Jap38

[aliceinchains]

Well i will try this again, my pics bombed last time around.This rifle has no evidence of ever having a mum?I bought this on gunbroker i do believe.This was in a private collection for quite a few year's.The serial number begins with a G and is followed by 4 digits.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/7782Picture_0022.jpg

[aliceinchains]

Here are a couple more pics.http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/7782Picture_0011.jpghttp://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/7782Picture_0033.jpg

[zouavexx]

That is a beautiful example you have there Kevin! Weird about the Mum, your right it looks like it never had one.

[Richard Simmons]

That's a Japanese Type "I" rifle made in Italy for the Japanese Navy with features from both the Italian M91 Carcano and the Type 38 Arisaka. This might account for the lack of a Mum.

http://www.armscenter.com/banzai/RifPrimer/ModelI/ModIRifle.htm#Top_of_Model_I


http://www.armscenter.com/banzai/RifPrimer/ModelI/Markings/ModIMarks.htm#Top_of_ModI_Markings

[awp101]

Originally posted by Richard Simmons
That's a Japanese Type "I" rifle made in Italy for the Japanese Navy with features from both the Italian M91 Carcano and the Type 38 Arisaka. This might account for the lack of a Mum.

True.

According to my material, the IJN never used the Mum. That was strictly an Army marking.

The alpha-numeric SN is a give-away too. The Type I was marked in the European style with a letter/number combination, whereas the Japanese manufactured weapons were all numeric.

IIRC only about 60K were made. All in Italy between 1938 and 1940 (going off memory, the book isn't handy right now). About the only way you'll discover who manufactured it is to look for the contractor stamps on the bbl and bolt (if they were even applied). They should conform to the Carcano makers. I think.

Yours seems to be in better shape than the one I had was. Mine had no stamps of any sort that could be made out, much less ID'd.

[bmh95]

Yes Yes!!!

I have one that has the mum kinda ground off of it. So it was taken from the Japanese. I've had mine for about a year, and did some research on the markings and such, I think it came out to be an early run made in about 1933. The members here helped me find a website that enabled me to identify it.

Nice looking rifle you have there.

[awp101]

Originally posted by bmh95
I have one that has the mum kinda ground off of it. So it was taken from the Japanese.
Hold what ya got...

A partially ground or "struck" Mum doesn't necessarily mean "battlefield capture".

It is unclear who ordered the Mum's to be ground/struck. Some say it was an agreement between the US and Japan to avoid disgracing the Emporer, others say the Japanese did it on their own before turning the rifles in.

There have been a number of questions as to who actually did the grinding/striking. With some having been ground more "vigorously" than others it's impossible to say what happened.

If there is one hard and fast rule about collecting Japanese rifles, it's there are few (if any) hard and fast rules about collecting. Just because it's ground doesn't mean it was a "surrender" rifle and just because it wasn't ground or struck doesn't mean it didn't slip through the grinding process.

Not trying to be a wet blanket, just don't want to see anyone put "future college tuition" hopes into a very vague field of collecting.

[bmh95]

I didn't mean that it was captured. I thought it meant the Jap's ground it off so as not to disgrace their emperor when they had to turn over a lot of their arms. It isn't ground too extensively, it looks like somebody hit it with the curved end of a belt sander for a second or two.

[awp101]

Originally posted by bmh95
I didn't mean that it was captured. I thought it meant the Jap's ground it off so as not to disgrace their emperor when they had to turn over a lot of their arms. It isn't ground too extensively, it looks like somebody hit it with the curved end of a belt sander for a second or two.
Ah, got it!:up:

I misread it as taken from A Japanese rather than THE Japanese...

[bmh95]

Phew, I'm glad we got that cleared up . . . :D

As a side note, mine was a dumpster rescue that isn't in too bad of shape, but needs some TLC from someone that knows what they are doing . . . I don't know Arisakas at all . . . yet.

[neilwest]

1. If it is a Carcano varient, I WANT IT!!!!!!;)