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View Full Version : Where have all the construction jobs gone?


284
02-16-2003, 04:40 PM
Or "why is the pay so low?"
Or "why do all these illegals keep coming here?"

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Sunday, February 16, 2003 - Companies that provide mostly illegal immigrant laborers to commercial building sites nationwide are thriving even as they flout the country's most basic labor laws, a three-month investigation by The Denver Post has found.


Supporters say the companies, known in the trade as labor brokers, are part of a growing and valuable trend in commercial construction. The industry's version of a temp agency, they rent workers to contractors that are shedding full-time employees to cut costs.

But the companies, some of them million-dollar corporations that control hundreds of workers, are increasingly the subject of lawsuits nationwide and are beginning to face federal probes for violations of immigration and labor laws.

Examining the brokers' involvement in three major construction sites in Colorado, The Post repeatedly found that the companies failed to pay overtime, to insure workers against on-the-job injury, or to pay Social Security and other payroll taxes.

The emergence of labor brokers illustrates a more organized approach in the industry - away from day laborers working on small residential projects, and toward moving large groups of workers from one major construction site to another and from state to state.

...
Mike Nobles, a Tennessee-based broker who provided dozens of workers to help build the $147 million Sky Ridge Medical Center in Lone Tree last year, said his company is profitable because he relieves construction contractors of hiring hassles, providing them cheap, union-free labor.

Some of the company's drywallers lived five to a hotel room and said they made $4 to $10 dollars an hour less than the union wage of $19.70. They said they worked 56 hours a week. They were not paid overtime, nor were they covered by workers' compensation. But they didn't complain about those conditions because of their immigration status, many said.

"The way these (brokers) operate they've crossed the gray line into ... a clear violation" of labor laws, said Jim Gleason, regional director of the Mountain West Council of Carpenters.

"You're dealing with workers who are transient, who generally are undocumented immigrants, so they are easily exploitable," Gleason said. "And if these workers get hurt on the job, you know they are going to end up" in public hospitals at taxpayer expense.

Many brokers, including Nobles, claim that technically, they don't employ the workers at all. Nobles said that his men are required to sign a form that designates them as independent contractors, making them ineligible for overtime and requiring them to pay their own taxes.

...
Nobles, who initially defended his $6 million a year company, said he is rethinking many of his practices as the result of inquiries by The Post and conversations with his lawyers. But, he said, in an industry that depends on undocumented immigrants for much of its labor, abuses will continue because they are profitable.

"You don't have to worry about workman's comp payments with Mexicans because they are afraid to go to the hospital. They're not going to file a big claim and sue you like the Americans are. That's what this boils down to," Nobles said. "We have these people intimidated."

As worrisome as brokers' labor practices, say immigration officials, is the companies' ability to move hundreds of illegal immigrants around the country.

"These guys can move 300 or 400 people from one big city to another without having to look over their shoulder or without any concern about it," said Gary Evans, a Memphis-based INS agent who spent almost two years investigating brokers in Tennessee and other states.

"Anytime you can do that, then the immigration service, the whole federal government, doesn't really have the resources to control it," he said.

While The Post found brokers providing workers to some of the state's major construction projects, they don't show up on projects' organizational charts and no state enforcement agency contacted by the newspaper knew of their existence.

Many of the brokers are headquartered in Southern right-to- work states with booming immigrant populations and weak labor- law enforcement. Their use of undocumented workers - and the ability to move those workers quickly between states - makes it difficult to build cases, investigators said.

...
"If the INS does come to call, the contractor doesn't care. It's not his problem," said Will Collette, who has studied brokers for the AFL-CIO in Washington.

...
"We have so much pressure to cut costs," Nobles said. But "the owners of the buildings - they want to wink at it and ignore it, and then if anything goes wrong, they want to blame it on somebody like me."

...
In Colorado, The Post's investigation focused on brokers who provided workers for HealthOne's Sky Ridge site in Lone Tree, a State Farm Insurance office campus in Greeley and an Intel chip plant in Colorado Springs. Of more than a dozen workers interviewed, most admitted they were in the country illegally, although some said they provided brokers with fake Social Security numbers or green cards.

Among The Post's findings:

* Laborers worked long hours but were never paid overtime, a legal obligation regardless of employees' immigration status.

At the HealthOne site, at least two brokers provided workers to the drywall subcontractor, Tennessee-based Delta-United Specialties, a company spokesman acknowledged. The drywallers worked a set 56 hours a week and were paid a straight hourly wage of $8-$16 per hour, the workers said.

Fernando Morales worked on the Greeley State Farm project for an Atlanta-based broker called Eagle Managed Subcontractors, or EMS. He said he worked 48-hour weeks without overtime there, and between 60 and 80 hours a week at other EMS-brokered sites nationwide.

"You work so much you don't know what day it is," he said.

EMS refused repeated requests from The Post for comment.

* Workers for both Nobles and EMS said they were required to sign forms designating themselves as independent contractors in order to get and keep jobs with the brokers. While Nobles said he made sure those forms were translated into Spanish, federal investigators said some brokers didn't bother to do even that, making it doubtful their Spanish-speaking workers understood what they were signing.

...
At the HealthOne site, workers said the brokers did not deduct taxes from their wages, and paid neither Social Security nor unemployment taxes. Some of the workers said they were paid in cash.

* None of the brokers contributed to workers' compensation, according to state records.

Both Delta and Omaha-based Eliason and Knuth (E&K) Cos., the drywall subcontractor at the State Farm site, said their brokers sign contracts pledging to obey federal and state labor laws. "If they don't, that's their problem not mine," said Shawn Burnam, E&K's unit manager in Denver.

...
In several cases, workers said brokers skimmed from their wages. Nobles' CPI Systems deducted $600 from workers' pay, promising to get them work visas. Half the money went to the INS while the other half went to Nobles as a processing fee, the broker said.

CPI employees said the visas were never granted and Nobles refused to return the money when some workers asked for it.

...
In Greeley, a worker said EMS deducted 10 percent from his check "for taxes," a level that does not correspond to either federal or state tax rates.

In Omaha, carpenters union organizer Joe Avila said EMS drywallers working at a convention center told him the broker deducted nearly 15 percent of their weekly checks for what they were told was insurance. When a worker suffered a serious back injury on the job, EMS paid part of the doctor's bills, then fired the worker, Avila said.

...
"It's getting so you almost have to use them in order to compete," Caya said.

...
A $5.6 million-a-year business that operated in several Western and Southern states, Brother's supplied hundreds of workers, nearly all illegal immigrants, to some of the country's major drywall contractors, investigators said. In some cases, workers were recruited through Spanish-language newspapers along the U.S.-Mexico border, but most were already in the U.S.

By claiming its workers were independent contractors, not employees, the company evaded more than $500,000 in payroll taxes over 15 months, and bilked its workers out of $1 million in overtime, according to the indictment and a Labor Department source familiar with the case.

Cantu also deducted 10 percent from workers' checks, telling them it was for insurance. Investigators said the money went directly to the broker.

But Evans said he was most stunned by the broker's ability to move large numbers of undocumented workers across state lines at customers' demand.

Investigators who raided a Memphis hotel room found business cards suggesting that Brother's operated under more than 20 different identities. On a single site - FedEx world headquarters in Memphis - the broker provided more than 150 undocumented workers, according to the indictment.

"I used to feel that wherever I was, the immigration service had control," Evans said. "But with these guys, there is no control. You're just there and the best you can do would be (to get) a fraction to what's going on out there."

The growth of the broker industry, experts said, has been buoyed by two trends: The growing use of temporary labor by major contractors and a wave of Hispanic immigrants who flooded construction sites in the 1990s.

Contractors "are trying to get the lowest-skilled workers for the lowest amount of money to get things done separate from the main core of employees," said Thomas Juravich, a University of Massachusetts professor who has studied brokers.

Mark Erlich, director of organizing for the carpenters' union in Boston, said that model is so profitable that it is moving quickly even to heavily unionized regions such as New England.

...
Angel Flores, who worked for Brother's in Atlanta and Memphis before the indictment, said when he asked his supervisor for a $2-an-hour raise, it came with a condition.

"The manager said he'd do it, but he wanted me to give him a week's pay," Flores said.

His bosses "liked money, easy money," Flores said.

...
Current and former employees say most of Nobles' workers are Spanish-speaking undocumented immigrants.

...
"There's a little loophole in the law that says you don't have to have a Social Security number if you work guys on a W-9," the IRS form independent contractors provide their clients to establish that they will pay their own taxes, Nobles said. Workers on W-9s, unlike direct employees, do not have to prove their immigration status to their clients.

full story:
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E26289%257E1183620%257E,00.html

Kalashnikov Krazy
02-16-2003, 04:54 PM
Well when a couple of those illegals murder their employer for "skimming" maybe they wont think its such a good business to be in. One can only hope.

MikeTx
02-16-2003, 06:50 PM
All the construction jobs have gone to the Mexicans.

Politicians need to be very careful about raising taxes because is they start taxing to much more, the goddamn illegals won't be able to afford to invade us anymore.

Sylvan
02-16-2003, 08:03 PM
Que?

chumboy
02-16-2003, 08:36 PM
they're gonna put a 400 unit " low-income housing project" in my backyard. i'm in the construction business in the winter( cuz fishin in this winter is COMPLETELY out of the question.
30 % of the kids in our local schools are now hispanic....15 years ago it was 2%.....property taxes are now 5 times what they were 15 years ago........80-90 % of these workers are OFF the books.
all health care is FREE.......and they want us to PAY for the local ADDITION to our community.
at a local meeting( that was translated) 1 of the reps from the "ola" community said that we "owe them" this cuz they're 50 % of the work force. :mad:
they make a minimum of $100.00/ day CASH and they can't afford to pay rent? the whole reason I moved here 20 years ago was to NOT live in the south bronx. so it moved here.

superskunk762
02-16-2003, 08:46 PM
Maybe all the construction jobs have gone to the mexicans in Texas, but just try that shit here in New York City! Don't get me wrong I have have nothing against mexicans, or anybody else, but lets face it they do shit work, that might be fine with sheetrockers, but do you want some undocumented illegal doing structual steel work, or building elevators (which is what I do).
I take pride in the fact that I do a quality job the right way, and the safe way, the first time. When I install a hi-rise elevator I make sure that the people who ride it for the next fifty years wont get killed! And I dont give a shit how long it takes. Do you think some mexican making $10 bucks an hour cares? No he'll throw it in so its "good enough for now". Keep those illegals down there in Texas, and Kali,here in NYC all there good for is buttering bagels.

(sorry about the rant, I had a few tonight)

protector76239
02-16-2003, 09:34 PM
i work in and around construction, have alot of contacts in different trades. more and more the mexicans seem to be taking over the labor positions. you get some lazy ass ones but more often they work harder than a white or black(if supervised). alot of them really have trouble with the boose.

there is a program i think its still called j2b or some shit that allows an employer to supply housing out of the wage. this is sort of a legal backdoor way of screwing them.

i hate illegals, a company(competitor) here got busted awhile back and lost 40% of workers. what a bunch of dumbasses. i have had some work for me one year go back to mexico and later come back as someone else or a different guy shows up with his name and ss# i guess they are not so smart, eh? i kickem to the curb asap when in doubt........see ya!!

i saw a funny damn thing once, your paste about on the job injuries made me think of. a roofer mexican fell off a ladder that sucker jumped up looking around for his boss and scurried right back up that ladder. i found out the boss hired illegals later. it was said if they got hurt he would just fire them. DAMN THATS HARD LIVIN. HA HA HA

73cj5
02-16-2003, 09:37 PM
"cheap, union-free labor"

you get what you pay for. people wonder why there are no good paying jobs. it is because of scumbags like this!

i am glad i am union and live up north. the winters suck, but the work and pay is here. :D

we have 1000 hours classroom training and 8000 hours on the job training before you become a journeyman.

Hermann
02-16-2003, 09:38 PM
I keep telling you guys that illegal Mexicans are working in all sorts of trades, from construction to assembly line work to meatcutting. Not only that, but they are working under the table, not paying any taxes. While their illegal alien wifes and girlfriends are pumping out kids like its nobodies business, getting on WIC and AFDC and food stamps and all the other welfare goodies.

Pro Reconquistas like to say that illegals only take jobs that Americans won't do. The truth is that Americans USED to do these jobs, but can't compete with illegals who will do the job for 5$ per hour. Plus, Americans like to be paid a decent wage to pay for their house and car payments. Illegals are happy to live 12 people in a 3 bedroom house, and drive old jalopies with no insurance.

Believe me, I've lived in Mexifornia since 1984. I've seen the state go from bad to worse. Large parts of Southern Mexifornia look like Tijauna. Hell, if you go 2 blocks away from Disneyland in any direction, you will think you're in Mexico. Heck, even the PA announcements at Disneyland are repeated in Spanish.

My wife works as a cashier at a grocery store. She tells me that nearly all of the customers who speak Spanish in her line will have their groceries paid for by WIC or food stamps. BTW, she's hispanic, she hates the Mexican Invasion even worse than I do.

Hermann
02-16-2003, 09:48 PM
Oh, and here's a good link about whats going on in LA county. Evidently, up the 30% of all workers in LA county are working under the table, for cash, not paying any taxes. And LA county is the largest county, population wise, in the country. So we are talking several million people who are working under the table.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/cash-economy.html

Can you imagine if the Feds knew about several million people in in Indiana or Minnisota? They would crack down on that quicker than sh!t. I wonder why they don't do that to those fine people in LA county! It seems that some of us are more equal than others.

Vladimir Berkov
02-16-2003, 10:05 PM
Free market at work, guys.


If you don't like it, you gotta lose the monopolist unions, and high taxes. The answer is not more regulation, but less.

284
02-18-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Vladimir Berkov
Free market at work, guys.

I agree.
I'd like to buy some of those al-quaeda diamonds. I bet I could get them at a good price.
I also see where the "free market" mentality has turned russia and its former client states into quite a source for weapons and the like for hezbollah and the like.

What's chechnya like these days? Those guys in leather coats still going around buying weapons from russia and selling them to the muslim terrorists?
Hopefully there'll be a good market for ther bioweapons and dirty nukes. Lots of money can be made there.

Ya know vlad, it's also people like you that I think are screwing up this country. (If you're one of the recent economic immigrants)
People abandon their home country and come to this COUNTRY, mainly for the economic opportunity.
And they take full advantage of it.
Yet, they look at the US not as a soveriegn COUNTRY, a place with borders and an identity, but rather as a "place" of economic transactions. Just a place in space to get/make money.

Sorry, but even if nationalism does not offer the highest return, it's still required in order to have a nation.

Rew
02-18-2003, 05:45 PM
but they ain't here, been layed off since the end of Nov.. Partly because of the weather and time of year. I did learn a couple things from those guys however. I work (or worked) as a finish electrition, can't do much till the drywall is up. Then I would have to locate covered boxes, fuckers would just drywall right over them. Light's, outlets, switches, no mater. Then I had to find a box that I knew had to be there someplace. Sometimes I was right on, other times I had to take out sections or punch holes till I found the damn thing. Bad, right? Nope, someone has to come back and fix the wall. I asked about this as was told "hours" it takes more "hours", and since I made the hole it must be my fault. Now my boss did not think so of course, but they don't work for him. Oh well, came in and they were 2 months behind, we got caught up in 3 months worth in 1 month and I got laid off. Anybody know where I can work "off the books" as an electrition, I hate drywall and don't talk spanish.

Lightfield
02-18-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by superskunk762
Maybe all the construction jobs have gone to the mexicans in Texas, but just try that shit here in New York City!

If you can go back about a ½ dozen or so years, Lincoln Crossing apartment complex in Wayne,NJ was built by a Texas based company (I heard "Ladybird" Johnson's company) & there were Mexicans living in refrigerator boxes on the site!
Cops were called in because of the building trades unions picketting the site & the possibility of violence.
Have you checked out ANY in housing being built?
Go up to one of the "workers" & ask him SOMETHING.
ANYTHING!
You WILL get a blank stare OR broken English for an answer.
There seems to be NO new housing starts HERE in NEW JERSEY where native born &/or citizens doing the WORK!

Don't get me wrong I have have nothing against mexicans, or anybody else, but lets face it they do shit work, that might be fine with sheetrockers, but do you want some undocumented illegal doing structual steel work, or building elevators (which is what I do).

My friend lives in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and DOES construction work.
Like apartment complexes.
He said years ago there were Mexicans doing the "grunt" work and NOW "you wouldn't believe it! Even the roach coaches that come to the site don't speak English! If you can't speak Spanish, you had better be brown bagging your lunch!
They have taken over construction in Texas."

I take pride in the fact that I do a quality job the right way, and the safe way, the first time. When I install a hi-rise elevator I make sure that the people who ride it for the next fifty years wont get killed! And I dont give a shit how long it takes. Do you think some mexican making $10 bucks an hour cares?

I'm sure too....
UNTIL they have to decide whether to pay $35 an hour for you OR $18 for Juan (who is smarter than the average illegal immigrant because his illegal immigrant mother managed to slip across the border in time for Juan to be born in the good ol' US of A. He's EDUCATED here & a citizen) who will do what you do for about ½ cost and AS GOOD!

No he'll throw it in so its "good enough for now". Keep those illegals down there in Texas, and Kali,here in NYC all there good for is buttering bagels.

(sorry about the rant, I had a few tonight)

You're allowed to rant.
I do all the time.
We have to protect our country, our jobs, the future of our childrens' jobs, our manufacturing capabilities, our economy, and protect our way of life.
It's ashamed that MOST people in third world countries were born in misery & poverty BUT do YOU want to live in your lawnmower/snowblower shed so they can edge you out?
Do you feel like competeing with every third worlder that WANTS a bite of the slice?
Or do you want to drive your Ford or Chevy & live in your little bite of the pie OR do you want every diseased, starving, work for a bowl of wormy rice third worlder to compete with you?