Question for Electricians

[Bloodhart]

I'm a journeyman electrician that has been doing something else for about 3 1/2 yrs. I was offered a job for about 5$ plus benefits more than the job I'm at which is general construction. Since selling my resturaunt I've been contemplating getting back into the electrical business and this seems to be the ticket. I am also wanting to relocate in about a year and I thinking this will be my chance to brush up on my electrical knowledge.
Here's my problem. I've been looking for a good online forum that is for electricians. I haven't been able to find any. I also am looking for someplace that sell educational dvds on the electrical trades. Espicially on motors, motor controls, and the like.
The way I was trained was I started working for an electrician that was semi retired. He had time to train me while I worked with him. He eventually retired and I ended working for a company with who I got my journeymen's license for Kansas. I quit about 6 mo. later because the pay for electricians in SE Kansas is pretty crappy. I can make more working carpentry than I can as a journeyman. And I was getting the average pay for journeymen so it wasn't because my work was crappy. The problem with the way I learned the trade is that there are a lot of holes in my "education". I learned a lot about basic house wiring which isn't much but I missed out a bunch on technical things.
Does anyone know of a source for training videos other than the Tom Henry stuff?

[Noah Zark]

IMO, the best thing to do would be to sign up for appropriate course(s) at the local vo-tech/trade school to brush up on your weak areas.

Industrial wiring is substantially different from residential wiring. Industrial wiring is run in Electro Mechanical Tubing or Flexible Conduit (commonly called "Seal Tight" or "Greenfield" after the manufacturer) containing individual conductors running from junction box to device, etc. Most industrial wiring is 3-phase 460, 575, or 600 volts depending on the local utility or the age of the plant. Motors and heaters, etc., all have three conductors running to them from the starter/contactors, A, B, and C, and are customarily color-coded brown, orange, and yellow (remember "BOY") for 460V 3Ph. Each motor or heating coil is usually controlled by a magnetic relay starter, an electromechanical device that switches the power on to the motor. Heating coils or other resistance loads use a similar device called a contactor. Some control systems use solid-state power transistors called "triacs" to switch power on and off. Most motors will have a thermal overload contactor in series after the starter, which open up if too much current flows through the circuit, like if the machinery the motor is driving has locked up or jammed for some reason, or of the motor is bad.

Industrial controls are generally 120V AC, but some are 24V, particularly if the controls are operated by a Programmable Logic Controller (PLC). These are typically powered by 120 or 24 V, and use input and output (I/O) card modules to which the conductors to and from hand switches, proximity and limit switches, thermocouples, etc. are terminated. Outputs from the PLC go to other devices, solenoid valves, motor starters, contactors, etc., to "make things happen" according to the control program loaded in the PLC. More and more industrial controls are PLC-based, which offers incredible flexibility for making adjustments, changes, modifications, etc., to the machine or process being controlled. Naturally, there are a couple dozen manufacturers of PLCs, most of which have their own proprietary software but some interchange. The easy thing is that once you learn the software for a couple of manufacturers, you can "get the drift" of how PLCs from others work. Programming is done from a laptop or desktop PC connected directly to the PLC, or through a plant's Local Area Network. I do industrial PLC programming for almost 40 small manufacturing clients who can't afford a full-service engineering or electrical/instrument staff. They have electricians to replace overload heaters and do basic troubleshooting and repairs, but changes to the program based on modifications to the machine or process require tweaking of the program and a redesign/modification of the control panel and control system and that's when I get involved.

You would need to get training on all of the above concepts to be functional in an industrial environment. None of it is difficult, just different from residential wiring. The best place to do that would be night classes at the local vo-tech. If that doesn't work out due to scheduling, then see the instructors about buying/borrowing the reference materials, or auditing the course when you can. Most vo-techs have "labs" where students do hands-on work with all of the above devices.

Another place to check is the local electrical supply dealer. Often they have manuals, catalogs, and CD-ROMs of info on starters, overloads, contactors, PLCs, and so forth.

Too much more to cover, but HTH and good luck,

Noah

[Pogo]

My son started out as an apprentice for an electrical contractor that did both residential and commercial work. He went to night school and worked as an electrician for him for over 5 years and the owner died and the business closed down. Then, he went to work as an electrician for a general contractor that did work in both homes and heavy industry. That company then dropped the electrical work along with a couple of other trades. So, my son started his own business, and is doing quite well. You might consider that. :p

p.s. He much prefers industrial work over residential. There is a lot more money to be made in it.

[ark-and-spark]

I would agree with noah. Go to a vo-tech. Or as much as I hate to say it contact the IBEW [union] They have some good schools. I dont have any links. You might try a google search and see what you can come up with. Or you could just go to work for the guy and learn as you go. Just dont tell him you know something you do not. He'll figure it out real quick. If you have a good understanding of wiring you should do allright. It's all pretty much the same Power travels the same way in my house as it does in a wigget factory.

[custer]

Finding a guy that can wire up OEM machinery is like finding a diamond.

It is really different than residential or commercial work. It is an art and few guys can do it. Even when the machinery business is down, they are still in demand and the last to get laid off, if ever.

It's like the difference between a plumber and a pipefitter.

[thealien]

I have been a commercial, industrial, electrician since I was licensed in 1981. The money is in the commercial/industrial segment of the trade. There is some good money to be made in the residential side of the business if you work for yourself. I worked 8-10 years non union and the last 10-15 years Union. There are good and bad workers and situations on both sides of that fence. Union is safer work for better pay and benefits working with generally well trained electricians. The construction trades can have their slow times, but a good worker can always find a paycheck or side job. Also consider hospital maintenance or similar maintenance jobs. They don't pay as well but the benefits are excellant and you always know where tha work will be?

Good luck
Mark

[Krupski]

Originally posted by Bloodhart
I'm a journeyman electrician that has been doing something else for about 3 1/2 yrs. I was offered a job for about 5$ plus benefits more than the job I'm at which is general construction.

All you need to know is:

* Buy the latest National Electrical Code book and study it.
* If the motor rotates backwards, reverse any two phases.

Roger

[75_stingray]

Hello Bloodheart,
Tom Henry has some great tools for preparing yourself for either taking a state exam or just brushin up. I would highly recommend his products. I have his code book which comes already highlighted w/ quick refference page tabs. This alone would be a good starting point, but if you really wanted to get serious I would get his video's for preparing for the journymans licence also.
Good luck,

[upyurak]

as an electrician the main thing you must remember is : don`t stick your weenie into a light socket !

[75_stingray]

(as an electrician the main thing you must remember is : don`t stick your weenie into a light socket !)
Hahaha,
As children I had a friend who pissed in a wall socket
:rotflmao: Kind of funny,,,we're now both Industrial Elec. control's technician's.....I just call him Sparky

[gunnysmith]

http://www.mikeholt.com/freestuff.php?id=freegeneral

[gunnysmith]

Originally posted by custer
Finding a guy that can wire up OEM machinery is like finding a diamond.

It is really different than residential or commercial work. It is an art and few guys can do it. Even when the machinery business is down, they are still in demand and the last to get laid off, if ever.

It's like the difference between a plumber and a pipefitter.
You must be in industry, there aren't too many OEM startup/ install techs anymore. I mainly deal with diagnostic, repair but do startup once in a while. Strictly mining for the last 28 years. Drive systems and controls.

[custer]

Originally posted by gunnysmith
You must be in industry, there aren't too many OEM startup/ install techs anymore. I mainly deal with diagnostic, repair but do startup once in a while. Strictly mining for the last 28 years. Drive systems and controls.

Then you are part of the elite. Best of the best.

[Bloodhart]

Thanks for all the response. I should have outlined my electrical experience. I started in '93 at the tender age of 15. Like I stated I was trained by example which is IMO the best way to learn if you watch someone who knows his stuff. Like someone who doesn't stick his wienie in socket:p . The only disadvantage is that some areas don't get covered. When said mentor retired I started for another company who did quite a bit of industrial. One place named Systech was way over my head. The company dealt with hazmats which involved sniff tests every time you wanted to use electrical equip and so one. Cool stuff but left me feeling like I was drowning. I just didn't have the training.
On top of that most companies around this region refuse to properly train you because it causes the wages to go up. The reg. journeyman makes $11 to $13. And if you try to go get training on your own they accuse you of trying to go on your own and you find yourself getting all the sh!t jobs. I saw it happen enough to know better than to go that route. I quit while I was ahead.
The problem with the vo-tech idea is that I live 50 miles from the nearest one that offers quality education. All the closer votechs have teachers that don't know jack. Plus I'm strapped for cash which makes it hard to go to school. Already work 60-70hrs to support a wife and two kids with one on the way. The last one being an oops.:(
On the Tom Henry stuff I already have a lot of his material but it all seems to focus on passing your test. I also took his "how to pass your journeyman's" which IMO is essential to passing. At the seminar which was in Salina, KS, I was sufficiently impressed to buy a set of about 24 books. I haven't been able to learn much tech stuff from those. Most of them are just full of sample tests.
I had heard of Holts but forgotten. I will check that out farther.
BTW if anyone reading this is from Montrose CO area and is in the Elect. industry pm me. Thanks.

[gunnysmith]

Thank you for the complement Custer.


Bloodhart
Did you try the url I listed.
There is enough free information there to take one in training a long way toward the future.
And get a copy of NAVPERS
Navy electricians manual.

Try here

http://www.militarymanual.com/2_by_sea/us-navy-advancement-training/us-navy-advancement-electrical-neets-navy-training-series.html
It Will be your bible and the answer to all things unseen;)

[Bloodhart]

Originally posted by gunnysmith



Bloodhart
Did you try the url I listed.
There is enough free information there to take one in training a long way toward the future.
And get a copy of NAVPERS
Navy electricians manual.

Try here

http://www.militarymanual.com/2_by_sea/us-navy-advancement-training/us-navy-advancement-electrical-neets-navy-training-series.html
It Will be your bible and the answer to all things unseen;)

I quickly looked over the site on the free stuff. I am currently downloading some info on living costs and wage info in Montrose. As soon as I get thru that I'll start downloading some from that site. Looks promising thanks.
I've also been reading thru the American Electrecians handbook. Some of the stuff seems outdated. And it also seems aimed to people that are already trained. I have been able to learn some tho. I guess I am a little impatient. I've made up my mind and am ready to immerse myself in this but I still have to feed my family at the same time.

[75_stingray]

Hello Blood,
The best way to get the knowledge that you are looking for is to do what i have done. I started really late in life w/ this electrical thing(26yrs old) Nothing is gonna do better than on the job training. I started in the apprenticeship working my butt off and going to classes at night. While in the school I met alot of other people who worked in diff frields of the electrical buisness. I would heep my ears open as to who and what was paying the most $ and went for it. I switched from commercial to industrial and just soaked up everything that I could about high voltage, MCC's, control's,ect. Not someone to let myself get complacent I knew that I needed to move on to a company who specialized in Control's, retrofitting's, and Startup's. About 6yrs working with an outfit called Instament Control Services my knowlege and rep. started to grow, and befor long General Electric came knocking at my door. I took a job w/ them doin retrofits, new plant build's( chemical,paper mills,ect) A devorce looming in the near future forced me to step down to be closer to home but, I had worked my way up to a Site Superviser as well as an EH&S Specialist.
As of now I am contracted to the Robert Bosch Corp. as an Contol's Technician working right along side of the Electrical Engineer's. My job is to take only a set of prints and build that particular piece of equipment(ie-Robot) which will then be installed in some Bosch plant somewear throughout the world.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are not gonna find what youre looking for in some book, or school. Youre gonna have to make it happen on your own. I've seen my share of double E's who did'nt have any common since as far as what it took to complete a job! This comming from a beer drinkin surfer dude who didn't get his 1st job until 26, started as a $4.50 hr green helper, but kept his ear to the ground and made it happen.

Just get out there and make it happen!

[ninner]

If you want to learn the technical side of being an electrical maintance techninian ie ladder logic, ac theory, PLC's and power distrubition (in my area this id were the $ is) I would sugest www.isa.org they have the training materials your looking for.

[shooter_mickgaven]

electrical is for dummies. Be a plumber and make the real $$.

[gunnysmith]

Originally posted by shooter_mickgaven
electrical is for dummies. Be a plumber and make the real $$.

If one has to see shit in order to work on it. :rolleyes:

[75_stingray]

Originally posted by shooter_mickgaven
electrical is for dummies. Be a plumber and make the real $$.

:rofl:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that shit runs downhill.
I'd say go for it if ya think $15.00 is" the real $$" :rolleyes:

Hey dude, ya know that I'm just playin with ya?:p