Shotguns are just toys, anyway.

[mangun]

So the only one that might be of any real value is a 20 ga auto, perhaps with a 3" Mag, full choke barrel, and a 20" riot barrel. Use the latter, with 2 3/4" Skeet loads, and a staked down clay bird thrower (straightaway "floaters") to introduce kids and women to the joys of shooting. With a proper sized stock and a recoil pad, they can enjoy 20 or so rds of powdering that claybird, and that often leads to wanting to try harder shots. Then that can lead to 22 rifle and handgun stuff, and we have another voter on our side.

Time and money spent of "combat" shotguns is just wasted. It cant then be spent on the far more useful auto rifle and auto pistol, or on the far more likely to be needed hand to hand training. Shotgun ammo is expensive. Nearly all the autorifle training can be done with a .22 conversion unit, meaning that 20x as much shooting can be done. A lot of the handgun training can also be done with the .22 unit, and nearly all of it can be done with 10c per shot 9mm milsurp ammo.

[RJ Shooter]

You are proving yourself to be an idiot... :rolleyes:

[AKWARRIOR]

Mr Expert,

A shotgun is the most versatile tool you can ever own.I guess you never learned that.:rolleyes:

[cowdawg]

Originally posted by mangun
So the only one that might be of any real value is a 20 ga auto, perhaps with a 3" Mag, full choke barrel, and a 20" riot barrel. Use the latter, with 2 3/4" Skeet loads, and a staked down clay bird thrower (straightaway "floaters") to introduce kids and women to the joys of shooting. With a proper sized stock and a recoil pad, they can enjoy 20 or so rds of powdering that claybird, and that often leads to wanting to try harder shots. Then that can lead to 22 rifle and handgun stuff, and we have another voter on our side.

Time and money spent of "combat" shotguns is just wasted. It cant then be spent on the far more useful auto rifle and auto pistol, or on the far more likely to be needed hand to hand training. Shotgun ammo is expensive. Nearly all the autorifle training can be done with a .22 conversion unit, meaning that 20x as much shooting can be done. A lot of the handgun training can also be done with the .22 unit, and nearly all of it can be done with 10c per shot 9mm milsurp ammo.
what is your point? or do you just like to show how much you DON'T know?

[BuckShott]

not only an idiot but a nutjob..
strike 2 for gunkid..

see how much of toy one is when its pointed in your direction.
Buckshot

[mangun]

not in TIME, anyway, nor at any range at which it was worth a hoot in hell. :-) That's the POINT. It's inferior to the pistol for concealment and handiness, and inferior to the rifle beyond about 25 yds, when guys use cover. With a special choke and load,you MIGHT be able to stretch that to 40 yds, but that's tops. When you have that tight a choke, the shotgun is inferior to the pistol and the rifle inside 10 yds, because it's pattern is so tight that it's no help at hitting anything, and the rifle is a LOT cheaper to practice with, milder mannered, and holds a lot more ammo.

Like I SAID, just because YOU are ignorant, does not mean that everyone else is. YOu have to add a $250 set of electronic earmuffs to the cost of the shotgun, because if you fire one indoors without ear protection, you will nearly drop the gun,and you will be unable to hear OTHER enemies (or the one you MISSED) For those who are UNABLE to handle indoor stuff with the pistol, because they are too CHEAP and lazy to fire more than the 1000 rds a year that Buckshot ADMITS is all he shoots, the obvious choice is a 9mm carbine. With the 90 gr jhp +P Corbon, the 9 carb has MORE power than does the 4" 357 revolver, and it's so TAME that practice with a similar 22 rifle really DOES equal skill with the 9mm. 9mm is welcome at indoor ranges,where the 12 ga is NOT. That is especially true with cast bullet loads, and certainly the .22 rifle is welcome. For the price of 1000 308's and 12 ga shells, can do a LOT more practicing with a .22 and 9mm carbine. Since Buckshot doesn't BELIEVE that skill-practice makes any DIFFERENCE, anyone who knows the score about such ALSO knows the score about what Buckshot's "opinions' about guns and shooting are worth :-)

The shotgun is NOT versatile. It's actually VERY limited,especially as a survival arm. It can't be EFFECTIVELY sound suppressed. It holds only 9 rds at best, and is VERY slow and awkward to reload, ESPECIALLY in prone, the snow, mud, cold and dark. SO are tube fed lever actions, dummies. Any REAL warrior KNOWS that being prone, in such conditions, is the REALITY of MOST combat. 12 ga shells are 8-12 to the lb, and VERY bulky. Carry HOW many of each, clowns, #6 birdshot, 00 buck, and slugs? 40 of each? HOw LONG before you are TRYING to take rabbits with 00 buck, FIGHT with #6, hmm?


A CAR15-223, with a blast reducer, and a .22 unit, is TEN TIMES as versatile an arm as is ANY shotgun. At any range at which you can take small game with birdshot, I can brain them with the .22. At any range that you can take deer with 00, I can brain them with the .22 unit. At any range at which you can reliably get chest hits with the 12 ga and slugs, I can get brain hits with the 223. You can't pierce concealable armor with slugs, much less buck shot. you can't QUIETLY remove a dog, or a sentry or patroling man. You can't carry hundreds of rds,and your buck and slugs are NOT going to be found very commonly. YOu can't conceal your shotgun, or use it one handed. YOu can't reach 200m with it, nor do you PRACTICE enough with it to be able to RELIABLY hit a 100 yd head (using cover) even if he STAYS exposed) If he knows the score, he won't leave his head out much longer than one second,and under such conditions, you don't PRACTICE enough with slugs to be able to reliably engage him at 50 yds.

So it's YOU who dont know what's what. YOu don't even know how wide your 00 patterns are at various ranges, and you will NOT recognize range-distances while being SHOT at (inside 50 yds) and THUS you WILL try to use buckshot at too long a distance, or use slugs, and MISS a lot, up closer. :-)

[cowdawg]

:devil: :asshole:

[mangun]

to refute a THING that I have said, so all you CAN do is heckle from the sidelines.

[Gazdik1974]

Sooooooo...what you are saying is you are a little weak girly-man who can't handle a boom stick....it's ok really....we would not have held it against you....but then you opened your mouth...sad really....I sure am glad I don't walk around everyday with your way of thinking..... :usuck:

[Rew]

Gazdik1974 welcome to TGN. Mangun has been termenated, and is no longer allowed to post here. I do agree with your opinion. ;)

[Gazdik1974]

yea, I saw it was an old thread but it just fired me up...thanks for the welcome...nice to be here

[sniper_n_training]

Wow, that guy was a real :asshole:

The shotguns a toy. A toy he would "never" have pointed at him.
One quote comes to mind:

"AK-47. One sure way to cure stupid"

:D

[BuckShott]

Mangun
Was an incredable troll who was the scourge of many good firearms web pages.

Nice to see him gone.

Buck