hEADS UP !! LOOKING FOR phantom gun

[hammer]

I've never seen so much as a picture of this chinese tt-33 clone,
but i have seen the magizines for it listed on the internet.
I have a chinese 213 and russian tt-33 (1939).
I'd like to find T54/213a has same capacity as the P-35.
yes it's a double stack. any response.

thanks

hammer

[Noah Zark]

"Drums say Phantom come this way . . . "


Yes the 213a is a double stack, somewhat uncommon. It was imported by Navy Arms IIRC, and possibly others, for a brief time before the Clinton ban.

Your best bet is to haunt the gun auctions.

Note that these had the added safety lever with weak detents that tends to engage itself under recoil, just like the single stack Chinese Toks. PITA.

Best of luck!

Noah

[weevil]

I seen one when I was in Arizona, visiting my brother.
We were checking out the local gunstores, and one had a good selection of Chinese Toks.

One them was almost twice the price the of the rest, and was in the worst condition.
It had a double stack mag., that resembled a Hi-Power mag.
The clerk said it was a "rare Hi-cap Tokarev", and that's why it was higher.

I wanted it, but it would have been out of state purchase, and had to be tranfered to a local FFL.
I considered asking my brother to do a straw, but I could see by the look in his eye, he knew what I was thinking, but didn't want to.[he's another one who's never understood my fascination with guns]

That was about 4 years ago, and I haven't seen another since.
It was rust pitted, and felt loose, but I would have loved to have it in my collection.

[hammer]

THANKS GUYS - QUICK RESPONSE! I STILL WANT ONE #


HAMMER

[hammer]

Phantom, OKay ZARK I get it. I remember the Phantom!
Purple suit & all. Very good.

[yayarx7]

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=12325245

is this one? The mag looks way wide.

http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2003-03-16/lmcrick_1047862240_DSCN4804.JPG

[JA]

The pic from the auction is not a 213A it is a standard Tokarev. It looks wide but it is just the way the camera lens makes it look.
I have a 213A and here is a scan of the manual. The Norinco symbol and lettering is gold and for some reason my scanner doesn't pick it up very well.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/966Norinco_213aa-med.JPG
I will dig my 213A out of the gun safe and take a few pics of it as I just had the manual handy to scan it. The magazines are double stack and hold 14rds. I have seen 4 model 213A's over the years and all were marked imported by Sportarms.

[Noah Zark]

Originally posted by yayarx7
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=12325245

is this one? The mag looks way wide.

http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2003-03-16/lmcrick_1047862240_DSCN4804.JPG


Click on the link to the auction -- "Russian Tokarev made in Poland" -- those silly ad copy writers sure are creative!

Noah

[weevil]

The one I seen, had a raised ridge running down the top of the slide, like a Makarov.
I haven't seen any other Toks, that have this ridge, but besides the mag that was the most notable difference.

All off the Toks I've seen were smooth on the top of the slide, but I've never seen a 213, or a 9mm.

Does anyone have a standard Tok with the ridge on the top of the slide?

[hammer]

Weevil: Norinco added the slide rib to eliminate glare during
sighting. commercial designed product, like that stupid tangent
on the Mac. Don't need that stuff in combat! That's why military doesn't include the rib & ease of manufacturing.
Ja: You actually have the weapon!! I'd like to see a picture of same. How long have you had it ? Perhaps you might consider giving it a new home.
Forgive me but i was just wondering if it could be possible to modify a PPSH41 stick mag to fit it. My 213 had a broken sear
spring when i first shot it.(F/A) wow!! UNCONTROLLABLE 9MM
thanks for responding.....this typing is most ardious...rather field strip my SVT! COME BACK
HAMMER

[JA]

Both are imported by Sportarms. 213 on the top and 213A on the bottom. The markings on both are the same except for the addition of the "A" to the 213 and of course the serial numbers.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/966213A-med.jpg
As you can see the 213A is much wider than the 213. The slides are the same except for the size of the cut outs for the rails. The barrels,recoil springs/guides,and barrel nut are the same. The hammer and internal parts of the hammer housing are the same. The housing is different. Looks like most of the small parts interchange along with the grips.
I have 7 extra mags that are all serial numbered and 3 have a nickel finish so I assume 213A's were also imported with a nickel finish.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/966213A-1-med.jpg
NZ,
Notice the take down button on the 213A's magazine it is in the center of the floor plate. The pic that you say "the mag well looks way wide" has the take down button towards the front of the floor plate like the 213 and standard Tokarev mags.

[hammer]

Ja: I must have one (213a). Would you consider parting with it?
I have a C&R lic. Name your price man! Send me that gun! Think about it .Don't answer right away..........Okay, Now!:rolleyes: I have a 213 & TT33 Ruskie(1939) This would complete this group!
I await your reply. Phantom would say, Yes...

Respectfully,
HAMMER

[JA]

Sorry but it is not for sale.
Besides any of the commerical models of Type 54 pistols imported from China can't be bought with a C&R FFL. Only Chinese military Type 54 pistols are legal to buy with a C&R FFL.

[weevil]

I can understand JA, that would be like selling one of your children.
I must say, if I had one I wouldn't part with it for love, or money.

Who knows when, or if, you'll see another one.

I haven't!

[JA]

You will just have to check pawn shops and gun shows as I see one every year or so around here. Don't give up as it took me almost 10 years to find a Chinese model 77B(NP-20) pistol and I am still looking for a Chinese model 88SP pistol.
The model 77B has a gas retarded recoil system and pulling the front of the trigger guard back moves the slide,chambers a round and cocks the gun. The model 88SP is a Browning BDM(double action) copy.

[hammer]

JA:
I wish to thank you for your consideration in posting those splendid pictures & advice about where I may yet find a 213a.
If I can again find those pics in the photo section I'll just print them.
I plan on driving(86 mi. one way)to the Dayton,Ohio "Bill Goodman's Gun & Knife Show" this weekend. I want to trade the Ruskie MAC I bought there last month ( compulsive buyer). I don't really care
for the tangent rear sight. Didn't even shoot it. My E. German MAC
has combat sights.
Anyway, I'll look up the 77B(NP-20)&88SP on the net so that I may recognize them & let ya know if I locate them at the show.
* I'll leave word with David Innes or Professor Perry if I should not be able to return this trip. These damned Mahars are so distracting! *
Many thanks,

HAMMER

[hammer]

JA: 77B @ WWW.marstar.ca/Norinco/M-77B.htm Inexpensive!
*As for the 88sp, no sign,the Sagoths must have tsken them below.:devil:
HAMMER

[JA]

That is a good price as I paid $150 for a used model 77B 2 years ago at a pawn shop within a mile of my house. I would order another one from them but they are in Canada and Chinese guns are banned from import to the US.
What I really need is another mag for it. Thanks for the link I emailed them about getting one,waitng for a reply.

[LongRod]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Noah Zark
[B]"Drums say Phantom come this way . . . "


Yes the 213a is a double stack, somewhat uncommon. It was imported by Navy Arms IIRC, and possibly others, for a brief time before the Clinton ban.

Your best bet is to haunt the gun auctions.

Note that these had the added safety lever with weak detents that tends to engage itself under recoil, just like the single stack Chinese Toks. PITA.

Best of luck!

I got mine from SOG about 10 years ago for $150.00. It's in absolutely perfect shape with a flawless finish. It's very reliable and highly accurate although I have added a white dot rear sight and an extended magazine release. I also added a pair of Russian military grips because the left grip on the Chinese version has a built in magazine disconnect safety that slightly increases the weight of the trigger pull. The loose safety can be easily fixed. The standard detent is a single spring loaded ball bearing. Just replace the ball bearing with the roundheaded plunger used in the safety button of all Ruger MK-II pistols. It's a perfect fit and gives the safety the necessary stiffness without being too hard to engage.
I noticed that all 5 of my "13 round" marked magazines actually hold 14 rounds and function perfectly even when filled to capacity.

[hammer]

JA:
Forgive me. I wish to explain my silly references to David Innes, Prof. Perry, Mahars & Sagoths down below. Your name (JA) reminded me of a character I remembered in a book I read 42 yrs. ago by EDGAR RICE BURROUGHS- AT THE EARTH'S CORE ,copyright 1922 Great Britain. Pellucidar, that world existing within our world, And JA the Mesop, Chapter 8, page 124, if memory serves me.....wait a knock at the door

HAMM....

[hammer]

Hey everyone,
It's on my kitchen table. Most unexpectedly found today! Paid premium
price (I thought) but didn't haggle just paid the man. Pristine piece, original finish 100%, 1 matching mag. Had to have it!
Would any of you gents venture an estimate of its value please?
Don't worry I will not suffer from buyers remorse. Seems I have always paid more than someone else would have. Oh well , I'm glad I've got her. I'll shoot it tomorrow morn. It really looks too good to shoot !!

HAMMER

JESUS SAVES:

[LongRod]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hammer
[B]Hey everyone,
It's on my kitchen table. Most unexpectedly found at Bill Goodman's Gun & Knife Show in Dayton Ohio today! Paid premium
price (I thought) but didn't haggle just paid the man. Pristine piece, original finish 100%, 1 matching mag. Had to have it!
Would any of you gents venture an estimate of its value please?
Don't worry I will not suffer from buyers remorse. Seems I have always paid more than someone else would have. Oh well , I'm glad I've got her. I'll shoot it tomorrow morn. It really looks too good to shoot !!

HAMMER

Congratulations! Now you get to shop for spare magazines. (I believe that "Sportsman's Guide" still has a few left.) I bought my spare mags about 5 years ago from CDNN back when they were still 10 dollars a piece. I also bought one of the corderoy lined Chinese holsters for mine. My 213A seems to do better with Russian ammo. I believe that the bore on mine is hard chromed lined. If you add a pair of military grips (sans the attached mag safety) you will get a much better trigger pull. Of course you can always just snip off the spring steel blade on the left hand grip but then you wouldn't have a set of original condition Chinese grips. Changing the ball bearing in the safety lever for a round nosed plunger will greatly improve the safety. Have fun!!

[Noah Zark]

Congratulations, Hammer! IMO, you did not pay too much if you are satisfied. One cannot compare present secondary market pricing with pre-1994 dealer pricing. I have several $59.95 M96 and M38 Swede Mausers hanging in my room, but that's in 1986 dollars. Same rifles are four to five times that today, but the real value is somewhere between how much I "treasure" them, and what a willing buyer would pay in the (highly unlikely) event that I would want to sell.

Enjoy that 213A!

Noah

[JA]

Sportarms the importer?

[hammer]

Gentlemen:
I wish to thank you all for your kind responces!

To Longrod : Please edit my quote in your last posted reply if you can. I made a mistake! Also, I already have 1 spare Mag. The grips are the plastic panel type with the circled star just like those on my single stack 213.

To Noah Zark : Thank you again for those kind words reguarding
VALUE of this or any piece. You impress me as one having class and integrity worthy of emulation.

To JA : Someone was up late last night! There is a stamp just below the extractor on the slide- CJA SFLD - The hook on the J; the right diagonal of the A & the Right side of the D are shallow.

Shoots to point of aim at 15 yds.(WINCHESTER 115gr.) 48 rds though each Mag. w/o malfunction. Fits in Chinese flap holster but not gona cause spare mag. doesn't fit. For now going to use old leather .38 wheel gun
(police canted) holster I soaked, smoothed, reshaped and beeswaxed inside to reduce wear on finish. Fit is perfect ..for now anyway. Probably just going to add it to my Com. handgun display soon.

I paid almost as much for this girl as I did for my TZ-9mm or 10mm.
.....Dramatics..... Drum roll .... $325.00..Spare mag..$25.00...

JESUS FORGIVES (Me too, I pray)

HAMMER

[LongRod]

Originally posted by hammer


To Longrod : Please edit my quote in your last posted reply if you can. I made a mistake! Also, I already have 1 spare Mag. The grips are the plastic panel type with the circled star just like those on my single stack 213.

Fits in Chinese flap holster but not gona cause spare mag. doesn't fit. For now going to use old leather .38 wheel gun
(police canted) holster I soaked, smoothed, reshaped and beeswaxed inside to reduce wear on finish. Fit is perfect ..for now anyway. Probably just going to add it to my Com. handgun display soon.

HAMMER [/B]
Hi Hammer,
I'm not sure what part of your quote you want me to edit out unless it's the statement about only having one magazine when you actually have two.
I was able to get my fat magazine into the spare mag holder on my Chinese holster but it did require wet molding the mag holder and the entire holster; pretty much the same method you employed in fitting your 213a to your revolver holster.

[hammer]

Too bad the grip frame design configuration limits 9x23 WIN.
modification! T'would be one bad ass TOK !! Guess we'll have to settle for 9x19+PPPPPP. Hum, just a thought. Hum, HEY.. CLARK!!
HA HA HA HA HA
Hammer

[LongRod]

Originally posted by hammer
Too bad the grip frame design configuration limits 9x23 WIN.
modification! T'would be one bad ass TOK !! Guess we'll have to settle for 9x19+PPPPPP. Hum, just a thought. Hum, HEY.. CLARK!!
HA HA HA HA HA
Hammer
Not a bad idea Hammer. If the original version of this gun uses the 7.62 X25 mm Soviet cartridge, I would think the grip frame would easily permit re-barreling to 9 X 23mm. I know back in 1993 you could buy convertable Chinese Tokarevs that came with both the 7.62 X 25mm and 9 X 19mm barrels. I do however doubt that our double stack model 213A's could be so converted.