How would they take our guns?

[sLap]

Just something to think about. Your door bell rings a guy tells you to give him your guns you tell him to wait you'll go get them next thing he hears is the safty from your AK. Think he'll wait for you to come back to the door? Maybe they will want us to come to the courthouse to turn them in with 1000,s of armed people standing in line who would give up frist? I don't see how it could ever be done.

[56s]

Hello sLap,
What a scary topic that has been on the minds of a lot of us for years. You would not have time to go and get your weapon because the men in black would knock your door down and then throw in some flash bangs. Any resitance would be grave to say the least.
If the day comes to a total ban on private ownership of guns it will be called the new Civil War and the end of the American dream bud.
This is not Australia or some other country that does not have a god given right to own guns.
People that think it can never happen here are just kidding themselves. This is why we must always stand up for what we belive in and never allow a Police state to become reality in our country. I do not belive that we as Americans will just turn over our rights without a VERY GOOD REASON. I am hopefull that our Police and our Armed Forces would not obey their orders to disarm law abiding Americans if the need should arise.
For anyone who thinks that America would be a safer place to live without guns is just kidding themselves. It would be a great place for our Goverment to control it's people but it would also be a haven for all the garbage that already exists in our society. We have created the country that we have now and taking away guns would be a place that I would not want to live in.
Scary thought man! OUT

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56s-2

[This message has been edited by 56s (edited May 19, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by 56s (edited May 20, 1999).]

[Destroyer]

They'll take 'em one at a time.... First: you don't need that full auto, even if you have a permit; Second: you don't need that semiauto with the pistole grip; Third: you don't need a semi that takes high capacity mags; and so on....

Barrel First with free lead

[Necron99]

Registration leads to confiscation. The first goal for the anti-gunners is to eliminate private sales of firearms, they're coming close with this new anti-"arms bazaar" legislation. Soon they'll try to make any private sale illegal and force you to go through a FFL dealer (sort of like class III weapons), that way when they come for your guns and you say you sold them, they can prosecute you for not selling through a dealer. This in effect is similiar to registering your firearm. The government has succeeded in reducing the number of FFL dealers, and eventually would like to eliminate all but the largest, that way they can keep better track of the 4473's you fill out everytime you buy a gun (the ATF is currently computerizing the files of retired FFL holders so they can keep track of your purchase habits, which goes in direct violation of the 1968 NFA) They can inspect current FFL records anytime they want. They will look for individuals that fit into certain categories (eg. person who has bought more than say 12 firearms or 5 "assault weapons" on their records) and target these people for weapon confiscation (with a media blitz about terrorists/militias etc..). You don't think it can happen?! It almost did in 1994 when the US House and Senate almost voted for nationwide registration of the firearms banned in the crime bill (you would have had 90 days to register or face felony prosectution for each politically incorrect firearm not registered). Thank the Lord that it was dropped in intercongress committee to make the bill match in both sides of Congress. Wait for the next major depression, which will increase civil unrest/domestic terrorism/bank robberies etc.. The confiscation won't happen all at once, they'd start with urban areas, using race riot fears/drug war propaganda(actuallly it already has, NYC and DC for example) and work their way from there as opportunity arises.

[RacerX]

An ugly prospect, to be sure. Clinton looks like he's found a topic that generates more heat than light, so he'll keep leaning on it right up until the point where Gore picks it up as a campaign issue.

But I digress: By one means or another, they will find out about firearms that you purchased through "the system". If possible, buy weapons from individuals (while that's still an option). Keep those weapons separate from anything that was bought from a dealer. No sense giving away the entire arsenal at once, y'know? Don't assume they will wait until you're home from work to invite themselves inside your place to collect those guns. If you cache weapons, do so on public land, not your own. There will likely be nasty laws allowing the seizure of property (including house and real estate) if you fail to comply with the ordered surrender of your guns. The laws are already tilting in that direction.

If you really want to lose some sleep, read some of the online stuff concerning FEMA and "internment camps" built under some program called "Rex-84". Sure, it might be mere rumor. I prefer to eye it cautiously, given our present administration.

[Butt Plate]

The U.S. government will NEVER be able to prohibit us from having guns. It is impossible.
It is impossible for the government to disarm people who want guns.

Let's say the government finds the political will and develops the technical ability to locate all of our guns and confiscate them. No more guns, right? We all start keeping knives, swords and axes at home for self-defense, right? WRONG.

Disarming us eliminates the SUPPLY of guns. It does not reduce the DEMAND for guns. I would still want a gun. In fact, I would be willing to pay a very high premium for a gun, even illegally.

Smugglers would supply guns to the U.S. black market in huge quanities. Most guns would be interdicted at the border, but the volume of guns making it into the U.S. would be staggering and would each os us with several guns of every make and type. Prices would be several times what they are now. A Colt .45 might go for $2500 or more. But I could still own a gun. The outrageously high profit-margins for smuggled guns would motivate thousands and thousands of desperate people worldwide to try to smuggle guns into America. The supply would be prolific.

We see this reality at play daily when 10-year-olds can buy LSD on the street any time they want. A prohibition on guns would work no better than the current prohibition on drugs, and frankly, would be just as ugly, fought just as fiercely and would probably precipitate more death and violence.

If you thought the gang war over drugs was entertaining, well "you ain't seen nothin' yet!" Wait untill they ban guns!

I don't see the 2nd Amendment solely in terms of gun-ownership, since I will always own guns, legal or illegal, even if I must buy them from the Black Market. To me, the 2nd Amendment is about FREEDOM.

[This message has been edited by Butt Plate (edited May 22, 1999).]

[Heavy Metal]

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.----Euripides

We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender. ------- Winston Churchill

I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. ------- Thomas Jefferson

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.------- Thomas Jefferson


This pretty well sums up how I feel.

H.M.

p.s. euripides trousers, umendathese trousers!

[JA]

I wonder why there not calling for banning gun classified ads in newspapers? DUH

[Necron99]

I agree Butt Plate. Just be prepared to be a criminal in the eyes of the state (and in the eyes of alot of your neighbors who can't think for themselves and get brainwashed by the TV every night). Its funny because most rank and file law enforcement is progun, they know what the consequences will be. If cops think they are unpopular with certain classes of society today, just wait when they have to enforce gun laws. Many of the good ones will quit and be replaced by scumbags willing to do anything to earn a living and ego trip at the same time. In countries with totaltarian governments most guns are stolen/bought from military bases ("Where'd those two RPG's and case of grenades go Yuri?"). Another common occurence in the Soviet Union was police officers being murdered for a makorov pistol. Of course you don't hear about this in the mainstream news. When the govt. disarms the people it puts a level of distrust between law enforcement and citizens, not to mention police no longer have much fear of abusing their office. Organized crime in this country will certainly flourish (as it did during prohibition and is currently with the drug war, excessive taxes, regulations etc..). Organized crime in Russia is so powerful now, due to the government trying to put excessive restrictions on desires of the people in the past. Well you know what they say: Some people can learn about things by reading a book. Some people can observe others and learn from their mistakes. But there are those that just have to piss on the electric fence for themselves. Unfortunately, our country is collectively in the third category.

[Butt Plate]

That's alright, Necron99. I was a criminal for years and years after Jimmy Carter imposed the 55mph national maximum speed limit. Always drove 60 then. Always drive 60 now.

And the neighbors are on their own. If they don't bother to scrounge up a weapon for their own self-protection, which will be a MANDATORY NEED once criminals believe we are all disarmed, they deserve what they get.

But the neighbors will NEVER know. The only people who will know of my contraband weapons will be those few dear souls who are very closely trusted people and are very near and dear to my heart. The others don't "need to know."

Hey! Re:"Where'd those two RPG's and case of grenades go Yuri?" WHAT A GREAT LINE! I was laughing sooooooo hard I was in tears!

P.S. -- everything you said in your post is true.

[This message has been edited by Butt Plate (edited May 22, 1999).]

[sLap]

I know Total disarmerment of we the people is impossible. Thinking about the black market if owning a firearm becomes illegal why buy a 10/22 when it it just as much of a crime to buy a full auto 50 cal. Anouther thing the legal firearm I own now becomes illegal in the future why not convert it to full and sell it on the market just to get back my investment. Would making some semi auto rifels illegal to own take firearms from criminal or put more in there hands. The anti's need to be sure of what they wish for.

[Destroyer]

Now that I think about it, banning guns would probably make people desire them even more! It's the whole "forbidden friut" thing.
I wonder what the commies-in-charge would think of that?!

[Necron99]

Here's something to think about. I remember back in 92', it was during the winter Olympics in Lillehammer, Norway. I saw an AP article buried in the back of the Missoulian (our local paper here in Missoula, MT.). It was about a Norwegian oil tanker that was searched and consequently prosecuted by the U.K., because on board were found 5,000 AK-47's! The real article, selective fire models heading for the I.R.A.! Holy sh*t! Who knows how many made it through before this boat got stopped. There are alot of arms manufacturers out there, eager to turn a buck, and they don't give a damn where their weapons are going, as long as they get paid.

[DavMc]

I only have 5 words for those liberal commie bastards.....DONT'T SING IT, BRING IT!!

[Nemesis]

Remember, only 20% of the original colonies supported the Revolution.I assume the armed 20%. President Lincoln declared it completely legal for the cessesionist states to attempt revolution by device of the Constitution.(WARNING: these states lost everything including their dignity.) Be prepared to lose your home, property, freedom,(prison sucks on TV so its gotta be bad for domestic terrorists), and your life. But, what the hell, Id rather die defending the Constitution in my own backyard than in Serbia in an illegal war with a soveriegn nation for Bill Clinton and his Jewish cronies.Hail the Rebellion?

[McSniper]

Currently they are putting restrictions,next will come registration. They are infringing on our rights everyday and they will continue to chip away at them. To me personaly I go to the ballot box and if comes to it I hope to not be alone when I go the the ammo box. Our right to bear arms is the security to all of our rights. It is there so if "we the people" need to take back our country from tyranny we can do so.

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[ABUDABU]

Is everyone paranoid or what? I own several guns of my own and I like to shoot them just like everyone else... and I'm sure as hell not a liberal but something should be done to prevent the misuse of firearms like in the case of those two punks in CO.

[McSniper]

ABUDABU....something should be done to who? Me? you? the other guy? Guns dont kill people people kill people it doesnt matter if its with a gun or your bare hands. We prosecute we just didnt get the chance with these two. You accomplish nothing by infringing on my second amendment. All you accomplish with gun laws and restrictions is making it harder for the good guy. The bad guy can always get a gun. If something is to be done it should be done to parents who are letting the village raise their kids.We have the right to keep "own" and bare "carry" arms and as far as I am concerned its more than an amendment its a GOD given right to protect yourself and family.

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[This message has been edited by McSniper (edited May 31, 1999).]

[56s]

ABUDABU,
Please don't use that Buzz word "paranoid" with us! We are far from it and if you do not understand where we are coming from you need to study your history a little more.
What those little shits are doing at their schools has nothing to do with the Second Amendment, therefor our God given gun rights should not pay for their crimes. You know as well as I do that there is nothing a new anti-honest American gun law could or will do to prevent the killings in our Country! We have created this atmosphere that we now have to deal with it.
Please do not for a minute belive that Klinton cares a rat's ass for those or my kids. He is a ratings junkie that will use anything to promote his anti-American ways.
I still can not belive that right after those crazy fucks in Colorado went beserk Klinton was on the gun issue??? Does he not care about the lives of those children or did he just use those murders to push for the same gun controls that had failed only one year earlier in the Senate?
This topic is not about being pro or anti, it's about being an American and knowing
whats right and whats wrong.
Being Paranoid is a mental illness and I take offense to being labeled mentally ill. It would be a great world to live in that did not require us to have weapons but that is not the case. We are so very lucky to be granted the RIGHT to own weapons and we need to always work hard to presevre that right.
And for all the hunters out there (including me) the Second Amendment has ZERO to do with hunting so lets not think that hunting is a right and that it can be taken away in a second.
Well, today being Memorial Day lets fly our flags in honor of all those who gave it up for the cause!
Take care, OUT

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56s-2

[ABUDABU]

Like I said I own several guns myself and I'm of legal age and do not have the desire to shoot up a room full of people. Hell I even own a Mak-90 and a mini-14, but I do believe that there should be some type of legislation to help stop this kind of crap from happening in our children's schools... and no I'm still not a democrat. I just think that something is going to have to change to prevent this bulls**t. P.S. Clinton is a lying piece of s**t unfortunately like any of our politicians.

[McSniper]

The last thing we need is more legislation. If the topic is directly about children and guns than you need to look at the parents. I am a father of two and I do not need legislation to raise them. I will know if my son is in the garage making pipe bombs. If he is and uses them than hold me accountable.

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[56s]

I agree that something needs to be done but that something is not with more gun laws.
Those kids broke many gun laws and one or two more can't and won't do anything to prevent anymore kids from getting their hands on whatever tool that they can use to commit a crime.
We need to stop our children from escalating to that point of violence and I belive that starts in the home. Something must be making certain children go over he edge and I have no idea what it is. I talk very frankly with my kids and we seem to have a great relationship but I really don't know what is on their minds. I am only 38 but I still can remember how my emotions were when I was in my teens and at times it was a tough road. My parents did not talk and relate things to me as I do with my two kids. I live 1500 miles from my children but I make it a point to talk at lenght weekly with them. They have been taught about guns from day one and have learned to treat them with the highest respect but that does not mean that they could not use them for evil reasons if they were mentally confused.
I can understand where you are coming from but can you understand when I say that creating new laws that only reflect the honest people do nothing to address the issue's that we are faced with now? It only tells me that our gun hating leaders are only interested in ridding our country of weapons. Our leaders must think that we are not capable of defending our lifes and that they must protect us.
One thing that makes our country great is that we can disagree on any subject and we can gain knowlage from each other in our debates, but when the proposed quick fix solutions make zero sense I must stand my ground and try to let you know the way that I think.
If we continue to give in little by little we will be faced with losing our most important right of all. The 2nd protects all of the remaining admendments and we must ensure it's continued exsistence.
It does not matter if or how many guns that you own, it is a matter of preserving our heritage for future Americans that are let to exist.
Once again I agree with you that we need to get a grip on our country and I do not have any answers for you. Maybe we should start at home. I am not a person of worship but for the people that are I feel that they are doing a great job all ready.
How about a person with some morals as president? That would be a good start. I feel that there is far too much violence and sex on the TV and that our music industry should tone down its lyrics but there I go trying to erode our First Amemdent rights.
Like I said before, we have created the country that we live in so now we must make some positive changes that will not come over night but in time.
But in no way am I for more gun laws that only effect the honest American and do nothing to punish the criminal.
It is a sad day when our kids have to be freaked out about attending school, man how times have changed!
Teach your kids to be open with their feelings and that they can always come to their best friends(their parents) when times get tough, love them to death.
Thanks for the reply and take care, OUT

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56s-2

[xSurly]

It amazes me how so many people think laws of any type can "stop" determined criminals. How about some federal laws requiring all citizens to submit DNA samples and fingerprints to the government? Such laws would greatly enhance the crime-fighting abilities of the police. And if you're an honest citizen, then what do you have to hide?

[McSniper]

An honest citizen has nothing to hide but if you pass a law that requires dna and finger printing you no longer have the land of the free. We do not need to make big brother any bigger.

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[Necron99]

Hey! Why stop at DNA sampling, why not have a chip implant in your hand or your forehead! It'll be REAL CONVENIENT! That way you can buy, sell, or trade with the information (bank account) stored on the chip, and get rid of those pesky green bills and coins you have to carry around! Plus all your taxes and stuff will be automatically figured out for you! I want mine to have the number 666 on it! What about you guys?!

[zero]

Gun law's are not going to do a dam thing and we all know it, the bottom line is being responsible for yourself, it's to easy to point the finger at some one else as we see happen every day. Instead of screwing wit me or the rest of you guy's they need to start taking care of the shit on the street's who commit crimes on a daily basis. The government want's our gun's because they want total control over the people and that's all there is to it, you can't control an armed sosiety and they know this. For all you guy's out there who think the ballot box is the only way to go, let me ask you one thing, what is voting going to do for us when they are passing alot of this crap with out letting us know? One thing could change alot and that is showing your local politician alittle love, right before you kick the living dog shit out of him, tell him your only doing this because you love him and you want him to grow up to be a good little boy. My dad did this for me and i grew up to be a very responsible man, i don't lie cheat or steal, ha ha.

[McSniper]

Coming soon to a State near you. WWW.sksbuyback.org
Its already going on in Cali

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Zero,that's telling them! I wont sell any part of my collection to any buyback for 50 bucks max