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SFC_E7
03-12-2003, 05:04 AM
Do we as citizens have the right to defend ourselves if these Bounty Hunters mistakenly bust through our door?


Bounty Hunters' Rights Under Siege After Raid
William H. Carlile, Special to The Christian Science Monitor

PHOENIX -- In the dead of night, five masked men wearing protective body armor stormed a west Phoenix home, searching for a subject who had skipped bail.

In a hail of gunfire, the bounty hunters botched their mission - raiding the wrong residence and leaving an innocent couple dead. Two men were arrested, and a third is expected to face charges when he is released from the hospital - their accomplices remain at large. The bail jumper being sought, meanwhile, was nowhere to be found.

Their night of terror cast a spotlight on the sometimes shadowy practices of bounty hunters, whose actions are little known to the public at large, yet who are regarded by police as vital aids in law enforcement.

Critics say the time has come for states to rein in what many consider the least regulated arm of law enforcement.

Bounty hunters have operated under the virtually the same rules for more than a century. An 1873 United States Supreme Court ruling gives bounty hunters broad rights when pursuing criminals who skipped bail.

As contract workers for bail-bond firms, they are not required to obtain a search warrant, as are police, nor are they required to notify police in advance of their action. Also, police must get a subject to waive extradition if he flees the state, while a bounty hunter, "throws you in the trunk and brings you back," says Aaron Rosenthal, a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York.

Changing the rules
Getting the law changed would be difficult, says Mr. Rosenthal, since it would involve either the Supreme Court overturning the 1873 ruling, or else an action by Congress.

The unique nature of the job - chasing down people who have reneged on a promise to show up in court - is the reason why bounty hunters have so much freedom.

They have a "contractual right of arrest," says Bob Burton, who runs a Tucson, Ariz., academy that trains bounty hunters. When a defendant has bail posted, he signs an agreement stating he may have his house entered or be taken across state lines if he fails to honor the agreement.

Many law-enforcement officials value bounty hunters. Police departments across the country "don't have the resources to hunt men down across the nation," says Phoenix police spokesman Mike Torres. But the relationship isn't always ideal.

The job's mystique
Some bounty hunters, attracted to the image of the profession as portrayed in films and on TV, walk a line between fiction and reality. One law-enforcement official described bounty hunters he has met as having all the macho swagger of characters portrayed in such Hollywood films as "Midnight Run" or "Lone Eagle."

And while the nation's 2,000 bounty hunters are largely effective - apprehending about 87 percent of the roughly 35,000 people who jump bail annually - the recent Arizona incident provides fuel for those who want to curb the industry.

Rosenthal, a retired assistant New York police chief, endorses a system of more stringent screening standards and training procedures. As the business of bounty hunting grows along with prison populations and the number of people released on bail, he wants to ensure that bounty hunters are responsible professionals.

Currently, no such system exists. Only two states, Indiana and Nevada, require licenses for bounty hunters; and Texas requires bail jumpers to be caught by either a licensed security guard or private investigator. Rosenthal says standards should be implemented nationwide, and include FBI background checks.

In Arizona, state Sen. John Kaites is drafting legislation that would require such background checks. His bill would also require that bounty hunters notify police before entering an occupied structure.

A similar incident here in the 1980s led to a public outcry to regulate bounty hunters. A 19-year-old bounty hunter fatally shot a fugitive in the back. He was sentenced to six months in prison, but the movement to reform the laws was defeated.


http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/1...04/us/us.7.html

Dan Morris
03-12-2003, 06:43 AM
IMO, to class this bunch in the same world as a LEO is a slam to legitimate officers!Never met one yet that wasn't a BUM>
Just my nickles worth.
Dan

Steven Mace
03-12-2003, 09:18 AM
I would have to agree with Dan on this. An LEO should never be compared to a bounty hunter(a.k.a. bail enforcement agent). An Officer represents the community he or she works in. The bounty hunter only represents the bail bond company. Officers don't make a 'commision' on the amount of bad guys they arrest. The bounty hunter makes all of their money off of bringing in the bad guy. There is no comparison in values involved.

I would be curious if this had occurred in Colorado, how the 'Make My Day Law' would have been applied?

Steve Mace

DeputyVaughn
03-12-2003, 11:25 AM
First, As the officer in charge of warrants in my county I can tell you I don't get any commissions for my arrest. It might be nice if I did, I've had a lot of success lately. However, These bail enforcement guys do get paid for their work, and dangerous work it is.

Around here, bounty hunters are obligated to be "right" when they go into a house without a warrant. If they are wrong they are liable for any damages they incurr including injuries. I'm sure there are rouge bounty hunters out there who abuse the laws concerning their trade, but the ones I know and deal with are honorable men doing a dangerous job.

Scott

Peter W
03-12-2003, 12:47 PM
One salient point of the article regarding 'Bounty Hunters' is the existance of a (bail) CONTRACT. How they go about performing on that contract is of concern to all. LEO's duties, generally, do not involve such a contract. LEO's requirement of a warrant, exigent circumstances notwithstanding, holds to the necessity of Probable Cause. A contract is a contract, and LEO's do not get the pay-off the bounty hunter does. Perhaps that should be changed.

The death of innocents is abhorent in any circumstance. I have found no law where a bounty hunter could be shielded for they hold no office. So they had better not 'F" up. LEO's, on the other hand, can be shielded from a 'F' up when a standard of reasonableness can be applied. That happens frequently. (To frequently IMO). Perhaps that too should be changed.

SFC_E7
03-12-2003, 09:08 PM
I agree with all of you, but this has not touched upon the question I asked.

Do we as citizens have the right to defend ourselves if these Bounty Hunters mistakenly bust through our door?

In other words if I or anyone shot and killed one of these BH's would the person be arrested for defending his life.

Peter W
03-13-2003, 09:34 AM
IMO, you do have a right to defend yourself. Just as a woman has a right to defend herself against a rapist - with LETHAL force.

This feel-good crap about 'CALL 911' will not save your life. Then again, one might die defending against...

Some days don't ya feel like you just can't wake up from a bad dream?:confused:

DeputyVaughn
03-13-2003, 11:14 AM
In Alabama you absolutlely have the right to defend yourself. The real problem is that when an inocent person or family is raided by bounty hunters, neither the family or the hunters realize it's a mistake and things could get very ugly. At that point anything could happen.

In my area, most of the bail enforcement guys will come to me for help on a dangerous pick up. If the charges are serious enough for there to be a risk of things erupting into a gun fight, they will present there information and tips to me and I'll set up a raid if I believe they have given me probable cause. A fugitive will be more likely to surrender without a fight to a uniform than just anyone showing up to arrest him.

Scott

Peter W
03-13-2003, 02:44 PM
Scott, unfortunately many so called 'uniforms' these days are black. Black hoods too. Menacing BLACK MILITARY style weapons:gun:

peter

DeputyVaughn
03-13-2003, 04:50 PM
My boss doesn't go in for that stuff. We still wear a traditional sheriff's uniform. It's not terribly practical for warrant operations but I deal with that. I still think it is important to represent the sheriff's Office with a distinct uniform. Those ninja outfits are not for me.

Scott

SFC_E7
03-13-2003, 11:40 PM
Thanks for the reply, this is also the way I look at this misfortune of an ugly mistake, unfortunately, the innocent are generally the one's who pay the high price of being killed.

Mejor-Que-Nada
05-12-2003, 12:01 AM
By God if somebody comes thru your door unjustly.....you defend you and yours man.....1*

NRAJOE
05-12-2003, 09:37 PM
You tell 'em Matt! :cool:

Mejor-Que-Nada
05-13-2003, 12:18 AM
Don't do it like ya know it....just do it like ya mean it Joe.

holly33
05-16-2003, 09:33 AM
If the BH's B&E in to the wrong house they are guilty of B&E.
Defend yourself, your family and home. WAX THEM!