why no russian ak's?

[bigsaxdog]

always wondered this?:confused: enjoy reading the ar vs. ak wars, the one on this forum is great! everybody thinks the ak is junk, cause' all they see(at least around here) is romanian, and they look like they were made with a rock and an old file! we get russian ammo imported, and mags and scopes, why no guns? i got a vepr, so i guess that counts as russian, but why aren't russian military ak's imported? from what i hear about the economy over there, i doubt that their willingness to sell to us is a problem. i got a kobra, and a po3.5x21 scope to go with my vepr, and anybody with a bit of objectivity will see that they are all very high quality products. my friend with a bushmaster and eotech dot, likes my rig alot better, hates to admit it though! i'd love to see(shoot) a real, current russian military ak. or are they just like the imported saigas? been into this ak thing for about a year, and fascinated by this ethno-centric(i guess that's what it is)view of the ar vs. ak debate. even seasoned soldiers chime in on it. as if you'd be thinking of that shit after you just got shot!! i didn't hump a rifle when i was in the military, but i'm not in it now, cause' i saw alot of dumba@#'s when i was in, and i guess they'll even keep arguing after their shot, wouldn't suprise me. got a little off there, but i'd really like to see a real russian ak-104, or 103, or whatever, just too see the quality. my vepr is real nice, shoots 3" with imported ammo(flyers usually cause' the 3"), and in real shooting contests, it's got more to do with the shooter than the gun. anyways, why aren't there any russian ak's to be had? (i guess i want one!!):wtf:

[Ak-103man]

I had a vepr and sold it to my step dad to heavy for me ,but I got a saiga and converted it to a ak-103 . it is made by Izhmash they make the Russian Armys AK's it's the real deal even if it come in to country looking like a hunter, I used K-var for the US made stock and handguards ect. I even got a Russian threaded front sight and muzzle brake and put it on it the only differents is mines not full-auto I did the convertion myself A lot easier than you would think .But give it a try you will be very pleased I think have a good one :cool:

[sfc ret]

the only "AKs" that are in this country are the veprs....if you want a russian AKM you will basically have to do the conversion that AK-103 suggusested.

the importation of certain modern guns, like the makarov, tiger SVDs, where banned in 94. the only thing I can think of of why the veprs, and saigas are still imported, is because cosmetically they don't look like a military fire arm....mosin nagants, some TT33 are imported as C&Rs

[Ak-103man]

yeah what he said hit the nail on the head:p

[Jimmy @ Armory USA]

Our dear gun-loving ex-president Clinton negotiated a deal with the Russians in 1994 in which they agreed to export only firearms on a list called the "Voluntary Restraint Agreement" to the US. The list can be found in the "Green Book" of firearms regulations. If a firearm is not on the list it can not be imported, nor can parts of the rifle be imported. This restriction covers any firearm made in any part of what was the USSR. Does not include the satelites.

The ATF enforces this agreement by denying import licenses for these rifles and parts. Where the advertised Russian AK parts you see came in I don't know. We sure wouldn't put our name on a pemit application for Russian parts.

The Saiga was on the list. The VEPR is on the list because Alex Robinson had the balls to take on the gubmint and sue them and get it added to the list. Appreciation is in order for Alex.

No new firearms have been added since 1994 as far as I know.

[Ekie]

And here be that list:

§ 47.52 Import restrictions applicable
to certain countries.
(a) It is the policy of the United States to
deny licenses and other approvals with re-
spect to defense articles and defense ser-
vices originating In certain countries or ar-
eas. This policy applies to Cuba, Iran, Iraq,
Libya, Mongolia, North Korea, Sudan, Syria,
Vietnam, and some of the States that com-
prised the former Soviet Union (Armenia,
Azerbaijan, Belarus, and Tafikistan). This
policy applies to countries or areas with re-
spect to which the United States maintains
an arms embargo (e.g., Burma, China, the
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and
Montenegro), Haiti, Liberia, Rwanda, Soma-
lia, Sudan, UNITA (Angola), and Zaire). It
also applies when an import would not be In
furtherance of world peace and the security
and foreign policy of the United States.
NOTE: Changes in foreign policy may result in additions to
and deletions from the above list of countries. The ATP
will publish changes to this list in the FEDERAL REGIS-
TER. Contact the Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch
at (202) 927-8320 for current information.

(b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this
Section, the Director shall deny applications
to import into the United States the follow-
ing firearms and ammunition:

(1) Any firearm located or manufactured in
Georgia, Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova,
Russian Federation, Turkmenistan, Ukraine,
or Uzbekistan, and any firearm previously
manufactured in the Soviet Union, that is not
one of the models listed below:

(i) Pistols/Revolvers
(A) German Model P08 Pistol.
(B) IZH 34M. .22 caliber Target Pistol.
(C) IZH 35M, .22 caliber Taraei Pistol.
(D) Mauser Model 1896 Pistol.
(E) MC-57~1 Pistol.
(F) MC-1-S Pistol.
(G) Polish Vis Model 35 Pistol.
(H) Soviet Nagant Revolver.
(I) TOZ 35, .22 caliber Target Pistol.
(II) Rifles
(A) BARS-4 Bolt Action CarUne.
(B) Biathlon Target Rifle, .22LR caliber.
(C) British EntMd Rifle.
(D) CM2, .22 caliber Target Rifle (also known as
SM2,22 caliber).
(E) German Model 98K Rifle.
(F) German Model G41 Rifle.
(G) German Model G43 RHIe.
(H) IZH-94.
(1) LOS-7 Bolt Action RHIe.
(J) MC-7-07.
(K) MC-18-3.
(L) MC-19-07.
(M) MC-105-01.
(N) MC-112-02.
(0) MC-113-02.
(P) MC-115-1.
(Q) MC-125/127.
(R) MC-126.
(S) MO-128.
(T) Saiga rifle.
(U) Soviet Model 38 Carbine.
. (V) Soviet Model 44 Carbine.
(W) Soviet Model 91/30 Rifle.
(X) TOZ 18, .22 caliber Bolt Action Rifle.
(Y) TOZ 55.
(Z) TOZ 78.
(AA) Ural Target Rifle, .22LR caliber.
(BB) VEPR Rifle.
(CC) Winchester Model 1895, Russian Model Rifle;

(2) Ammunition located or manufactured in
Georgia, Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova,
Russian Federation, Turkmenistan, Ukraine,
or Uzbekistan, and ammunition previously
manufactured in the Soviet Union, that is
7.62X25mm caliber (also known as
7.63X25mm caliber or .30 Mauser): or

(3) A type of firearm the manufacture of
which began after February 9, 1996.

(c) The provisions of paragraph (b) of this
section shall not affect the fulfillment of con-
tracts with respect to firearms or ammuni-
tion entered or withdrawn from warehouse
for consumption in the United States on or
before February 9, 1996.

[bigsaxdog]

thanx for the info!! it's scary how these laws work and the reasoning behind them. gotta wonder why? we're so used to an open economy, can't figure it out. don't really think these laws were of an economic nature, though. but i'm not totally sure, either. the thing is that some of all of the russian stuff i got is of pretty high quality, yet about 25% of the cost of comparable american made gun stuff. you gotta wonder how much clout bushmaster and colt, and the other ar makers have in defense industry politics? not that every household would start buying ak's, but with america's facination with money, flooding the markets with good, cheap ak's would definitely do something. an ak in every house, kinda like a chicken in every pot(maybe i'm going too far, need some more coffee!:rockin: ). we americans have a definite facination with good, quality articles at a cheap price(walmart rules!), and i guarantee that ak's would put a pretty big dent in the black gun market, if they were all on a quality level with vepr's, just gotta wonder what else the russians got? this might sound goofy, but i used to live in japan in the military, and you wanna talk about a protectionist economic policy. back then, those guys would die for some levi's and a carton of marlboros, and harleys would be the main mode of transportation if they let em' in! i'm kinda new to this black gun thing, and i've really seen the ridiculousness of the gizmo wars that dominate the scene, pretty fukin' dumb. it's just that this mindset seems to dominate our society, we gotta have too many choices, that's the only way we're happy. i gotta go, gettin' too far off!!!:soapbox:

[lockwood]

OK, so I am wondering what russian AK do I buy to start the conversion to a Russian semi auto authentic looking AK?

[Gundwulf]

Originally posted by lockwood
OK, so I am wondering what russian AK do I buy to start the conversion to a Russian semi auto authentic looking AK? Saiga.

[lockwood]

Thank You that is what I thought.

[Turbo6]

OnyxSonoma
Help me out here,would ya ? You (one) can take a Saiga That sells
for $159 @ CDNN & replace the furniture with a 3 piece furniture
set that includes a pistol grip ?? Do you have to do work on the rifle to make this conversion? Sorry if these are Stupid questions, I tend to ask a lot of them.
Thanks
John

[icemen]

Turbo6, To make a Saiga look like an ak, you have to move the trigger forward toward the mag well and cut the hole for the pistol grip nut, so you can attach the pistol grip. You also have to modify the feed ramp, so it can take regular ak mags. There are also modifications to be made if you want to put upper and lower handguards on it. Do a search for Saiga conversions. There are some threads that tell you exactly what you need to do.

[Turbo6]

iceman
Thanks for the info...Obviously I don't own a Saiga...but I could tell by their photo some major work was necesarry to make it look like an AK ...Again Thanks.. Another question if you will...Are the Russian AKs that FAC sells these "conversions" you spoke of ??
John

[Bettendorf]

Originally posted by Turbo6
iceman
Thanks for the info...Obviously I don't own a Saiga...but I could tell by their photo some major work was necesarry to make it look like an AK ...Again Thanks.. Another question if you will...Are the Russian AKs that FAC sells these "conversions" you spoke of ??
John
I'm not up in up with FAC, so I don't know but.....AK-USA sells saiga converts .so does Krebscustom.
edit for speleng

[AK01Q]

Turbo6,

Call Chris Butler @ 941-334-4231 (AK-USA) and ask him what is involved in a conversion. He will tell it to youstraight. After he tells you, you may decide that the $250.00 he charges (not including any parts) is worth it. Especially if you don't own the equipment to work with rivets.

[akjunkie]

out of curiousity...is it Legal to convert a postban 10rd hunting rifle to accept hi-cap mags? (converting the receiver)

[Penguin]

Is that import ban part of hte ($ asault weapons ban or is it seperate. I can't remeber.

akjunkie I think in order to convert it you have to make sure the parts count is right and it doesn't violate any of hte evil feture laws.

[Penguin]

Out of curiosity why is mongolia on that list? What did they ever do? I can't remeber them doing anything to stir the pot since gangis con or so.

[Immortal LuD]

Sometimes I wonder why nobody even hears of the almighty Maadi. :rolleyes:

:D

[buttrap]

The almighty Maadi? I though Lord Kitchener killed him and his horde of Deverishes in the Sudan many years ago....