Deactivated GP-30 grenade launchers for sale [Archive] - The Guns Network LLC ~ Discussion Forums

HKroniK

04-10-2003, 06:46 PM

The ATF might have a problem with it but aren't we allowed to build deactivated RPG kits?? If it doesnt work then wtf are they gonna say. I really want one of these gp's!!

after all: Deactivation specifications

the barrel has 4 gas-escape hidden holes
the firing pin is filed off & welded
trigger mechanism would NOT work when grenade is in the barrel
firing would be impossible if the grenade launcher is not attached to the gun
grenade has 3 gas-escape holes & the front cap can be screwed out

Penguin

04-10-2003, 09:47 PM

That would be interisting. A granade launcher counts as one of the evil fetures though. I odn't know if it counts if it is deactavated though. I would imagine it still counts as this law is all about aperances anyways.

HKroniK

04-11-2003, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by Penguin
That would be interisting. A granade launcher counts as one of the evil fetures though. I odn't know if it counts if it is deactavated though. I would imagine it still counts as this law is all about aperances anyways.

I dunno, I think this law is all about (function). Ex. you can have a folding stock, it just cant fold, you can't have a flash hider, so you cant hide the muzzle flash. Basically this gp-30 is just a piece of metal and plastic, it has no moving internal parts anymore, cant even shoot dummy grenades and comes with deactivation papers. Im starting to think it would be a waste of money, it's pretty expensive at about $379. Hell I could buy another AK for that. I dunno man i'm :confused: .....

Penguin

04-11-2003, 02:08 PM

The pistol grip is a purely look type of thing. Same with the flash supresor if you ask me as it doesn't keep some one else from seeing the muzzel flash. You are right though about the folding stock. The bayonet if you ask me could swing either way. I mean obviously you could stab one with one if you wanted but I know of no crimes that were ever comited with a bayonet. I like them because they look cool myself.

ceestand

04-11-2003, 02:18 PM

I would have a flash supressor on every damn gun I own; if it was legal. Here's a question, if you have a lower handguard pistol grip, do you have two pistol grips and thus two naughty bits?

Penguin

04-11-2003, 02:31 PM

No strangley one pistol grip counts as one of the bad features but two only count as one still. I wouldn't miind having a flash supreser either the point that I was trying to make though is just how insensable this law is.

XOX

04-12-2003, 10:30 AM

You guys know that version of the .410 AK that looks like a regular rifle model? One of those with a short barrel, and a fake GP30 would be AWESOME!!

XOX

14TH WAFFEN

04-12-2003, 01:08 PM

is it legal in US ?? I mean I don't want to waste lots of money.

Penguin

04-13-2003, 01:21 PM

From what I understand I am not expert though it is perfectly legal to own becasue it has been demilled. It will also passs coustoms to from what the web site said if I remeber. The thing though is you won't be able to put it on you AK probally becasue it will give you more than 2 evil fetures on your rifle. So if you want to hand it on your wall or what ever go for it.

BISHOP

04-13-2003, 03:40 PM

OK I'M THERE!!!!!!!

Finally somebody offers one for sale.

BISHOP

Triangle 66

04-13-2003, 08:27 PM

Um...............observation................if it can't be used to launch a grenade............it ain't a grenade launcher.........hence no "evil" feature.

Fistula

04-13-2003, 09:40 PM

Just poked around the site. They have a lot of stuff that is not available in the US. Take note on the SVD mags and the Russian polymide 7.62x39 mags. The optics section has some good stuff too.

BISHOP

04-14-2003, 04:20 PM

I just got an e-mail from them today and they say they have already shipped 14 to the US.

The total $$ to the US is $570. shipping and insurance included.

And it can't be one more evil thing against you on the gun. Thats like saying you can't have a Ruski Scope on your AK...

If FAC can't get them cheaper VERY FAST, then I'm buying one from them.

BISHOP

MIG21

04-17-2003, 04:59 PM

I would love to have one but I'll still not sure they will clear customs. When someone here gets one in their hands, I'm in. My preban AKS-74 clone has both bayonet lugs, so I even have something to mount it to.
MIG21

HKroniK

04-18-2003, 12:42 PM

I thought it mounted to the stock. Well if it needs a bayo lug then im out. Damnit!:mad:

FireControlman

04-27-2003, 08:44 PM

How does one have a pre-ban ak-74? I'm having a brain fart.

HKroniK

04-27-2003, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by FireControlman
How does one have a pre-ban ak-74? I'm having a brain fart.

:Imconfuse .....One doesn't

FireControlman

04-27-2003, 09:54 PM

that's what I thought..

even if you used a pre-ban 7.62 weapon to build up a bulgy 74 kit .. I believe you would lose the pre-ban status reconfiguring the rifle.. ? I'm not so sure

MIG21

04-27-2003, 10:42 PM

The gun in question was built by a C2 manufacturer on a pre 89 receiver form a Poly Tech 5S donor rifle. It retains the original front trunion with the original numbers. You can do anything you want to regonfigure a pre ban receiveer (other than convertiong it to a full auto), as long as it was already built into a pre ban comfigured rifle. Where do you think the pre ban Krinkovs come form? They are all built on either pre ban 7.62 (56S, Maadi, SA85 or others) or .223 (84S) receivers. To use the 7.62 receiver for a 5.45 the ejector and feed ramp have to be modified and the mag well is a bit too wide but it will function fine if everything is done right. I hope this clears things up.
MIG21

Stottman

04-28-2003, 09:48 PM

a completed Gp-30 would count as a DD under the eyes of the ATF. Same as a m203, M79, etc. Deactivated or not. Any receiver would have to be torch cut in three pieces. Thats the ATF version of deativated. After all, if it was ok to import these, dont you think that others would already import them and youu would see them in the SGN? Its not like they are super rare. Any gun dealer in Russia can sell you a deactivated one. Just because they can be mailed to the US, doesnt mean they are legal. ALLOT of stuff slips thru customs.

wrhk33

05-04-2003, 03:06 AM

USA MARKET: Unlike deactivated rifles, GP-30 technically does NOT have a receiver (which is treated by B.A.F.T. as a prohibited for importation gun part). So for the US-based customers it is possible at present to purchase GP-30 via our Mail Order service.

BISHOP

05-04-2003, 11:19 AM

Welcome aboard wrhk33.

Have you passed this with the ATF? They can be very picky!!!

The ATF can judge any part as the reciever, whatever suits them.

Heck, a Drop In Auto Sear for an AR-15 is considered a Machinegun in their eyes, and its just 2 pieces of sheet metal about 3" long.

BISHOP

FireControlman

05-04-2003, 06:57 PM

MIG21,
Gotcha, I wasn't so sure the night I replied to that post. Funny thing is I'm having a 7.62 receiver modified and 74 kit built up on it, I just hope to get it back before I leave on deployement next month.

Thanks for clearing that up. I want to make sure I know what I'm talking about.

Fellas correct me if I'm wrong - An M203 in 40mm is a DD, an M203 sleeved in 37mm is not a DD but rather if it is attached is an additional 922r part. So what mm are these GP-25's, and GP30's, and how could one of the importers get them into the country? What modifications would need to be done? because the 37mm is a flare launcher - that is why we can purchase them over the net. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Someone volunteer and contact the ATF via e-mail or phone call and let us know.

wrhk33

05-04-2003, 07:37 PM

BISHOP,
I hear what you are saying.
I just pasted info from the page that listed it for sale.
The ATF can do anything they want to and we have to comply. It would have been better if the company stopped short of making a complete launcher instead of changing a completed unit. I really don't think it is against any law but it doesn't really matter when it comes to the ATF.
I think many will be imported without any problem until that one day when a shooter calls ATF and brings it to their attention.
I think the odds are high that ATF will track down all the units to collect them. I would feel much better if a company in the U.S.
was selling them. I want one bad.

Thanks for the welcome. I have been trying to learn as much as possible within the last week here. I own 4 AKs, all post ban. My favorite is my Krebs 103k. I want to sell 2 of my factory AKs and upgrade to custom made ones. I'm collecting the parts to have a AK74 assembled by Troy Sellars as my next project.

OLEG

05-11-2003, 12:45 PM

Guys

we see the situation with launchers as follows... no AFT nor police can just come and take something away from you, because they want to. The only official government body, which could come and 'BORROW' it, is the Police Forensic Science Laboratory officers. The only reason for 'borrowing' is to conduct an examination to prove that
a) the launcher is a firearm capable of discharging some shot bullet or other missile or could be converted into such a firearm
b) the launcher is incapable of doing so...

The GP-30 deactivated is a registered design with the Russian Proof Authority and has a type approval and has been recognized as being permanently unfit for use as a firearm.

If proved INCAPABLE, the launcher is to be treated as .. well .. a piece of metal and therefore 900% legal for sale/ importation

Our feeling is that it is incapable and that was backed up by both the MANUFACTURER and Russian authorities. Besides it has no receiver as such, the gun part initially banned for importation to the US.

QUESTION: does anybody in the US have a 'friendly' police officer, close to one of those forensic laboratories ? We would not mind to send a sample voluntarily for tests to the official address

Thanks for your help

Oleg

wrhk33

05-11-2003, 05:44 PM

I sent the page of the place selling this item to a friend because
I knew he would want one. He made a bunch of calls to
3 or more federal offices. He found one that sounds like will try and get the information to the proper person. He is trying to get a letter of approval. From the initial reaction he got it sounds positive.

sfc ret

05-11-2003, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by wrhk33
I sent the page of the place selling this item to a friend because
I knew he would want one. He made a bunch of calls to
3 or more federal offices. He found one that sounds like will try and get the information to the proper person. He is trying to get a letter of approval. From the initial reaction he got it sounds positive.

I think that the ATF will require a sample of the product, to see if it is indeed in compliance to de-milled specs, i don't think they are going to just look at picture and give a OK. or by the person saying what is done to it.......of course I could be wrong.

wrhk33

05-12-2003, 07:58 PM

They asked for a sample today.
Working out the details.

SturmGrenadier

08-30-2003, 11:25 AM

Whatever came of this?

wrhk33

08-30-2003, 07:27 PM

Still waiting for ATF to give us the address where we can have the sample sent.

SturmGrenadier

08-30-2003, 11:10 PM

3 months ago they asked for a sample yet you still dont have the address to send it to? :Imconfuse :Imconfuse :Imconfuse

Seems they're not too overly concerned about it dont you think?

wrhk33

08-30-2003, 11:25 PM

Well it went something like this.
Was told it had to be sent to office number 1 by someone near the top of the food chain. Worker at office #1 said no, customs will stop it. More calls and office #1 says they will look into it.
Nothing is ever done so we get the OK to send it directly to the
top. Still waiting for the address of the office in Washington DC.
As far as I can tell they don't have a reason to want to help us.
Seems like they are just hoping we loose interest and go away.
I will ask the attorney to make another call.

SturmGrenadier

08-31-2003, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by wrhk33
As far as I can tell they don't have a reason to want to help us.

To quote Charles Barkley Anything less, would be uncivilized... quite natrually

Thanks and please keep us updated

Kalashnikov Krazy

08-31-2003, 08:13 AM

Yes, why dont you give up and go away? Right now its OK to have, why give them an opportunity to say "no" forever?

ghtomrk

08-31-2003, 07:05 PM

What KK said. On grenade launchers, its my understanding that the tube/barrel is the registered part, if there is no receiver. Look at all the old bazookas and rpgs out there. You can have them legally but they have to have a big ass hole cut in the tube in a diameter related to the size of the bore. I doubt 4 little holes that most likely can easily be welded back up would qualify. If you want one Id get it b4 they are "Banned from Future Importation." Who really cares though, its not like your going to be buying any grenades for the thing. I f anyone has these, apparently some people do, where are the holes drilled and how big are they? It would be a neat accessory and toy but for close to 6 bills Ill have to pass.

SturmGrenadier

08-31-2003, 07:22 PM

Actually US customers get a discount and its now only 5 bills delivered $499 according to a email from Oleg but dont quote me on that ;)

wrhk33

08-31-2003, 09:06 PM

ghtomrk,
If you guys are so sure that these are legal please post the pages in the Federal green book so I can read about how legal these things are. If it is so clear cut then why didn't you guys tell me when I first said I was going to ask ATF about it? It would have saved a lot of time and effort. The seller of these things also asked if we could get the ATF letter so while you are at it
go and tell him you don't want the ruling. I thought that I was doing us all a favor by trying to get the letter, but it seems that all I'm getting for that effort is a load of shit.

ghtomrk

08-31-2003, 09:13 PM

Reread my post. Im not going to buy one , but if you ask for a letter I bet you are going to get denied and these things are going to be prohibited.

Kalashnikov Krazy

08-31-2003, 09:39 PM

Nobody said they are legal, but then again nobody said they arnt. No need to pester them to say so in writing either, IMO.

Too bad they arnt like $100-150. They sure look nice.:(

Chamberlin

09-02-2003, 12:08 AM

FYI: Anybody can own a real M203 receiver by itself or a 40mm rifled barrel by itself...however, together, they are considered a
destructive device, but still a registerable item in some states.
I was in Russia last month and had the opportunity to play with the real thing and the replica.
FACT: The MGVG GP-30 replica made by Tula arms plant was never a completed launcher. It is NOT a demilled weapon.
There is no real receiver, just a trigger group which detaches from the barrel, although technically, this could be easily called a receiver...so what- They are not finished machined in the breach, there is no firing pin mechanism whatsoever, and the barrel and chamber both have gas escape holes. If you want to be real safe you could make a 40mm hole in the top of the barrel and call it a day.
Other than that they are nice, expensive paper wieghts. It is a muzzle loaded device, so no US rimmed 40mm ammo could ever safely work in a real GP30, they are completely different rounds; for whatever that is worth. If you have the ability to get your hands on real VOG rounds, you are in much deeper shit than you could ever get in by buying this toy.
If I was going to write any letters, I would write Tula arms plant and tell them to make 1 40mm hole in the barrel and be happy.
-C

wrhk33

10-29-2003, 09:45 PM

Here is the reply letter.
In short, the answer is..... Not no, but F#@K NO.
I think the biggest problem is the fact that it is imported.

Department of the Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

Oct 16 2003

Dear Mr. XXX:

This refers to your letter of June 30, 2003 to the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in which you ask about importing
a deactivated Russian GP-30 Grenade Launcher advertised by FSU
Connections Ltd, in the United Kingdom at www.rusmilitary.com.

The Russian GP-30 Grenade Launcher is a destructive device and a firearm
subject to the provisions of Title 18, United States Code, Chapter 44
and Title 26, U.S.C. Chapter 53, the National Firearms Act (NFA). It is
unlawful for a person to possess a Russian GP-30 Grenade Launcher in
serviceable or unserviceable condition unless it is registered to such
person in accordance with the provisions of the National Firearms Act.

It is unlawful for anyone to import a Russian GP-30 Grenade Launcher, or
parts for a Russian GP-30 grenade launcher without an approved
Application and Permit for Importation of Arms, Ammunition and
Implements of War (ATF Form 6). However, it is prohibited from
importation under 18 U.S.C. section 925 (d) and 26 U.S.C. section 5844
unless it is imported for government use. It does have a firearm frame
or receiver that is also prohibited from importation. Further, this
firearm is not listed among the Russian firearms approved for
importation under Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 478,
section 478.52 (formerly Part 47, section 47.52) therefore the firearm
and all parts and components of the firearm are prohibited from
importation into the United States.

We thank you for your inquiry and trust that the foregoing has been
responsive.

Sincerely yours,

Sterling Nixon
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch