VEPR option-foward vertical handle

[EvlAKr]

I have seen these on a number of Carbines and was wondering if anyone has seen one on a VEPR. I wouldn't mind putting one on a VEPR K when I get one.

[mack8384]

IIRC, member Otto Skorzeny had posted a pic of his Vepr with a forward grip on it. How 'bout it Otto, where is that pic. :)

Mack M.

[EvlAKr]

That would be great....come on OTTO post that pic!!!!
Thanks Evl

[Otto Skorzeny]

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/13637veprk.jpg

[EvlAKr]

I like!! Any info on how the hell they did it and how it works? Thanks alot. Evl:eek: :p

[jram67]

I bet the Ace FAL grip would match the original a little better, my 2 cents

[Otto Skorzeny]

Hey,
I used a cheap Century Black p-grip. I used my dremmel (wecsog) tool and relieved some of the plastic inside the handguard over the second hole back, enough for the pistol grip nut to fit in.
Simple job. I used a US made part as the keep the whole handguard a "US" piece. I sure would hate to be a felon because of a stupid shit law. I think the ACE grip would look better but the Century one was there (and cheap) & it functions well. Makes it less awkward being the VEPR is so front heavy & all.

[HDR]

Originally posted by Otto Skorzeny
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/13637veprk.jpg

Veprs have the best looking box in the AK world.. ;)

[hack]

evil I was thinking about doing the same thing and otto sent me a pic and also described how he did it. However if you want to spend a little more money and have a removable quick release grip you could buy a mini picatinny rail from advanced - armament available direct from them or thru brownells and a quick release pistol grip of your choice.Then you could remove it any time you please. I think the mini rail is about $20. The grips are around $30.

[mack8384]

Veprs have the best looking box in the AK world..

yes they do, but be warned that strong cleaners will take the finish off the box also :D :D

Mack M.

[EvlAKr]

Hey Hack, thoughs rails the same thing you can mount lights, scopes and stuff on? That sounds real nice. Imagine this:
1)the above Vepr K
2)Vertical foward handle
3)75rd Chicom drum
4)aimpoint red dot on top

If anybodys got a pick of that I will wet myself!!! Thanks for the help. ;)

[Otto Skorzeny]

I only wish they made 5,45 X 39 drums! I actually have a PKS-07
(7 power red dot with an AK-74 cam) scope that I use on this, I'll have to post a pic with it on there. It rocks!

[EvlAKr]

Sounds great!! Like seeing those evil black AK's:D

[Otto Skorzeny]

Here it is with the PKS 07
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/13637kwithpk.jpg

Here is the ranging oval reticle with the red dot (sorry it's a little blury). I am not exaclty sure how to use the ranging but I think a persons torso should fit in the smaller dimension of the oval at 100 meters.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/13637PKSdot.jpg

[HDR]

Otto Skorzeny
Some use 5-10" or 70" as the average height of a man.

If that is the case, the average measurement used for a torso (from the top of the head to the waist) is 31.5"

I'd cut white paper to certain lengths and tape it to a target and verify what the height signifies.

[Otto Skorzeny]

I think their reference for a torso is 0,50 m. Which is approx 20",
about shoulder to waistline on an average size man. I'll have to
try your method to verify.

[HDR]

They're figuring for a shorter person. Not sure where tho', europeans are about like us and asians are usually a good bit smaller.

But that number is an average and it varies by the average physical stats of where one is in the world ..

It is odd the russians choice was for a shorter person, they planned on fighting us. ;) That's why I gave you that particular rule of thumb.

Interesting that they use the shoulder. Most use head to toe because its easier. However, Russians use different mildots also.

[Otto Skorzeny]

I'm not positive about this scope but on my 3-8 power PSO the ranging reticle has 2 separate lines, 1 for 1,50 m & 1 for 0,50 m
(1,50 meters = approx 60" or 5 feet, this is an average man's height from his shoulders to the ground) The measurements make sense to me as the head & arms are just extremities to the "mass" of the body (Don't tell a sniper :sniper: that the head is just an extremity! ;) )

[EvlAKr]

That is a great looking rifle....:eek:

[Mysterious]

Interesting. But ONE pistol grip is plenty for me. (With my luck, the front grip would loosen and get turned around and I'd wind up shooting my ear off...) ;)

[Otto Skorzeny]

It helps a great deal when you're totin' a 9.2 lb, 16" barrelled
'CARBINE" that has all of it's weight up front. There's only a .21
calibre bore in that thick barrel.

(Umbula ... Security council:p Well put!)

[HDR]

My guess is the reason the head is included is so the reference value is the same from the front or the side views.

At range it can be difficult to distinguish head~shoulder separation line from the side.

They rarely target the pumpkin..
If that is all they see, yup they sure will. If its a special situation requiring a CNS shot, but the range will be 200 or less for CNS.

A lot of shooters state they can hit a golf ball (the size of the CNS target areas) past two hundred, but a CNS shot must be 100% reliable or the terrorist's dying act will be to detonate the bomb etc..

Before we get too far with this, the sniper doctrine of the USSR is very different than in the West.
A Soviet sniper travels with Infrantry, so he is more like our new one M-14 per squad designated rifleman than true sniper.. Most of his targets will probaly be under 300 and usually moving fast.. For obvious reasons.
The soviet optic designs reflect their doctrine. If one knows how to use the mildot system, one can establish range accurately. Soviet optics do not support that kind of accurate range estimation techniques. Soviet optics are damn fine, but not intended to be used as our mildot system.. And justifiably so, why design for a doctrine you do not use in war? Yup, there's no reason

It takes a lot of training to be a sniper and that has not been a path the Soviets followed. We do know all Soviet units have a political offiecr assigned, maybe the commissars are too smart to allow a ghillie suited sniper out where they can't see him? :eek:

Just a joke, but who knows... :lool:

[Otto Skorzeny]

I think the role of the com-bloc PSL or Drag was targets in excess of 300 meters maybe out to the 600-800 m range (max) but yes they do not have "Snipers" as we know them (although I think they are re-thinking ALL of their tactics after seeing our performance in Iraq) Their ranging reticles are pretty effective. I find them easier to use than the MOA/mildot method we use. Find the range, turn the cam to the appropriate range, pull the trigger.
It's kind of the same concept with the Springfield 6 power reticle I have on my M1A, except there is no fiddling with the turret on the Springfield Just range, Aim & fire. I think this is definetly great for "Riflemen" Not a real US Sniper. I swiped the image from nightvisonweb but it is representative of my 8 power reticle
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/13637Reticle.jpg

[HDR]

That could be, a soldier will always send a greetings to the enemy, but let's not forget the ROE's in Iraq were very short.

Combat is kind of like kids playing king of the hill.. Sometimes the king can be pushed off throwing dirtbombs, other times one must physically join him at the top and push him off.

The beauty of the Russian doctrine, the infrantry flushes them or they are shooting at the Infrantry. Now the designated marksman begins, shoot compensate and shoot again..
Obviously they do more, a lot more. But taking out the CO or the beltfeeder can turn the tide of battle.

The mildot system is a precision system, whole different purpose and doctrine.

Yes they are rethinking ALL of their tactics. They designed Iraq's defense. Yes they knew Iraq would lose, but the plan was to take out as many Americans as possible.. So yup they noticed.

Many nations remember the overwhelming Military victories in Vietnam and the political sellout at home. The media experts say the two ways to beat the US are Weapons of mass destruction or weapons of mass disruption.. But there is a third. No nation has used the first two against us, so who knows, but they do know the 3rd one worked.

Learning the dots is like many things, its easier to learn with a teacher and a book, than just a book.

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by mack8384
yes they do, but be warned that strong cleaners will take the finish off the box also :D :D

LMFAO! :lool:

[Otto Skorzeny]

Originally posted by mack8384
yes they do, but be warned that strong cleaners will take the finish off the box also :D :D

Mack M.

Looking at the box again I noticed that the front flap is canted!
I'm gonna e-mail Alex, not accept his answer, and trash him on this board!

HDR we know the 3rd way is still working Just look at our University system :rolleyes:

[HDR]

Better the box than the rifle..

:lool: :lool: