For those who want a Krinkov built...

[Ned Flanders]

I have been doing the research on getting the signature and all that stuff...one thing I was just told is that you require a REAL SAFE to store the rifle in at the address you live. In addition to that, the ATF has the right to come into your home ANY TIME THEY WANT without your permission and even break into your safe if they have to. Still want one? It looks like it is going to be next to immpossible for me to have one in the Houston area. And I really dont like the idea of them coming whenever they want. Just thought I'd let you guys know.

[timkel]

Is that a state requirement???
If its a fed requirement for non-dealer individual, its news to me.

[This message has been edited by timkel (edited 01-31-2001).]

[DaveL111]

I've never heard any of that Ned. Who is telling you this? Can you site any federal statutes to back it up?

[Tec Ninex]

Bullshit. Though a safe IS ALWAYS a good idea (I have one), nowhere on the SBR ATF form does it make any mention of a safe, or the ability of the ATF to break into such safe. The rifle does have to be available for ATF inspection, and if it's in a safe and you refuse to open it, then I guess they can breach it. There is no requirement for a safe. Did your local LEO tell you that?

take care,
Tec

[ben k]

Ned, you haven't been doing very competent research, if this were for a grade you would get an F. No offense intended everyone needs to learn somehow and their are plenty of self-appointed "experts" out their to spread this crap around to the unwary. Those are two of the oldest myths in the NFA business. Both of them are untrue and do not apply to individuals possessing title II weapons. Class III dealers do give up some of their 4th Amendment protections but only at their place of business. Fortunately one does not have to be a Class III dealer to possess title II devices. As a disclaimer I will note that you may indeed have bizarre and onerous local laws to the above affect, but they are certainly not federal issues. BTW who told you this nonsense, in my experience most of this misinformation comes from either, people who have never owned an NFA weapon or a select few no-nothing title I gun dealers. In the future and for anyone else with NFA related questions, the only place IMHO to go is http://subguns.biggerhammer.net/
Most of the best minds in the machinegun community dwell there.


[This message has been edited by ben k (edited 01-31-2001).]

[This message has been edited by ben k (edited 01-31-2001).]

[Ned Flanders]

I really hope you guys are correct and I am wrong!!! This was told to me by a Class3 dealer in Conroe who handles many tranfers and stores NFA firearms for people and such. Perhaps he meant full-auto but I DID tell him semi-auto SBR and he said ALL Class3 has to be this way. Either way, each of you should check first just in case. If I'm wrong than that is great news.

[ben k]

All of those title II items are treated the same, SBRs, AOWs, SBSs, Machine Guns, DDs, etc. If he said that and he is a Class III dealer either he is woefully misinformed about federal law or you have some local requirements. He as a class III dealer like I said above, does forfeit some 4th amendment protections, but not an individual possessor. He would not be the first CIII dealer I've met who didn't adequately understand the rules of his trade. Seriously though, go post your query on the "subguns" board and you will see that this is a common misconception. I have legally owned machine guns, short barreled shotguns, and short barreled rifles for some time and I don't have to function under those rules.

[xtc]

What have u been smoking ned? CRACK
what u said is total bullshit
u obviously didnt do much research

u dont have to have safe, it a good idea
but it isnt a requirement for a nfa

they cant come in ur house any time they want
and break in to the safe, i have heard they can contact u and requset to see the firearm
to make sure its in ur possession,

and if u want to be technical the weapon doesnt even have to be where u live as long as it is locked up ( i.e. a safe ) and no one else can access/open the safe

what u said was totally inaccurate

[Ned Flanders]

Why does everyone have to be so hostile? I said in my top post that a Class3 told ME this. I didnt make it up. The point of this forum is to solve things like this. All your news is good, dont act like I'm happy if it were true because I'm glad it isnt. I will simply call other places to verify it. Maybe it is just a Harris County thing or maybe HE was an idiot or thinking I meant full-auto guns. I have heard about the ATF coming whenever they want for CCL permits as my friend cancelled when he found that out. If that also is untrue, then there is a conspiracy going around to disuade people from getting these guns and permits. So stop the hostility as this news is steering BACK to wanting one again. Thanks.

[Fargo]

Sounds like someone has blown smoke up your a$$ Ned. I would read this: http://www.subguns.com/laws/iif1.htm

[raf32]

Quoted from James Bardwell (attorney)
As to one who is neither a FFL nor SOT, but only owns
weapons regulated under the National Firearms Act, the law seems
clear, but practice is a little murky. ATF may only compel you
to show an agent upon request the registration paperwork, that
is the Form 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or whatever else might have been used
to register the weapon. See 26 USC sec. 5841(e). They do not
have any right to compel you to show them the weapon. However
they apparently (I have no first hand knowledge) take the
position that they can compel one to show ATF the weapon upon
request, even if the owner has no FFL. As always the Fourth
amendment applies, and ATF may not enter your home or other place
of storage of the NFA weapon, nor seize the weapon, without a
warrant, or without falling under an exception the Supreme Court
has created to the operation of the Fourth amendment. They
should also need a warrant to compel a non-FFL holder to show
them the weapon, and I would insist upon that, myself.