308

[Skrenos]

has anyone ever thought about taking one of their .308 AKs and cutting it down to AKSU configuration? Would make one hell of a gun in full auto http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif and I dont think you'd need a brake to power the action .

[DaveL111]

First of all, full autos are illegal unless registered before May of 1986. Second, a .308 Krinkov would be totally uncontrollable on full auto. You'd be better off with a single shot rifle, at least you would hit more. It isn't feasible, and full auto isn't legal except for legally registered guns.

[Skrenos]

please dont preach the legal-ese to me. I'm fully aware and could care less. I'm just suggesting the idea of a .308 krinkov. it wouldnt be practical, but it would be fun http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif

[TinMan99]

It would be fun only if you were a homicidal sociopath because you would wind up shooting the people around you at the range when you lose control of it. I've fired full-auto mini-uzi's in 9mm parabellum and know how difficult it is to control a short-barrelled sub-machinegun. You aim at the groin and give it a little squeeze and let it go immediately. You wind up stitching the rounds up the length of the target. Now imagine 308 in a short barrelled action like a Krinkov. First round hits your target, the second hits the roof, the third is anyone's guess. You can't say you could control it either. Over 80% of the gas is going to be converted to pure recoil and muzzle flip, of which I guarantee you won't be able to control. The suggestion is impractical and the reality would not be fun at all, in fact it could be downright deadly to anyone around you and yourself.

TinMan99

[MickeyMose]

TinMan, I must disagree. Having fired a registered HK-51 in FA (.308, 8" barrel) it IS controllable if you get used to it. ANY FA requires some getting used to as all tend to climb, well almost all, anyway. A .22 or maybe 5.45 is not as bad. Hell, even an M-16 will move around pretty good if you aren't prepared for what happens!

[TinMan99]

MickeyMouse. I concur that if you are used to the weapon, you can control it, but we are talking about a ten inch barrel firing full auto 308. I cannot see how you could control such a firearm regardless of how used to it you might be. It's the energy being released, even your arm in a locked position could not control such a volume of energy for any period of time. It would be transferred to your torso and you would be pushed backwards. I stand by my statement that a 308 Krinkov would be dangerous for both shooter and spectator in full auto. I also cannot believe such an experience for the shooter would be anything but hair-raising. Fun is enjoying what you do, not feeling your heart pounding in your chest or having that sick feeling just before you lose control.

TinMan99

[Sturmgewehr44]

Not to be a dick or anything, but HE SAID HE SHOT A SHORT BARRELED .308. He should know more than us mere mortals who have never shot an SBR, let alone one in FA.

He has experience, not just a guess.

StG

[Gun Willy]

A brilliant idea. I think I will try to round one up and go for it. For you legal beagles, Im an 07 FFL 02 SOT payer.
For those of you who haven't shot an HK51, the recoil is completley different than a semi auto long bbl. gun. The recoil is like a high pressure fire hose as opposed to the jack hammer like rapid fire from a semi auto. Once you learn the dynamics of the gun keeping the shots on a car door sized target at say 20 yards is a piece of cake. Sure these guns are abominations, scorned as a waste of ammo, unmanagable and way too loud; but until you have seen the smile of a new user you will never understand their use. For their tactical use, as an ambush or contact breaker, they are second only to a .308 chopped down belt fed.

[Skrenos]

Thank you http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif Most of the ideas that come out of my head are mainly LEO/SHTF or shits and giggles weapons. I'm just trying to throw out ideas for people.

[DaveL111]

Well, show me one LE or military that ever used or issued a full auto .308 AK. In the first place, AKs are not built in .308, unless you go for a Galil. I think there are .308 Yugos too. But no country has ever built the Krinkov type weapon in .308, most have issued it in 5.45.

Lets all just get 105mm howitzers and fire them direct fire with flachette rounds.

[Skrenos]

Well, maybe no LE uses it, because it doesnt exist. Obviously there is a market for HK-51s. So, why cant there be a market for .308 krinks?

[Comrade Andrei]

Eh...I'd just stick w/ the good ol' 7,62x39 or 5,45x39 for a AK, let alone a Krinkov. It is true, however, that theoretically this 7,62 nato Krinkov may be somewhat controlable but for full auto fun I'd still stick w/ the Soviet calibers-they are cheaper anyways.

Speaking of odd AK calibers, Yugoslavia also made a sniper rifle based on a beefed up and generally better quality RPK receiver in 7,92x57JS...kinda odd but given the prevalence of the 8mm over the 7,62x54R in Yugoslavia it makes sense.

------------------
"Liberal institutions straight way cease from being liberal the moment they are
soundly established: once this is attained no more grevious and more
thourough enemies of freedom exist than liberal institutions." Friedrich Nietzsche
SIT NOMEN DOMINI BENEDICTUM

[Fargo]

Contrary to what Dave thinks, a full auto .308 would be quite controllable if you know what you are doing. I have seen a guy make a smiley face on a 50gal drum with a MP5SD. I have personally shot Glock 18's and they are very controllable also. It is all in your stance and the way you hold the gun that allows controllable fullauto fire.

I have been thinking about a SBR AK-308 for some time now. Here is what I am thinking of doing. This was created on a photo editor program.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1193495&a=9178711&p=29812159&Sequence=0&res=high
What do you think? Making one look like a AKSU would be really really cool!

[DaveL111]

Fargo, you are talking apples and oranges here. Have you ever compared a 9mm with a .308 round? The MP5 and Glock 18 are 9mm!

I have a full auto M11/9 and have shot a lot of full auto 9mm. I have also shot an HK51 full auto, have you? There is no comparison.

Best way to shoot .308 full auto is with a HK21 or M60 laying in the prone position.

The .308 is really over powered for a short barreled rifle on full auto.

So don't acuse me of not knowing my facts. Know what you are talking about before you spout off.

[teamafx]

The HK 51 is a BIG gun! Any one ever seen Volmers 308 MP-5? Thats full auto 308 with a 6" barrel! It has been done and it does work!

Steve

[Fargo]

Dave, I think someone else is spouting, not me.

I have watched Robert Hesse shoot a Full Auto short barreled FN-FAL chambered in .308. He was having little to no problems controlling while firing it fullauto.

Drop it. Flush it. Good.

-------------------------------

Now back to the Krink in .308. I think it is a great idea! Skrenos, are you going to have one built? You definately would be the only guy on the block that has one.

[akar]

Man, a rowdy bunch on the Krink board. *LOL*

[AK Netzbedder]

Just ask Campybob about an 8" .308 HK51 and watch the grin. He has shot it and wants one badly. I saw one at Knob Creek and it didn't look all that uncontrollable to me. Now, if you want to tackle the noise issue!!! If you have shot full auto, have an idea of a proper stance, and are prepared for gun movement, control follows. I can take a 30rd mag in an FNC and at 30 yards make the target look like 1/4" buckshot hit it. On a clean target 28 countable holes out of 30. The first time a friend shot it, the target hanger and ceiling was under attack. So, I don’t see a control issue being a big thing. I will ad this one caveat, in a conversation with Chief Thunder at the OGCA, he did state the .223 krink was the way to go with the 5.45 being second because the 7.62 krink was comparably uncontrollable. Now it could just be that the action design of the HK gun is more conducive to a short barrel than the AK47 action is.

[CAMPYBOB]

"Second, a .308 Krinkov would be totally uncontrollable on full auto." as posted by dave 111

horsepucky! i've shot that same h&k that mickeymouse is talking about and it's NO PROBLEM! i can easily hit freon cans at 40-60 yards with controlled bursts. hell, i can shoot the damn thing one handed, from the "stiffarm" position and still hit targets at 50 yards. we all dumped a full mag down the bbl. and the muzzle hardly climbs at all...just a little recoil bounce and even that ain't bad. the only "uncontrollable" feature to a short barreled .308 is the freakin' noise!!! dang, is that sucker loud.

jeez, guyz...it ain't alligator wrestling or such. shoot some these "uncontrollable" firearms before shooting off the mouth about them. and if you do find them "uncontrollable" after that...hit the gym or practice a little. sheesh!

[Skrenos]

THE MIGHTY CAMPYBOB HAS SPOKEN! Well, I guess it's settled then http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/wink.gif

[DaveL111]

You must be 'da man Campy! Wouldn't you agree that an HK51 is not a Krikov?

[Fargo]

I think we should elevate CAMPYBOB from a "member" status to a "God" status on this board. http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/tongue.gif

Here is a video of Big Jims fullauto short AR10 .308 http://www.bigjimsmgs.com/VIDEOS99/quickar10.avi Looks very controllable to me.

Dave,
So you are saying that a .308 Krink would be harder to controll than Big Jims AR10, CAMPYBOB's HK 51, and Robert Hesse's FN-FAL? If you think a .308 Krink would, please explain why it would. I like to know the truth. I have seen many full auto .308's, I admit never a F/A .308 AK though.

[Fargo]

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=243170&a=1851541&p=36604016&Sequence=0&res=high

And another.....

[Fargo]

And another pic. Not a Krink but what the hell. Notice the .308 30rd mag? Pretty cool.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=243170&a=1851541&p=38154816&Sequence=0&res=high

[This message has been edited by *Fargo* (edited 01-18-2001).]

[Kenneth]

I want an HK51B!

http://www.fjvollmer.com/x51b.htm

http://www.fjvollmer.com/x51b.htm/belt51.jpg

[Kenneth]

oops, trying pic again

http://www.fjvollmer.com/51belt.jpg

[BARLEY POPx]

GIVE THE GUY A BRAKE HERE, 308 is very controllable in full auto. I get tired of it wont be legal BLAH, BLAH, Never saw one in service BLAH, BLAH. Surprised no one tried busting his balls about MOA being off or how noisey it's going to be or what a waste of ammo BLAH,BLAH,BLAH. Sounds like a bunch of old ladies bitchin about the neighbors lawn.

It's for fun, they are Big Boy Toys to be played with and besides it was only a what if or has anyone done it scenario. Any Licensed Manufacture can build any Post Ban Dealer Sample Frankenstein Weapon they want and off they go. (Remember this one "A License to Steal") Best one yet to see is a 7" Barrel FAL Para Being put together out of a friends shop. Had it at my last Shoot and he was working the bugs outta it. I hear it's finished and running fine. Can't wait to RIP a bunch of rounds out of it. YEP, 308 and controllable bursts or all 20 or 30 rounds. Lean into it and go now that's fun...

[CAMPYBOB]

you got it, barley pop! quit the bitchin' and start rackin' mags!!!

i WANT the h&k 51! sumbitch, is that thing just plain fun!!!!