7. The saiga that the dealer also had couldn't hold a candle to the finish of the VEPR. So last weekend I took the risk and picked it up and it is reliable, accurate and the stock is the most comfortable I have felt on any AK. Plus the hand guard does not heat up like other AK's under sustained fire. If it weren't for this thread I probably would have ended up with a "Geo" but now I have a "Cadillac" and couldn't be happier. THANKS LEFTOVER!

[jeff brown]

...1st post ...lol.... good one...and good luck........:p

[leftover]

Nice try at damage limitation Alex :rolleyes:

[jeff brown]

...........BBBAAADDDDAA BOOM BAAADDAA BING.........:D

[ET2SS]

No I am not Alex, and this has nothing to do with DC. I read your complaints, then read the MANY good reviews down on the VEPR forum. I liked what I had read about the VEPR. Actually the only complaints I saw were your's and one other poster who was not pleased with the fact that he ruined the finish around the barrel with a heavy solvent. I wanted to see the rifle in person and am glad I did. I think it is an outstanding rifle and am actually going to have the shop order me in one in .308. If it shows up with canted sights and a scratched up receiver I will do the smart thing and refuse it & have it returned immediately for one that is acceptable. It's not rocket science.

[jeff brown]

...IT'S STILL PAID FOR BEFOR THAY SEND IT TO YOUR FFL DEALER..SO WE HOPE THAY DONT FU@$ YOU LIKE THAY DID LEFTOVER :D im sorry did i say that?? i gess i did...:D

[leftover]

Gulp

[leftover]

Ah, yes, the VEPR Forum, now there's objectivity and imartiality for you - research a product on a Forum moderated by the manufacturer, very logical:rolleyes:

Point is that you will see only good reviews down on the VEPR Forum because that's all they allow you to post down there. My original grumbles are long since deleted.

Step back; take a broader look around the internet, and you'll find plenty of privately owned NIB VEPR rifles for sale. The sellers likely won't admit it, but they were dissapointed.

90% or more of VEPR rifles may be fantastic, but if I get one of the 10% ers, then I expect to at least get decent service (these are not cheap rifles).

[ET2SS]

Today I went back to the shop to order in a .308 VEPR 2, and he was unpacking a shipment of them but they were in the AK-74 round (5.45mm). He showed me the recent shotgun news article on the .223cal vs. the 5.45mm. I decided if it was good enough for the Russians, it was even better for me. So I brought one home. It has the muzzle brake and in perfect condition (some would make it seem as though this were a rarity but out of the 3 rifles that he had, they all looked good). If this shoots as well as my 7.62mm I will be in Hog-Heaven. Now I just need my tax return to get the .308! Can anyone tell me a cheap source for the 5.45 ammo? The shop only had a few boxes of it left.

[leftover]

I got 1000 Wolf 5.45x39 from Centerfire Systems for $99 shipped. All I need now is a rifle to shoot them in.

5.45 is becoming more popular, so you might want to try ammunitionstore.com and Cheaper Than Dirt and see if they have any. A few weeks ago Centerfire had the best deal though.

Congratulations on finding 3 good VEPRs; perhaps somebody at RobYou is now doing a little QC !

Hell, I could even be tempted to get a 5.45 VEPR myself, but with my luck I'd probably land another lemon. :(

[ET2SS]

All the 5.45 I call on is hollow point. Does anyone have the FMJ with the hollow air space?

[leftover]

I seen mention of the fmj hollow stuff a few weeks ago - possibly on the ammo forum here. Do a search and see what you come up with.

There are so many ammo suppliers that it can take time to get what you want if it's a relatively rare caliber like this.

[other new guy]

Leftover- Do you still have the rifle. You may have gotten rid of it already, but I didn't have time to go through 100 posts to see. If you do, I may be interested in buying it from you, depending on functionality and caliber. I have sent you a PM as well, but you could also reply here if you like. The slight cosmetic flaws wouldn't really bother me all that much as long as the sights will zero, and as long as the rifle works properly.
Like I said, I am interested.
LMK.

[leftover]

Sorry ONG. it's long gone

[jeff brown]

but you can get one just like it...LOL:D

[leftover]

"but you can get one just like it"

If yer lucky. Alex Robinson says that mine was better than most :eek:

And he should know, he imports em !

I've ordered a SAM7 and am awaiting delivery

[second amendment]

keep us posted on the sam 7

[leftover]

Received SAM7 and it looked very well made BUT the front sight was canted. I decided to live with it and shoot it. Groups were good but I had to drift the front sight way over to the right to get on paper. With the front sight all the way to the right it still shot 5" off at 100yds.

I contacted Arsenal and they asked me to ship it back. Took about four weeks to return it to me. I have not shot it since return, but it looks better, so should work OK. I am out the $22 shipping though.

I have since acquired a second VEPR K - with straight sight, mag well etc. This one shoots good - and ergonomics are great.

I like the VEPR and the Arsenal, both well made accurate rifles. Arsenal offer pretty good after sales service, Robinson just give you crap. Also, if you ever need VEPR parts you could be stuck.

Pros and cons to all things in life. :(

[Ian]

I have a Vepr K .223 and a Vepr II .223. I have been very happy with them and with the customer service from Robinson Armaments. (And no, I am not Alex.) In fact, I love my Veprs so much that I'm ordering a customized Vepr K 7.62 from Krebs.

I did have a small, intermittent problem with my Vepr K's trigger and contacted RA about. They worked with me over the phone and by email to diagnose it. It turned out that this Vepr had an older version of an RA disconnector that sometimes got caught on the hammer spring leg. They sent me a new trigger group, which included the current FSE disconnector, at no charge; I just had to return the old one.

I understand that some customers can have a bad experience with a company that everyone else raves about. I've been one them too many times. However for me, Robinson Armaments has been one of the best companies I've delt with.

Regards,
Ian

[AK-Joe]

Originally posted by leftover
Received SAM7 and it looked very well made BUT the front sight was canted. I decided to live with it and shoot it. Groups were good but I had to drift the front sight way over to the right to get on paper. With the front sight all the way to the right it still shot 5" off at 100yds.

I contacted Arsenal and they asked me to ship it back. Took about four weeks to return it to me. I have not shot it since return, but it looks better, so should work OK. I am out the $22 shipping though.

I have since acquired a second VEPR K - with straight sight, mag well etc. This one shoots good - and ergonomics are great.

I like the VEPR and the Arsenal, both well made accurate rifles. Arsenal offer pretty good after sales service, Robinson just give you crap. Also, if you ever need VEPR parts you could be stuck.

Pros and cons to all things in life. :(

Wow, after all that namecalling (Robyou, Alex and his bum chums were called cunts and brown nosers) and vowing to never buy another Robinson product or give him another dollar you go out and buy another VEPR. AND LIKE IT!

Thats amazing!

[ZOID ZODIAN]

(Nevermind: I don't want to join this sh*t storm after all).:D

[Bart]

Austin TX - I just found this post yesterday and was a bit spooked as my VEPR K was due any day. I picked it up today (blew off work as soon as my FFL called), headed straight for the range and came to one conclusion.

This rifle is awesome. I gave it a THOROUGH inspection before leaving the FFL shop (see Robarms policy) and was very impressed with the quality, finish and alignments. I got very nice groups at 100m with only adjusting the elevation! This gun is a beast and worth every penny. Would I deal again with RobArms? Definately.

I even confessed the purchase to my wife so I can play with it around the house instead of hiding it. This gun will put more than one deer on my table this year and maybe more.

[leftover]

Thats right AK-Joe. I always said that the product was fundamentally OK, just that the service sucked.

A lot of people who purchased VEPRs around the same time I got the first one had problems with the canted front sight. Probably just a bad batch. Let's hope the Ruskies keep em good from now on.

While I'm not overjoyed about giving a bad company business, I really didn't want to miss out on the fun. I'll probably be too old to shoot by the time another distributor gets VEPR - or, more likely, they will be banned altogether.

I think the SAM7 is a better product overall, but the VEPR has a big redeaming feature - the ergonomics are great (I guess Robinson made a good job on the furniture)

Bottom line is that I'm happy with VEPR K the second, still don't rate the company though.

I note from Ian's post that Robarms were very eager to get the defective part back - probably to avoid potential litigation problems should an unfortunate user have an accident with a similar gun.

[bkean]

I owned an M96 from Rob-Arms. It was OK - but sold it for an AR .50 beowulf setup. I bought a SAR-1 and had AZEX install the RSA trigger group and new furniture and parcoat it (refinish). I spent maybe $50 more than the VEPR but I am one happy camper with the AK setup. You can buy the SAR and gradually upgrade and end up with a real sweat setup.

[leftover]

I like AR15 rifles, but like most things they have their shortcomings, such as extractor, ejector, and most significantly -the weak magazines.

I was surprised to see that Robarms used standard M16 mags in their M96 rilfe design. Great potential for improvement lost on that one. :confused:

[jonnyswift]

Just to throw my two cents in , send that rifle to Krebs custom and I'll be my whole collection that you will recieve a painjob 10 times better , no matter how close you look !

[Highpower]

As a relatively new Vepr-k owner I felt obligated to reply to this post.

I own a number of different "evil combat type rifles, ECTRs". For the type of riifle that that Vepr-k is, I have to say I am totally impressed. But it has turned my old dillemma into an only more complicated dilemma.

If I had to bring a single rifle with me what would it be:

It used to be a toss-up between my Hk-93 and my M-4 with ACOG. I used to include my M1A, but I think my M1A is situation specific (i.e. open battlefield where 300-600 yard shots are common). In the reject pile are a number of FAL, AK, and AR variants. NOT to say that these are bad rifles - just if I HAD to pick one. IMO

Well my new VEPR-k looks to be right in there with the HK and M4. There is no denying that this is an awesome weapon. Note that it is also 0.4x the price of my M-4, and 0.2x what my HK is worth.

The heavy reciever and short heavy barrell makes it. The range report is nearly identical to the two above rifles, only it is heavier than the M-4, but it is as reliable as the HK. Also equal in rapid fire control to the .223 HK and more controllable than the M-4, even in 7.62 (note that I have the muzzle brake). And I like the KOBRA sight almost as much as the Aimpoint on my HK (although it took some getting used too).

Ignore any pissed off loser that doesn't like the texture of the paint or the angle of the white lettering. This is a person that doesn't shoot his rifle. This is someone who mounts it on a display stand (god knows why, they are all ugly to look at). And as a point of interest, I have bought many ARs with slightly canted front sights.

Bottom line: VEPR-k - you won't regret it - especially in 7.62 with muzzle brake and KOBRA sight.

:D :D :D

IMHO

[Mayo]

I've got to stand on principled ground here guys, or I won't be able to live with myself.

1st, for context, I bought a VEPR II 7.62 nearly two weeks ago and am totally satisfied.

That being said, I have to agree with the the original poster here.

I would not be happy at all if my new VEPR looked like his, especially given the canted front sight.

Now, I can't speak to Robinson Arms or Alex Robinson's response, but IF everything is as reported, I would have hope dthey would simply have offered to ship him a replacement rifle or refund his money. I understand he has since sold it, private sale.

By doing so, Robinson Arms would only have done their reputation and future growth prospects a service.

As far as this only being a $500+ rifle, that is not the point (and $500+ is not chump change despite their being rifles costing more) . VEPR holds itself out as the benchmark production standard in its class, and if wants to credibly maintain that image or reputation, the tool marks, surface imperfections and front sights depicted are not acceptable.

As I've stated, I am completely happy with my new VEPR, although I haven't had chance to give it a thorough work out yet.

But Robinson Arms shouldn't have argued with this bloke, if everything was as he proclaims, and if those pictures were unadulterated.

And that's my humble opinion.

[Lynch]

If all of you could only see the multiple threads from the old forum.

Short answer... no... all is not as it has been stated by leftover and it is now past time to set the record straight, yet again.

The long and the short of it...

Robarms has a return policy... inspect the rifle while at your FFL's location. If the rifle does not meet your expectations in ANY way, Robarms will eat the return minus shipping, no questions asked... as evidensed below.

Right of Inspection

We think products actually look better than they do on our website and in our advertisements. We're very confident that you'll love our products. We also realize that it's very difficult to make the decision to purchase a product sight unseen. Therefore, we grant each purchaser ,who orders directly from us, the right to inspect our firearms upon delivery at the FFL Dealer's premises. Should the firearm not be to your satisfaction, you may return it to us immediately unused for a full refund less the shipping charges.

This policy protects the buyer, just as much as it protects Robarms from Joe amatuer gunsmith who accidentally dropped or bubadized his fancy new rifle and claims to want a free refund/exchange on a rifle the was purportedly "never" touched.

Franlky, as return policies go, it ain't too shabby considering it offers responsible consumers a no questions asked inspection, while at the same time, preventing Robarms customer service respresentatives from having to enlist the help of psychics to judge the validity of each individual return. Robarms does't take an unjust bath on unwarranted product returns, estute customers are offered a no questions asked redress of grievances.

In leftover's case... it went like this...

Lefty doesn't take it upon himself to properly inspect the rifle at his FFLs premesis. Personal resonsibility is alien to him... unless of couse, it's someone else's personal responsibility.

Instead he takes it straight home.

He drops it, gets buyers remorse, finally notices the, as he stated himself, blantantly obvious problems - whatever.

Lefty sends Robarms an email requesting a redress of his grievances.

After 2 days or so pass with no response... which Robarms is admittedly unfortunately infamous for, a fact which leftover is apprised of by myself and other board members... leftover, put's up some kind of belly aching tirade in the Review forum... oh, incidentally, within which he personally insults Alex Robinson by calling Alex a "cunt" and trashing his product.

Leftover is advised by numerous members to simply pick up the phone and call Robarms.

Instead, he elects to procreate links to the Review thread throughout other forums... in an attempt to "pressure" Robarms.

He then claims this is the only reason he even got an email response from them... 'course, failing to mention that if this is indeed the case, Alex has already noted that he is being publicly burned at the stake and in fact called a "cunt" by said lefty.

leftover then does not receive a satisfactory response from Alex, admittedly, a weak response... but hey, I don't fancy folks calling me a cunt and trashing my products before I have been given an opportunity to address the problem either... call me old fashioned.

leftover then continues to promulgate half truths concerning the whole event... and of couse selectively leaves out certain details and their place in the timeline.

Which brings us to where we are now... where guys like myself who witnessed the whole damn fiasco, have sworn off of putting more fuel on the fire in the hopes that this issue would be put to bed... seems a certain individual had to post one more thread when the forum moved... I've been waiting for it to age off... maybe now it will.

One can only hope... this asshole doesn't deserve our attention gentlemen.

Respecfully,
Lynch

[Mayo]

Lynch,

Thanks for taking the time to clear that and my misunderstandings up.

Leftover, I have some humble, friendly and free advice for future reference, regardless of how you feel you've been "persecuted" (and I think Lynch has established YOU sat on your hands, actually) - it's never a good idea to refer to someone as a "cunt."

[HDR]

I own one and I've seen a few others. All the one's I've seen are well made. So far, the only rough looking Vepr was laying on the table at the Fayetteville Gun show..

The table had a scratched up M1A also.. Some sellers are slobs.

Therefore, we grant each purchaser ,who orders directly from us, the right to inspect our firearms upon delivery at the FFL Dealer's premises. Should the firearm not be to your satisfaction, you may return it to us immediately unused for a full refund less the shipping charges.

That's pretty clear..

Lefty doesn't take it upon himself to properly inspect the rifle at his FFLs premesis. Personal resonsibility is alien to him... unless of couse, it's someone else's personal responsibility.

And so is that.

So which was it, you bought it without looking at it or you paid for it without looking at it..

I look at a firearm before I buy it.
Hell I even look when I am buying produce at the grocery store before I buy it...

Its shame on you, leftover..

[leftover]

OK, I'll say it

Lynch - YOU ARE A LYING CUNT

I never dropped my rifle, I never altered timelines - you are the only one fabricating stories around here.

Everything I reported was true.

The Robarms policy is effectivly saying that if you don't see a defect at the dealer, then you've got no chance of getting it fixed later. What kind of policy is that ?

What if the defect was internal, such as the barrel, or a firing pin defect - would they still say that you should have inspected it ?

If Ford offered the same great warranty on their products would you consider it a good deal ?

When you read the hype on Robarms website, and this forum, you don't expect to have to look for defects.

Robarms policy gives them the ability to ship out any crap until someone is rushed enough to accept it. The buyer pays for return shipping, so all it cost Robarms is a little shipping to 'try their luck'. You'll find plenty of defective VEPRs out there from the same batch as my first one. Some of us just got unlucky.

You talk nonsense boy

[Lynch]

"What if the defect was internal, such as the barrel, or a firing pin defect - would they still say that you should have inspected it ?"

Hmmmm... my guess... as long as you call them prior to suggesting that the owner of the company is an "absolute cunt", and prior to burning him, his product, and his company at the stake on a public forum... well... I'd say... judging from how they have handled situations identical to the hypotheticals you stated above... they'd make it right.

As evidenced by the fact that yours is... I believe... the only thread I have ever seen berating their customer service for anything other than email response time.

"If Ford offered the same great warranty on their products would you consider it a good deal ?"

Cars... guns... apples and oranges.

"When you read the hype on Robarms website, and this forum, you don't expect to have to look for defects."

Yeah... and when you go to Vulcan Arms website, formerly Hesse, you don't expect JB weld and bubble gum holding your receiver together either. Point... show me a vendor that doesn't market their product to be high quality, the best, or the best value. Bottom line... no excuse for not doing even a cursory evaluation... which would surely have identified the obvious structural/cosmetic flaws you have been touting so vehemently... no?

"Robarms policy gives them the ability to ship out any crap until someone is rushed enough to accept it. The buyer pays for return shipping, so all it cost Robarms is a little shipping to 'try their luck'."

Folks have the ability to do a lot of things... prove any of that actually occurs... and I'll respond accordingly, I assure you.

"You'll find plenty of defective VEPRs out there from the same batch as my first one. Some of us just got unlucky."

Really...? That weren't made right...? Funny... I don't recall seeing any other threads such as this.

"lying"... "boy"

Please... go home, you're wasting my time and everyone else's.

:bye:

Lynch

[boondocksaint]

I agree with Lynch 100%
Leftover is just likes to complain.

I would also like to state something that no one else has picked up on, as far as I can tell.

Mr leftover posted a picture of his 'canted' site, but if you look closely there is no point of reference. For all we know he could have purposely tilted the gun and taken the picture so that the site appears canted. His picture has zero credibility without a point of reference. All we see is the end of the barrel. We do not have anyway of knowing whether or not the gun was lined up straight.

Your picture is not credible therefore your argument is childish.

[gordonm1]

Robinson Arm's guarantee amounts to nothing. If you don't find what is wrong before you you pay you are on your own. They were so cheap about honroring my order through FAC they never bothered to send the gun for inspection. I had to drive accross my state to find a gun in stock even though I have been waiting three months for an order. This is DEFINATELY A BUYER BEWARE SITUIATION. Otherwise, I have heard they are nice rifles. You are on your own....

[Ian]

I just picked up a new Vepr K 7.62x39 with a muzzle brake from my FFL tonight for $550 plus $26 shipping from Robinson Arms. It came in two weeks after ordering it. I field stripped it at the counter and gave it a reasonable inspection. There was no canted front sight, no visible scratches, and the lettering was clean. The bolt functioned smoothly and the trigger was smoooooooth! In other words looked great!

It now joins my Vepr II .223 and Vepr K 223. I can't wait to try it out with my Bulgarian waffles over the weekend.

Regards,
Ian

[Lynch]

Originally posted by gordonm1
Robinson Arm's guarantee amounts to nothing. If you don't find what is wrong before you you pay you are on your own. They were so cheap about honroring my order through FAC they never bothered to send the gun for inspection. I had to drive accross my state to find a gun in stock even though I have been waiting three months for an order. This is DEFINATELY A BUYER BEWARE SITUIATION. Otherwise, I have heard they are nice rifles. You are on your own....

Really... did you report a warranted problem to them concerning your VEPR and were given the cold shoulder? Can you substantiate that claim that I am "on my own"?

If so, I'd like to hear more about it since there aren't any competent smiths that I am aware of in my area... there are so few reported instances of this... well... really only one I can think of off hand.

Delays... they are notorious for them... I waited nearly 6 months for my direct order to be filled... I know some who waited almost a year, I believe... what's worse is they kept giving me an ETA that was moved again and again... 'course, could be the fact that they are dealing with the Russians and customs.

Are you positive that your delay was due to Robarms specifically, rather than FAC? I have noted a number of direct orders which have been filled as of late in relatively short order.

Respectfully,
Lynch

[boondocksaint]

Robinson Arm's guarantee amounts to nothing....They were so cheap about honroring my order through FAC they never bothered to send the gun for inspection.

It is blatantly obvious that you did not call Robinson Armament. BIG MISTAKE. In fact it is the same mistake that leftover made until it was too late.

If you had contacted Robinson Armament they would have explained to you, like they did to my buddy, why FAC does not have VEPRs. Why don't you build up the guts and try, just to see what happens? Maybe leftovers scary stories of bad customer service have influenced you too much.

I am not going to say why FAC does not have VEPRs because I want to see if you will actually take the initiative to call them.

[gordonm1]

I called several times and they told me nothing except FAC will eventually get the guns.(NEXT SHIPMENT MAYBE?) possibly months away.

I just drove almost 400 miles to buy one of two left at a store south of Seattle WA. I got a 7.62 carbine and its nice. I burned up a day of my life, $30 gas, tires, oil and and additional $70 over my quoted order price almost four months ago.

I'm pissed, and now I'm pissed at you too smartass. The least you could to is tell what the freakin problem with FAC orders is?

[gordonm1]

Additionally, The seller said he had received two orders placed in September after my order in July. Doesn't sound like there was any interest in getting me my gun. The seller called while I was there and said there he was told there are no more available 7.62 carbine rifles and said he was able to order two in .223. Sounds like the first shipment was spirited away without filling my order.

[leftover]

And for the eyeless bonehead who thinks that there is no point of reference in my cant pic. Look again; the front swivel stud is visible at the bottom of the pic.

Now, import the pic into your photo software and draw a straight line from the center of the swivel stud through the center of the bore and.........oh my oh my, would you believe it, the entire front sight base is canted to the left (right in pic)

You are the kind of person for whom the Robinson 'guarantee' is worthless, because even if you did look it over, you have no idea what to look for anyway.

I suppose you think that I filed out the mag well just to make it look bad eh.

:rolleyes:

[argwarrior]

Shit, that rifle looks a lot better than my Romak.

The canted sight, I can understand frustration with, but the rest of it seems to be digging.

[leftover]

I think the way-off-center mag well was a bad fault too - it potentially detracts from the strength of the receiver, and overall reliability.

If the mag well and sight were OK I would not have complained at all. My guns get a bunch of cosmetic defects in the field and in the safe, BUT as I was complaining ............:D

[ppro]

All this is interesting about the VEPR

I did buy a SUPER VEPR from Robinson.......superb gun....beautiful and a super shooter.

I have three SAIGA'S and one SAR-1 and I have to say, that the Saiga's I have gotten are very very nice ....dollar not withstanding. Non of type of conditions noted on the VEPR you mention.

So.......I guess the Saiga's are pretty dollar wise.

Sorry to hear about your VEPR........that would be disappointing.

Can you ship it back and exchange Alex for another??? Normally reputable gun companies have a so many day acceptance policy and considering the condition........I would return it and have them ship another.....who knows....could end up with a nicer one.

Paul

[Ian]

Originally posted by ppro
Can you ship it back and exchange Alex for another??? Normally reputable gun companies have a so many day acceptance policy and considering the condition........I would return it and have them ship another.....who knows....could end up with a nicer one.

Paul
Paul,

If you had the time, energy and stamina to read this entire thread, you would've realized that this reasonable and intelligent recommendation has be tried, tested, rejected, abused, misused, blah, blah-blah, blah-bah...

The bottom line is that no satisfaction can be achieved by any of the parties at this point. Please don't take this as slight to you; I just wish this thread would die.
:deadhorse

I hope you enjoy your Vepr as well as I enjoy all of mine! :D

Regards,
Ian

[Alex Robinson]

I have not been to this forum for a very long time. I find it very amusing that Leftover has made it his life's calling to belittle the VEPR. If I didn't know better, I'd say that he worked for one of my competitors.

When I post, I post using my own name. I want to thank all of you who have supported the VEPR project.

Leftover needs to move on in life. He should note that I have not read his comments until today and I must say that his comments have not hurt my business one bit. I guess that says a lot about his credibility. Lefty could have had the rifle sent back for a different rifle at the beginning or his money back at the beginning. But it was not until it was a used rifle that he started complaining.

I also want to thank the gentleman who posted the Right of Inspection language from our website on this thread. If anyone opens the box and doesn't like what he gets, he can ship it back and we'll refund the money we received less shipping charges.

We are in the process of redoing out website. We have purchased the domain www.ak47.com and will be building a new site devoted soley to AKs, VEPRs and the like.

We have almost all models of VEPRs in stock. Because we want our customers completely satisfied, we are making the following offer:

If for any reason you are not satisfied with your purchase, you may return it for a full refund of the purchase price provided that you return the rifle to us in the same condition and do so within 20 days the date it was shipped to you.

We have to word things like this or someone will go out and really use the product and when his wife finds out he spent the paycheck without her permission, he ships the rifle back used.

99 percent of our customers feel the VEPR is the best AK for the money. They are not perfect but they are the best AK for the money. Buy one and you will see.

Sincerely,

Alex J. Robinson

[Lynch]

Alex,

No sweat... as I stated above... it became a moral imperative.

Best regards,
Lynch

[leftover]

Posted by Alex Robinson

"Lefty could have had the rifle sent back for a different rifle at the beginning or his money back at the beginning. But it was not until it was a used rifle that he started complaining. "

Well Alex, you are either lying, or you have a very bad memory. I made it clear all along that the rifle was new and unfired - if it was considered to be in used condition, then it must have been supplied that way. I had the rifle only a few days when I complained. No offer of remedial work or a refund to me.

I sold the rifle in unfired condition.

I will say that I have since acquired another VEPR, and I am very happy with it. I have no problem with the product, everyone turns out a lemon once in a while. I do have a problem with the response I received when I made a legitimate complaint, and the way that you are now misrepresenting the situation.

You still have time to repent. Are you lying, or are you mistaken ? If the latter I can forgive you, if the former, well that would not be a surprise to me.

Are you going to continue to stick with the story posted in your latest message, or are you going to come clean ? Your choice; show the people that you have some integrity.

[gordonm1]

MR. Robinson states most rifles are in stock. Have they filled all FAC orders? If so, why were so many later orders filled months after my order was placed with FAC in July? Why did I have to wait so long for my FAC order that I paid an extra $70 dollars to from a retail outfit to get a rifle from the September delivery?

No one has explained why the FAC orders were taking so much longer than others.

I might want to place a new order through FAC if I can be assured it will be filled in a timely manner this time.

[Highpower]

Don't worry Mr. Robinson. You have the best product out there and deserve credit for it.

Hey do a get a discount on a Super Vepr for the kind word. Come on of course I do right ? ...

:D

[ppro]

Hey Alex

I tried to call you today but you were tied up...I AM ORDERING ANOTHER VEPR.

I know you don't stock the longer barrel version of the VEPR

But.....would you get some of them in if there was enough expressed interest?

Better sight radius better velocity.....speaking mainly of the .308

Paul Prochko

[gordonm1]

Good luck on your discount Highpower. That's what I was expecting when I ordered through FAC and a FFL I have a long history with.

As for your signature quote, Mr. Jessup sounds like a mecenary who does not have to worry about who is paying his rent(the amercan taxpayer).

[boondocksaint]

gordonm1

you still have not tried to contact Robinson . I am not going to post on this site what happened and what Robinson has told me. I called and already had a good idea as to why FAC did not have VEPRs. The people at Robinson just confirmed it and helped me understand a little better. It is not an issue of guns being in stock. They have plenty of guns either in stock or on their way. Get on the phone gm1 talk to people and get some answers instead of relying on a post to get information that is shoddy and does not even come from the source.

Alex
I commend you greatly for having the balls to come on this forum and blatantly state who you are and what you represent. The initiative that you have taken is commendable.

You have a great product and I do not think that Leftover has any credibility any longer. He did not go about this the right way. I have dealt with your company directly and I would say that your staff has some of the best customer service that I have seen.

No, this is not for a discount. I don't need one. I will pay the dollars it takes. A good product and a good company will always get my support.

Keep up the good work Alex and thank you for the honesty.

boondock saint

[leftover]

Well, for the sophistocated intellectuals who think that I have no credibility, here is the initial response that I received from Robarms BEFORE they even seen the pics and AFTER I informed them that I'd had the rifle only a day and it was new, unfired, in the box.

"I can't take your rifle back with the front sight being off to the left like you say it is"

And after they seen the pics

"Your front sight is well within the allowable range...
We inspect the front sights of the VEPRs before we ship them. Sometimes the sights are off far more than yours and we reject those. However, your sight is way within the range of acceptability. In fact, it is not even close to being one we would reject....

If we sent you another rifle, we could not promise that it would be any better. "

And

"had you shown me that the front sight had to be moved all
the way to one side and it still wasn't sighted, I'd be understanding and have you send the rifle back."

Note that I was not asking for a refund or a replacement. All I asked was that the sight be straightened. The fabulous Robarms warranty that I was offered is far less generous than the one being offered at this point in time - note from the above that the only time you got anything done back in those days was when your sight was so crooked that you could not get on target when it was moved all the way to one side.

Note also that there are far worse ones than mine out there - by Robarms own admission.

All those commenting here can be grateful that they got good ones (assuming they have the knowledege and ability to distinguish good from bad). Thankfully most VEPRs are good, but there are some which are not, and some which are even worse than the one I got (or so Robarms will tell you)

Food for thought.

P.S.
And note also that I initially started only one thread on this isssue - in the reviews section. The board admin decided to replicate it in the Robarms Forum (now VEPR Forum). With friends like that, who needs enemies, eh Alex.

[Highpower]

Originally posted by gordonm1
Good luck on your discount Highpower. That's what I was expecting when I ordered through FAC and a FFL I have a long history with.

As for your signature quote, Mr. Jessup sounds like a mecenary who does not have to worry about who is paying his rent(the amercan taxpayer).

People who whine too much = People who don't appreciate our military

Makes sense to me.

[gordonm1]

What a waste of bandwidth Highpower. Might as well take the "fifth".

[valis]

This bullshit thread needs to give up the ghost. Gordon, why do you have such a hard-on to buy through FAC and then an FFL? Why not get Robarms....who has rifles evidently....to ship one to your FFL, thus bypassing FAC....who has no rifles? I like FAC too, but if they don't have the loot, they don't have the loot. DIE THREAD, DIE!

[Hootbro]

DIE THREAD, DIE!

Yes, someone please drive the wooden stake through it for the love of god and all things holy. :p

[Lynch]

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/12578killit.JPG

All you had to do was ask...

;)
Lynch

[Hootbro]

Originally posted by Lynch


All you had to do was ask...

;)
Lynch

Thanks, that made my day. :up:

[leftover]

Wow, Lynch managed to get his head out of Alex Robinson's anus long enough to make a post.

What a pity :rolleyes:

[Hamburger]

Originally posted by leftover
Wow, Lynch managed to get his head out of Alex Robinson's anus long enough to make a post.

What a pity :rolleyes:

BTT, eh?

:rolleyes:

[leftover]

Yeah, seems that I'm not allowed to post in any other threads, so this is it for me.

[gordonm1]

Maybe you are a "leftover"?

I am looking forward to others importing this line of rifle in the future.

Happy Holidays

[Hamburger]

Originally posted by leftover
Yeah, seems that I'm not allowed to post in any other threads, so this is it for me.

uh... that's tough... maybe you should have kept this sad topic in THIS thread?

apart from your steady ranting about that incident, you seem to be a normal fellow vepr owner .... (EDIT)

edit: i just read your latest posts in the "308 accuracy" thread... forget what i said about being normal...

just get over it.

[Lynch]

Gentlemen,

Telling, isn't it?

Lynch

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by Lynch
Gentlemen,

Telling, isn't it?

Lynch

Very. Every area has to have a Fred.

[HDR]

Originally posted by leftover
In response to the polite requests from Bowhunter,

The man's screen name is Bowhunt and he happens to be my friend.

This Forum doesn't have a mod, but leftover, now you have me.

Go ahead, push back..

[HDR]

leftover
You have more common sense than many guessed.

[leftover]

asshole

[harm152]

I have only followed this discussion a little, but I did find it useful in my recent purchase of an AK. Originally, after visiting a local store here in the Salt Lake area, the dealer highly reccomended a VEPR. I did some research and agreed that this seemed to be the best gun for the $$$. This was last January. I put down a deposit and waited four months. After 4 months I got a little tired of waiting and would have rather been shooting, also the whole Russian thing and them not supporting the War in Iraq was going on, so I pulled my deposit and bought an Armalite....
Recently, I got the urge again for an AK, I also still have all the ammo I bought while waiting for the order. I called the dealer and the same situation, No VEPRs and no idea how long it would take for them to become available. As I contemplated waiting or buying one used, I came across this thread.
After careful consideration, I decided on the Arsenal SAM-7. I think the guys at Robarms are great from some calls I have made to them, but I have seen numerous remarks about the VEPRs front sight issue and have yet to see a complaint or at least a heated complaint about an arsenal. The big thing being that I am waiting for a rifel to come in mail order, and I have less faith that a VEPR would be what I was looking for since I can't hold it in the shop before I drop my money..... So, for taking a leap of faith with my cash, I chose arsenal, I have heard / read good things about their precision fit / finish process and QC when factory sighting is done....
What strikes me as Ironic is that as American buyers, we put a premium on accuracy, even on a weapon whose battle doctrine was pretty much fire from the hip and spray and pray. I saw that on some old History Channel videos.... Anyways, just my 2 cents. I think the guys at Robarms are possibly more concerned with the new 6.8mm REM SPC round that is supposed to replace the 5.56mm NATO (potentially) I bet they have their time and effort in that project and rightfully so, benefits our soldiers and offers a much greater payback on their investments in the long run if they can grab a contract or two here and there....
Merry Christmas everyone!