Weapon Russian SPEZNAZ - “SKIF”

[makarov]

Weapon Russian SPEZNAZ - “SKIF”

What you think of this weapon?

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/1248vlad_special38-med.jpg


Vladimir Makarov

[XOX]

this is the gun I was talking about in an earlier post. It sort of reminds me of an updated version of the Makarov and appears to use the sam magazine as the PMM.

TSH77769@hotmail.com

[spitfire_mk_2]

Is that prototype or production model? Is it blow back action like PM or something else?

[makarov]

It NOT the prototype.
It is production model. This further advancing PM. But there are many differences.

[confederate]

Nice!!

I really like this one:D

Thanks Vladimir for posting these nice Russian weapons. I hope the US will rework it's importation of Russian weapons to OUR advantage.

[Cpt_Redleg]

Very nice. Still 9x18mm caliber? Also looks like it has a polymer lower. I've never been a big fan of polymer for gun parts, but I do seem to be increasingly in the minority on that.

Anyway, looks nice and Hope I can own one someday, if th US government ever gets its head out of its..., well, no, that isn't likely to happen soon I guess.

Cpt. Redleg

[UGACherokee]

Is this the new PM which uses the "high impulse" 9x18? :confused:

[makarov]

You are right is a polymer - frame of a pistol and it has 9x18
I as do not love polymer in bodies of weapon. But the new know-hows go forward and they will be used in an armament production as.

[spitfire_mk_2]

Originally posted by UGACherokee
Is this the new PM which uses the "high impulse" 9x18? :confused:

No. You want this, PM Modernized or PMM for short.
http://club.guns.ru/images/pmm.jpg

[Circle_10]

Originally posted by makarov
Weapon Russian SPEZNAZ - “SKIF”

What you think of this weapon?




i think i want one............

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by spitfire_mk_2
No. You want this, PM Modernized or PMM for short.

Actually...:D

I have the commercial version of that exact pistol, the IJ-70 -- identical to the 12-rd mag and grips -- but I've compared it to the "old" 8-round DDRs and Bulgies, and I didn't see any difference between the internals of those and mine.

Edit: Never mind; I get now that when the spec sheet says "high-impulse", on certain 9x18 pistols, they're not talking about a new, hot, 9x18 round. They're talking about the mag capacity.

Damn, and I thought my IJ-70 could take an improved 9x18 round. :(

[Circle_10]

Originally posted by UGACherokee
Actually...:D

I have the commercial version of that exact pistol, the IJ-70 -- identical to the 12-rd mag and grips -- but I've compared it to the "old" 8-round DDRs and Bulgies, and I didn't see any difference between the internals of those and mine.


i don't think the commercial IJ-70 "PMM" with 12 rnd mags is chambered for the "high impulse" 9x18 used by the russian army in the modernized makarov ...only standard 9x18mm which would explain why the internals are the same

[RJ Shooter]

I might like the looks of this one better than the Grash Vladimir!

It has nice looking lines...

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by n.marseglia
i don't think the commercial IJ-70 "PMM" with 12 rnd mags is chambered for the "high impulse" 9x18 used by the russian army in the modernized makarov ...only standard 9x18mm which would explain why the internals are the same

So there is a "high-impulse" 9x18 cartridge?

The PM design is blowback with the barrel attached to the frame, so I can't see where the difference between to two would be; a heavier gauge spring, maybe?

It seems to me that if there is a difference between the two, it would require two completely different frame specifications. I guess you could tool up for both civilian (9x18) and military (9x18HI) versions of the PMM, but it just doesn't seem cost effective.

[Circle_10]

Originally posted by UGACherokee
So there is a "high-impulse" 9x18 cartridge?

The PM design is blowback with the barrel attached to the frame, so I can't see where the difference between to two would be; a heavier gauge spring, maybe?

It seems to me that if there is a difference between the two, it would require two completely different frame specifications. I guess you could tool up for both civilian (9x18) and military (9x18HI) versions of the PMM, but it just doesn't seem cost effective.


the PMM modernized makarov has some kind of (spiral?) grooves cut into somewhere, the barrel maybe, i can't recall ...Makarov probably knows (sorry for my vagueness, i don't remember the details) basically there is some kind of modification to the operating system that makes it more of a "delayed blowback" pistol to accomodate the more powerful 9x18 "high impulse" cartridge
the modernized PMM can fire both older 9x18mm AND high impulse but the old PM CANNOT sustain repeated fring of 9x18mm "high impulse". plus the PMM is normally issued in the 12 rnd mag version. the PMM has replaced the old PM as an army production pistol, i don't even think that the ruskies still make the original PM, the russians designed the PMM to join the hi capacity 9mm craze of the 80's and 90's
9x18 High impulse is apprently similar to 9x19 in ballistics, still a touch weaker but similar. the bullet has a slightly conical shape too i believe.

[UGACherokee]

Did a little search.

From http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg21-e.htm:

"In 1980s and early 1990s an upgrade of the PM was attempted under designation of the PMM (Pistolet Makarova Modified). Key changes were introduction of the dual-stack magazines for 12 rounds and the new, hottest version of the 9x18 PM round - 9x18mm PMM. The PMM round has a lighter bullet with more powerful powder charge, providing full 100m/s (915 fps) initial velocity increase. This round may be regarded as 9x18PM +P, and of course, cannot be used in the original PMs. To handle bigger recoil of the new round without big modification to the gun, was used the same blowback operated action with rifled grooves on the inner walls of the chamber. When cartridge walls are pushed outsside by burning powder gases, they increase the friction force and acting as a recoil brake. This design improvement helped to maintain the overall original design and PMM still could use original 9x18PM cartridges, but 9x18PMM brass is being deformed after the shot, so it cannot be reloaded. This is not an issue for the military firearm, however."

My double-stack IJ is in storage right now; I'll have to look next time I see it to find out if its chamber is in fact rifled.