Got a quick lesson on how ammo makes a difference!

[JE3146]

Went to a gun show today and picked up a few boxes of winchester Q3131A, and a couple boxes of Wolf .223... well went to my friends house after printing off a few of those iraqi targets on the general discussion ;) and proceeded to try out the new ammo... still haven't had a jam or a FTF of any sort... which I thought was impressive for having fired nearly 500 rounds from this gun, and... having a magazine mixed with various kinds of ammo.. and whatnot... single shot and rapid fire while plinking... runs like a champ no matter what i stick in it...

accuracy was on a different note though.... went plinking recently with Federal M193 which I bought in bulk.. and got the thing accurate as all get out on pretty much default settings.... I load in the winchester.. can't hit anything ... 10 yards.. to 50.. can't even hit a soda can... wolf... same diff..... then I load in a clip of Federal M193.. and its on the money 10 shots in a row... ranging from 10 to 50 yards.. blasted a pop can from 10 yards away shot after shot until it finally disintegrated at about 50 yards....

I guess I'll just stick to what makes my gun happy... I'd rather spend the 20 cents more a box and hit what i'm aiming at :rolleyes:

I expected the wolf to be innacurate.. but not the winchester.. this typical for that brand of ammo?

I do like the wolf though.. cus my girlfriend loves to shoot, but.. she cant keep the gun steady enough to hit anything... the randomness of wolf might better her odds of hitting something :D.. and its cheaper for me!:cool:

[saleen]

I have actually experienced accuracy from Wolf ranging from excellent (printed just under MOA with my Colt 20" HBAR and my 20" match A2 pre-ban from JT) to at least acceptable. I've experimented with it out to 300 yards with my A2 pre-ban and managed to hold all in at least the 9 ring which is good for me. This was with the 62gr FMJ round perhaps 3-4 years ago.

Wolf isn't usually great for accuracy, but then again niether is any mil-spec general purpose FMJ. Both are intended to put lead down range on target economically (2-3MOA is generally acceptable). If you literally can't hit something at 10 yards, you need to look further than the ammo to find the cause. Having said that, I will concede that I have had one incident with Wolf in which the target was missed at 15 yards.......entirely. It was definately ammo related because I noted that a significant portion of the bullet jacket had been shaved off. I was curious just how "off" the bullet would be so I stepped off 15 yards and took aim at a berm. The dirt splash was no where near my POA.

Unless your entire case of Wolf had this curious anomoly, I'll stand by my original assessment. If you haven't already done so, use a rest and start from 50 yards with a few. Move out to 100 and see if the groups open up. Even better, fix a cheap scope to the rifle to help your point of aim be more consistant and if you determine that the ammo is potentially faulty, contact Wolf. Don't burn up alot of it. Just use enough to "scientifically" exclude human error or weapon preference. If you do your job right and put a scope on the weapon, and it still won't shoot a 2-3" group at 50, there IS a problem with that lot of ammo IMHO. Also be sure to back it up immediately with another ammo type to rule out the weapon / shooter argument that Wolf may counter with.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


Saleen

[JE3146]

i did notice consistencies.. it was usually shooting high and left.. but I knew my gun was dead on accurate as far as I'll ever need it to be with M193(which i have close to 400 rounds of).. was just experimenting with a cheaper alternative.. for when I run out..


Now most of this could have been human error.. probably most out of frustration :mad:

but it just blew me away that at 30 yards.. one type of ammo was shooting 2 inches left and 1 inch high.. another type shooting 1 inch left.. and then a third type shooting dead on accurate with stock front site elevation, centered right/left, and an 8/3 on the height ...

this is no target rifle.. dont really want it to be... and it has proven to be accurate for pretty much all its desiged for..

16 inch M4gery with an A2 upper... has a 5.56 chamber and its chrome lined built out of FN, and Colt milspec parts.. for the most part I'd expect accuracy with military ammo.. seeing as its built like a military gun... asside from M4 feedramps, and select fire ;)


BTW.. didn't buy a case of wolf.. bought like 40 rounds(55grain FMJ) because of all the stories i've heard about it being tight in chambers... and bought 100 of the Q3131A because they didn't have any federal, and I've heard fairly decent things about it..

one tremendous thing I did notice was how much "hotter" loaded the M193 was compared to the other two.... the BANG.. and the flash from the weapon was probably 30% more with the M193... it was considerably noticeable..

[saleen]

POA/POI changes from one ammo to another are not at all uncommon. It doesn't seem to make much sense, but it is commonplace. And yes, the mil-spec M193 is HOT. Wolf, PMP, and other practice ammo are not loaded as hot, and the bullets themselves are not designed to do anything but destroy paper. They are practice / target ammo and designed accordingly (though they will do in a pinch). Other differences include cheaper powder without the flash-retardant additives, and that cheap powder is a good bit more nasty to clean up after as you no doubt have learned by comparison.

I just wish that the old SA M193 from SG could still be had by the tub using the old "free shipping" gimmick on their web sight. Free shipping for that kind of quantity really kept the per-round price down. Enough so that it didn't pay for me to buy Wolf:D

Unfortunately, I've almost exhausted my paultry 10,800 rounds over the past several years.:(


Saleen

[JE3146]

yea.. I knew wolf and stuff would be dirty.... I own an SKS and all it shoots is wolf...

wasn't a surprise when I saw that 40 rounds of wolf and 20 of winchester produced more buildup than 260 rounds of M193 :rolleyes:


wheres the cheepest you've lately seen M193?

I got all mine on sale at a local store for 3.29 a box... wish I had had more money at the time.. was only able to pick up 700 rounds..

came out cheaper than wholesalehunter.com after you included the 16$ shipping...

course the local store isn't bad at all... they offer a 5% discount by case.. so.. 500 is about 95$ regularly priced after the 5% off I beleive...

not terrible by any means.. just wondering if you've seen it cheaper online after shipping :D

[saleen]

I haven't really started shopping for new ammo yet. I still have a good amount of M855 to go through before I get to the shopping phase again.


Saleen