Problem stripping round from mag

[Messiah Jones]

I am the very definition of a newbie to the AR15 rifle. That said...

Every once in a while the bolt wont strip a round from the mag, and then will jam half open with the bolt on top of the round. The round still moslty in the mag.

I use the Wolf green laquer coated ammo. And I've read that sometimes the laquer stuff won't extract, but every shell extracts and ejects perfectly.

Therefore I assume this is a mag problem. I use the English steel "Imperial Defence Systems" mag which has the green follower.

Is this most likely just the mag not lifting smoothly or something? It is a brand new mag and I haven't taken it apart or oiled it or anything.

Thanks for any help. :)

[oclvtrek]

Messiah,

I have never had good luck with Wolf ammo and the English magazines. When I've used them together I experienced the exact same problem you discribed and here's what I've learned:

1. Never use Wolf in a brand new AR. Get a few hundred rounds down it first. Some will say to never use Wolf in an AR but as long as you don't mind cleaning it the choice is yours.

2. I had good luck with the English mags and Q3131A and I've had good luck with Wolf and USGI mags but when I put the English mags and Wolf together...well, you know the rest.

3. Try replacing the springs in the english mags. Since you already have green followers in them go ahead and put some of the nice silicon springs in there too. I haven't tried Wolf in my English mags since I replaced springs and followers but it can't hurt. The springs I took out of mine were the weakest things I've seen in a long time.

4. While you've got the mags apart clean the inside of the mag body with a mag brush or small wire brush. The finish on the inside of my English mags was very rough. I thought this may have contributed to the failure to feeds but like I said I haven't had a chance to test with Wolf ammo again.

Well, that's all I can think of for now. If I remember anything else I'll let you know. Hope this helps.

[Messiah Jones]

Thanks for the reply...

This happened about "1" in "30-40" rounds or so. So it wasn't a huge deal, but this being my first time with an AR15 it was dissapointing.

I had an "OKAY" 30 rounder at first but it did the same thing about "1" in "5" rounds even with brass ammo. It had a black follower. I immediately traded it back to the dealer for the English mag.

I haven't used the brass ammo in the English mag yet. But the brass stuff did bind up with the "OKAY", black follower mag.

I'll check out the mag for roughness and try cycling my 20 rounds of brass stuff through it. And go from there.


There are too many variables here. :(

[Messiah Jones]

oclvtrek,

If you happen to try some Wolf with your new setup please let me know. I have about 2K rounds of the stuff and hate to think I messed up by buying it.

Also, can you reccomend another brand to use that is comparable in price to Wolf?

I don't need perfect accuracy, this is just for plinking fun. :)

[oclvtrek]

We'll it's strange that it happened with the USGI mag too.

First things first and since it's new did you clean the rifle before shooting it? The other thing goes back to my first point in my last post...break it in with some good ammo like Q3131A or M193. I believe that you have to get an AR loosened up to Wolf ammo. I have a little M4gery here that I bought just a abuse and the first 80 rounds through it was PMC & Wolf. About every 3 or 4 rounds resulted in a failure. It was horrible. I took it home, cleaned the hell out of it and shoot about 500 rounds of Q3131A through it and since then it has chewed up all the Wolf I have feed it without a hitch.

As far as other cheap ammo...I don't know :confused: I usually only shoot Q3131A, M193 or Wolf. My local gun store had some CZ brass stuff but I haven't tried any. It came in a mint green box and was just as cheap as Wolf if I remember correctly.

[Dano523]

Originally posted by Messiah Jones

Every once in a while the bolt wont strip a round from the mag, and then will jam half open with the bolt on top of the round. The round still moslty in the mag.


The jam is caused by the carrier/bolt short stroking on extraction of the lacquered cases. The bolt on the ejection cycle fails to make it past the back of the rim, and grabs the case on top of the round (in front of the rim) and strips the round out of the mag.

The problem is caused by the Wolff ammo binding to the new/tight chamber on extraction (lacquered cases are not as slick as Brass cases), which slows the bolt/carrier movement rearward. If you had noticed, on the ejections just before the jams, the spent case was only ejected about a foot out of the port, and not the normal 10'-15'. Also, the main reason for the sporadic jam is that the Wolf cases are scrapped on the mag/feed ramps during loading, which builds up a powderized lacquered fouling, and once the fouling is thick enough, it semi- binds the case to the chamber walls, and not that the lacquer is melting to the chamber walls.

The simple cure to the problem is to allow the chamber to self-polished by live fire, using brass case ammo. It you are just plinking with the rifle, buy a half case of S/A for $135, then go back t the Wolf ammo after you have burned up the 500 lot.

[chickrepelent]

It could be that your mag catch is out of adjustment. I would try tightning it a turn.
The mag catch problem is much more common than short stroking.

[Dano523]

Originally posted by chickrepelent
It could be that your mag catch is out of adjustment. I would try tightning it a turn.
The mag catch problem is much more common than short stroking.

On the English steel "Imperial Defense Systems" mags, they don't have the problem of dropping to low due to a loose mag catch. If nothing else, the mag button catch hole on the mag has to be lowered with a file to allow the mag to fit into the rifle. Granted that he may have a black follower that could be binding up on the mag walls, but on this type of jam, the bolt just rides completely over the top of the round. Plus the recoil of the buffer tagging off the back of the receiver extension usually just pops the follower/bullet up before the bolt makes it back to strip a round.

The two tell tales signs of his problem was that the follower/spring (SA-80 mag) had enough upward force to hold the bullet tight against the mag lips to allow the bolt to strip a round with only top surface tension (not from behind the rim), and the fact that he is using Wolf ammo in a new rifle /freshly reamed chamber that has not self polished.