Bushmaster reply about Wolf ammo

[Pogo]

I just received my first AR this morning. It's a Bushmaster. In that there has been an ongoing discusion on Wolf ammo, I wrote Bushmaster an email last night asking them their opinion on using it. I'm sure there will be lots of people still not wanting to use Wolf, and I can understand their reservations.


Following is their reply that I received a few minutes ago:

Subject:
RE: Bushmaster A3 20" barrel
Date:
Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:53:05 -0500
From:
techsupport@bushmaster.com
To:
johndanley@danleyguns.com




Subject: Steel cased ammunition

We have also had conflicting reports on using Wolf or any steel cased ammunition in our rifles. The steel
cased ammunition has a preservative lacquer coating on them. This usually will not affect our rifles with the chrome
chamber and bores. But, I have had people ask why it will not work in one rifle while it works alright in his friends
rifle. Some chambers are slightly tighter than others and it makes extraction difficult with the lacquer coating while
the same rifle will cycle flawlessly with brass cased ammunition.
We do not recommend breaking in a new rifle for the first 300 to 400 rounds with it as it is somewhat under
powered. If you are going to use it then we recommend trying a few hundred rounds before buying in bulk. We have
never received a rifle for repair because of premature wear from using the steel cased ammunition. We
recommend cleaning the chamber with a chamber brush and solvent after use to prevent any problems.
Thank you.



-----Original Message-----
From: Administrator
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:32 PM
To: TSEmail
Subject: Bushmaster A3 20" barrel

Hey, I'll have to give Bushmaster an A+ for fast replies from their tech support.

:)

[TRKDVR]

Pogo, I have not had any problems with wolf ammo. It cycles fine through my Bushmaster. It is cheaper to shoot than most other brands. :)

[sfc ret]

I personally don't use wolf ammo in my AR-15s...there is plenty of brass 5.56 out there...the lacquer coating on the wolf, is what I don't like, not becasue it's steel cased.

[AKWARRIOR]

Id prefer brass but Ive put about 300-400rds of wolf so far through my Bushmaster M4 with no problems whatsoever except for the ammonia smell and thats no big deal.:DThere has been no buildup of lacquer anywhere in the weapon.

Regards,

[12 Volt Man]

Thanks for passing on the info, and congrats on the new AR :D

[308]

Originally posted by sfc ret
I personally don't use wolf ammo in my AR-15s...there is plenty of brass 5.56 out there...the lacquer coating on the wolf, is what I don't like, not becasue it's steel cased.
Same here.
It's not acurate enough in my (AR) rifles to provide satisfactory results either.

The S\African surplus .223 is (imo) the best surplus out there for the AR. It is very acurate and clean. The supply has seemed to dry up though...hopefuly more will become available in the future.

Olympic Arms has a disclaimer on their sight regarding laquer coated ammo.

[308]

Pogo-
Congrats on the new AR.

PMC is a nice brass cased, reloadable ammo which is readily available. Acuracy is good and consistant.

[AKWARRIOR]

Originally posted by 308
The S\African surplus .223 is (imo) the best surplus out there for the AR. It is very acurate and clean. The supply has seemed to dry up though...hopefuly more will become available in the future.


I agree fully,

I have few hundred rounds left of the SA 223 and its good,clean,accurate stuff.Id like to get a case of it if I could find it.The Sount African 308 is great as well.

[RJ Shooter]

I've been shooting the SA PMP commercial stuff recently (since I can't find battlepacks) and I like it a lot! Same quality. Same SA smell. Same accuracy. :D

AIM had some for a while, but I can't find any right now. :(

[thedave8]

used over 1000 rds. through my bushy, without a problem........at $99 a 1000 rds, its great plinking ammo!

[Noah Zark]

Pogo -- Congrats on the acquisition!

I'd like to add that you might consider the Barnaul "Silver Bear" 62 grain for blasting ammo. It ran fine for me in both Bushy carbines with 1:9 bores and the preban 20" Colt ST HBAR, but then the lacquered Wolf and Barnaul stuff runs fine for me too. Not exactly match accuracy, for for plinking you can't beat the cost, IMO. I'd get a 500 rd case from Dan's or ammoman or ammunitionstore and try it.

Noah

[Glock 45]

:gun:
My exoerience with Wolf has been great, I heard the lacquer rumor and contacted Wolf myself and it was true in pre 2001 production stuff, they have changed their manufacturing process and coating and thus the problem is gone. My Better half & I are an IPSC 3 gun shooting team, we both use Bushmaster M4's, She a Glock 22 and Me a Glock 21 and we use wolf in all those guns without hiccups during sustained firing and mag changes. I use the wolf 12 gage shotshells in my 3rd gun but hers is a 20 gage and they don't have that readily available.
For the price @ $99 a 1,000 for .223's and $140 a case for 40 S&W's & 45 ACP's, I can't justify reloading anymore.
Plus they are waterproof if you are a rainy day shooter, who give a damn about what the other guys say as long as your perfomance & scores top theirs.

[DrFrige]

As far as the "Functionality" goes I have never had a problem but the "goo" that was left behind had a lot to be desired. If Bushmaster says its OK then use it and be your own judge. You may like ot or hate it. I personally am lazy and like to keep my clening to a minimum. So I dont use it anymore.

[DrFrige]

My exoerience with Wolf has been great, I heard the lacquer rumor and contacted Wolf myself and it was true in pre 2001 production stuff

You know the last time I used Wolf was pre-2001. Maybe I will give it another try then.

[ctw007]

You get what you paid for. If you go out and spend the big bucks on a nice rifle (Bushy or Armalite) why would you feed it trashy ammo? Be nice to your baby and feed it what it likes. I'm not saying go out and but a case of Federal Matchking or anything but there are other options out there like that South African stuff mentioned in a previous post. I have purchased 1000 rds for $65 in 7.62x39 and my SKS's have had no problem but I only paid $100 and change for each or these guns. I'm sure you could run a Lotus Turbo on casing head but is it really good for it?

[Jacobite]

I have to agree with the Silver Bear. My Bushmaster loves it as does the AR I built my brother from a kit from M&A sales on a Mega lower.

[dchng]

JUst got me a 2003 lot of Wolf 55 grain FMJ ammo!

They look differnt from the early batch of ammo, does not have the red sealant on the bullet ! and the laquer seal is gone also!

Will try it out and see how it perform..

DavEC

[Pogo]

Just a quick note. I have put approx. 2,500 rounds through my Bushie that I bought in February. I haven't had any jams or misfires. I clean my rifle every time when I'm done firing, the same as if I was using any brand of ammo.

I can honestly say I have debunked that wives tale about Wolf ammo. :p

[adam_SAR-1]

My buddy(vietnam vet) that i shoot with kept a 5" grouping at 100 yards with wolf .223 ammo. He didn't have any problems. Keep in mind this is with IRON sights too.

[DarkStar]

Based on my personal experience, much of the Wolf legend is nothing but internet myth... In the last 2 years I've fired over 13k rounds of Wolf through 8 different Bushy's and ArmaLite's with absolutely no problems whatsoever, save for a dirty AR. There's another 6k in Wolf 55gr in ammo cans tucked away right now. My ammo of choice is LC and Q3131a, but Wolf makes great plinking/blasting ammo. With the low price of Wolf, stocking up on LC and Q3131a for serious purposes is easy to do...

In August I ran 800 rounds of Wolf 55gr in one afternoon through an ArmaLite M4C, I've even used Wolf to torture test my AR's... 120 to 150 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger and change magazines... Every AR works cold, but how many will work hot? <Try this test some time with LC or Q3131a first and see if you AR can pass the test> I've never seen the reported lacquer melting nor any undo wear on the extractors from the steel cases.

Wolf is dirty, underpowered, and smelly... but it's cheap fun... and I figure if you weapon is reliable with Wolf, it's going to work well with the good stuff....

[jnewt]

I keep hearing alot of people talk about "build up" from the Wolf ammo. Here is the way I see it... If I'm droping the coin for a premo rifle...I'm going to clean it after the day is done.... Then what build up is there? Now I dont do any type of comp shooting but Wolf has givin me no problems... You cant beat it for a CHEAP day of fun!:D

[Klutz347]

I never liked the idea of a steel case going into my chromed chamber and a copper washed bullet going down a chromed barrel bore. For this reason I don't use Wolf ammo in my BM upper. I DO have a Model 1 16" upper that isn't chromed and I have put 100's of Wolf through that. I haven't had any of the problems with the lacquer melting in the chamber or any other types of problems with it.

I do hate like heck to take the gun into the house before cleaning it, man what ever kind of powder they use, it smells worse than a 100 year old outhouse in summer.:eek:

[Themrmitch]

I'll hafta go along with "Nuttin' wrong with Wolf ammo."
I use it in my Bushy without fear.:cool:

[Mark Ducati]

Ditto that ctw007,

That's like buying a Corvette and putting 87 octane in it! You can, but why?

If you cant afford the oil, gas, and proper tires... you cant afford to drive it! Same goes for weapons!

M.

[AvtomatKalashnikova]

Originally posted by Klutz347
I never liked the idea of a steel case going into my chromed chamber and a copper washed bullet going down a chromed barrel bore. For this reason I don't use Wolf ammo in my BM upper.


Just wondering what's the reason that copperwashed bullet shouldn't go thru chromed barrel. Isn't chromed barrel better to withstand wear?

[Jacobite]

Originally posted by AvtomatKalashnikova
Just wondering what's the reason that copperwashed bullet shouldn't go thru chromed barrel. Isn't chromed barrel better to withstand wear?

I believe this to be all BS, AK's don't wear out shooting Wolf why would an AR? Granted you expect an AR to outshoot an AK but I think we are nit picking. The mild steel jacket of the Russan bullets is very soft and I don't think I will worry about it hurting the bore. If you shoot enough to hurt the bore you had fun! Go buy another barrel they are cheap! Truth is hot gas will probably erode the bore more than shooting Wolf will.

[Pogo]

Originally posted by Themrmitch
I'll hafta go along with "Nuttin' wrong with Wolf ammo."
I use it in my Bushy without fear.:cool:

Yep. If Bushmaster states there is no problem with it, I trust their opinion. :p

Edited to add: If I didn't trust their opinion, I'd have bought a different brand of rifle.

[Captain Scarlet]

if WOLF ammo functions reliably I would glady use it :)

AK's and AR's both have tough chrome chambers and bores, the chrome lining is a lot tougher than the mild steel cases used to make WOLF ammo, just keep you chamber clean and there shouldnt be a problem.

[Captain Scarlet]

laquer build up is the only thing that could possibly cause a problen since AR's have tighter tolerances than AK's & SKS's, as long as your AR has the "mil Spec" sized chamber like a Bushmaster.:cool:

[O.S.O.K.]

I use Wolf exclusively in my AK's with very good results and no problems.

However, in my Bushy, I use only brass cased stuff. PMP and Hot Shot. Both are available from http://www.centuryarms.com

In my opinion, "ya gets what ya pays for" - Wolf is fine for 5" plinking 100 yard groups and is cheap. PMP is almost as inexpensive and gives me 1.5-2" 100 yard groups. Hot Shot is more costly, but gives 1" groups - all with open (issue A-2) sights on my XM15 E2S.

The AK is a loose-tolerance, high reliability type firearm, while the AR has closer tolerances and gives better accuracy. I adjust ammo accordingly...

BTW - congrats on the new Bushy Pogo!! Enjoy!

[zidane]

Anyone have any problems with the new Wolf minus the red sealant and the polymer coating instead of lacquer?

[argwarrior]

Wolf ammo in 5.56x45 is actually copper jacketed, not bi-metal (steel).

I've shot a few hundred rounds of the new polymer coated stuff through my AR, and it's cleaner than shooting Wolf 7.62x39 through my AK was. Very few red flakey bits in the rifle. The accuracy leaves much to be desired, but I can hit what I aim at out to 300 yards with it - for a man-sized target, anyways. The main difference in my opinion between it and better brass cased ammo is that it isn't as hot, and the groups are larger.

No reliability issues for me, cheap, accurate enough. Good ammo for fun. I can drive up to Cabela's get 500 rounds and an ammo can for $56 whenever I feel like sending some downrange.