Orlite, Thermold, USGI?????

[The Body Bagger]

Hello one and all. As most of you who visit the Guns network know I just recently purchased a new Armalite M15A2. Just being a novice on the whole AR scene I am wondering what to do for magazines. I have deduced that for the metal mags only USGI are reliable. Out of the plastic I only know of Orlite (Isreali) and Thermold (Canadien). My question is; I want to buy some good NIB mags. What would be the best choice? Any other suggestions?

[HOLMES]

usgi mags are the best-period--the thermold mag feed lips break in the cold-yes it gets cold up here,lol-but they are plastic--canadian military abandoned the thermolds cuz they suck-i have 1 but never loaded it into my ar

[recon]

With that said the US thermolds are better! Stay away from the canadian ones! ;)

[W30olds]

I have the USGI mags. I bought them used at the gun show for $12.00. They work fine and function fine. Maybe replace the spring and followers, but that's it.

Andy:p

[RJ Shooter]

I like USGI and if I find deals on old ones, I just replace the followers with a bag of green ones I got on eBay @ about $0.80 each. If the feed lips look good, the mag will most likely be good as well. You'll sometimes find good deals on eBay and other auction sites. Just look for images that show the feed lips and possibly the followers.

I have had good luck with Orlites. And I usually store my two ARs with them, but keep some of the USGI loaded. Never, ever buy after-market USA brand mags, etc. They suck ass.

Tha absolute best magazines I have are the Teflon coated DPMS mags. They usually run around $25-$30 new, but are worth it!

[Circuits]

There are two kinds of thermolds - US and Canadian. US are by "Master Molder, Wilson, SC" and are pretty good. The Canadians went to a different plastic with less thermal resistance, which earned them their nickname of "thermelts".

There are also both US and Israeli Orlite mags - or possibly early US made mags for US consumption, and later Orlites made for the IDF. The overinsertion lip of early orlites (below mold #20) was too thick to allow proper seating in older bushmaster and some other aftermarket receivers, where the magwell bevel was not the exact same depth as that used by Colt on the M16 and AR-15 series. Mold #20 and above marginally reduced the size of the lip so they work with any receiver, and later bushmaster production changed their magwell bevel to be a bit deeper.

The biggest problem with Orlites is that the plastic gets brittle, and the back of the mag can crack and split (they WERE designed to be disposable, one-use, military magazines). Orlites also "spread" when fully loaded, which can make them hard to insert into a rifle when fully loaded, after a few uses.

In order of desirability and durability, AR mags go:
1) British (Sterling) steel and perhaps the SA-80 British steel mags
2) USGI aluminum
3) US Thermold
4) mold #20 and higher orlite
5) mold <#20 orlite
6) canadian thermold (thermelts)
7) all other aftermarket steel or aluminum mags

The aftermarket mags are made with flimsy steel, usually have very poor QA and tend to be out of spec (too wide or too narrow for the magwell), and noticeable spreading of the feedlips when loaded, which can make them hard to insert or get you a 'golden shower' if dropped or handled roughly.

There are some clear, hard plastic AR mags from Eagle, if I recall, which have a decent reputation, but I've never dealt with any personally.

[RJ Shooter]

Originally posted by Circuits
1) British (Sterling) steel and perhaps the SA-80 British steel magsI have five of these that I have yet to try. Hope they work...

[12 Volt Man]

I have never had a problem with Orlites. I usually use those. I have a couple USGI ones that I use. Most of my USGI's are NIW and I haven't had a reason to open them yet.

[PBR]

My favorites are:
USGI 20's
USGI 30's
Thermolds

I have had bad luck with orlites cracking down the back.

[DavidB]

I like Orlites but I've yet to see one lock into a Bushmaster.
No problem with Rock River or PWA though.

[sfc ret]

buy and stick with only USGI M16 mags.......there is a good reason why the canadians and isrealis switch from thermolds to metal mags ;)

[RJ Shooter]

Originally posted by DavidB
I like Orlites but I've yet to see one lock into a Bushmaster.Now ya have! :D

http://home.earthlink.net/~roglisaj/gunsnet/M4-angle1.jpg

[12 Volt Man]

I'm with RJ mine lock in to my Bushmaster no problem.

[Noah Zark]

I have to weigh in with Circuits on his take on mags.

IMO, it's a coin toss between USGI and the British phosphated steel mags as to a pick for #1. They each have their positives and negatives; USGI are aluminum and lightweight, but not as robust as steel. British are steel and more robust, but are heavier and can corrode despite the phosphating.

When I was in, it was the early 70s and USGI 20s were abundant and the 30s were reasonably available. You tend to develop a personal preference, and mine was with the 20s because the weapon was more compact and did not project as high as with a 30 inserted. Consequently, it is no secret that I like 20s for range work and especially bench shooting. But I spent all of my time repairing M16A1s, M16 mags, M14s, M60s, and M2s in VA and NC, not in SE Asia.

A recommendation is usually made with a certain amount of preference/bias, and IMO a newbie to the world of the AR would not do wrong in obtaining a mix of USGI 20s and USGI 30s. While they are available, I would also get some of the gray phosphated British steel 30s. While I know people that have had good luck with some of the polymer AR mags, I do not prefer them personally. Do avoid the steel aftermarket mags like the plague.

USGI brands include:

Colt (made by Universal Industries; Colt did NOT make their own)
Simmonds (20s)
Adventure Line (20s and 30s)
Center (30s)
Parsons (30s)
Labelle (30s)
Okay Industries (30s, but originally as Universal Industries, also made "Colt" 20s)
Sanchez (30s)
Cooper (30s; make sure there are more than three weld spots in the seams; some only had three weld spots and they are not robust)

These names will be on the floorplate. NOTE WELL: Speaking from experience, used USGI mag bodies WILL likely as not be fitted with floorplates from another manufacturer. When cleaning and repairing mags we did not pay attention to getting particular floorplates back on their respective parent mag bodies.

Be aware that if dated, USGI 30s must have a date older than 9-1994 for a civilian to own one legally. USGI 20s were not dated, and production of them ceased in the early 70s, making ALL USGI 20s prebans.

How many mags to get is up to the individual and his or her budget, and what it is that they intend to do. Any mags that you purchase should be numbered so that any failure issues can be traced to a particular mag. Cull the bad ones and number the replacement(s) with the original mag's number.

There is something to be said in having a number of mags, and these reasons come to mind:

1) They are available now, and who knows what the future will hold. Yes, I recall when a USGI 30 could be had for $3.50 ea. in bulk. Perhaps we will look back in another 10 years and fondly remember $20 USGI 30s. "Act now; supplies are limited," as the saying goes.

2) A quantity of mags means that you can load up at home on a rainy day and not waste range time on the sunny days.

3) A quantity of mags means that you can store half of them filled and rotate them periodically. Mine get rotated every 12 months. Remember, it is the cyclic loading and unloading that fatigues and breaks a spring. Modern magazine springs are heat treated to resist taking a "set" when compressed.

My personal rule of thumb is a minimum dozen per rifle. Although you will find it difficult to carry that many loaded, keep in mind that only half are normally being used at any given point in time. You can always load up all of them for a big shoot, and keep half loaded and securely stored.

Speaking of storing, 28 USGI or Brit steel mags will fit standing up in a USGI PA108 can, aka "SAW" can, in four rows of 7 mags each, floorplates flat on the can bottom.

USGI mags can be found at various forum "for sale" boards; be sure to carry out your due dilligence, watch the boards, check seller ratings, compare prices, etc.

USGI mags can be found at gunshows, but in my experience they tend to be overpriced and in rough shape. YMMV.


Noah

[DavidB]

Originally posted by RJ Shooter
[B]Now ya have! :D



You guys are the first I've heard of. We tried orlites in about twenty Bushys without success. Orlite quotes

"Orlite magazines are designed to be maintenance free. They are constructed of high-temperature nylon, with a steel mesh imbedded in the top area to reinforce the feed lips. Most pre-ban Orlite magazines have a rib around the body about 1/3 of the way down from the feed lips to keep sand and dust out of the gun when inserted. The rib is designed to work with Colt M-16s. On other manufacturers brands of the M-16 and AR-15 the magazine well may not be deep enough to use a standard Orlite magazine "

[awm002]

My favorites are USGI also, but I have had good luck with Orlites in my bushmaster. I have some Orlites I got a while back that work excellent but I have bought some recently that are a little tight in the mag well but function fine. Haven't tried any British mags but want to get some to see how they work since they are cheaper than the USGI mags.

[RJ Shooter]

Originally posted by DavidB
You guys are the first I've heard of. We tried orlites in about twenty Bushys without success.The later Orlites have a smaller, lower profile rib, and the new Bushmasters' magazine wells have been opened up a bit. That would probably explain why mine work well.

I prefer my USGI mags though, but I can load/charge and unload much quicker with the Orlites for some reason. I think the floorplate size helps with this process...

[recon]

I know I heard it somewhere why but I don't remember where? There are 2 kinds of the British SA80 mags. One is blued the other grey. Why the difference?

[PBR]

I have 1 blue steel SA80 mag. It is identical in construction to the parked ones. At first I thought it was a Sterling mag but it doesnt have the other hole cut in it.