I bought a...

[RJ Shooter]

...fake Aimpoint!!!!!

I got one of the TacPoints that look just like an Aimpoint for the Beretta CX4 that I am gonna buy tomorrow!!!!

:D:D:D:D:D

I thought you guys would get a giggle out of that! :lool:

[StooperZero]

Hey if it works when you turn it on SO WHAT,,,,,,,,,,RIGHT,,,:D :D

[308]

RJ.....:useless:....:D

[RJ Shooter]

Don't get it till Tue or so... :D

[JE3146]

:useless:

btw.. let us know how the CX4 shoots.. I'm REAAALLY interested in buying one now that the hi-caps are back :)

[RJ Shooter]

Yeeee Haaaaaw, got'er today!!! ;)

Will post pics later...

[Epinephrine]

I would buy HK's crappy attepmt of a civi legal UMP45 before I would buy a useless CX4 Storm. But thats just my opinion. I hate carbines with pistol mags. Too politically correct!:p

[RJ Shooter]

Reason for hating a carbine just for using a pistol mag?

BTW, CX4s were designed for LEOs that carry a Beretta as a sidearm, to have a 50-100m accurate substitute to a shotgun - all while using one magazine system.

Unless you've actually handled one, you should probably reserve blind judgements. ;) The weapon is more akin to SMG size, than carbine size, while still having a 16" barrel! And I am suprised how comfortable it is...

Useless is a pretty "IGNORANT" statement IMHO. :rolleyes:

[Epinephrine]

I rented one at the local range this weekend and I thought it sucked but that is just me. Yes, it is comfortable but thats about the only plus I can see going for it. Now if Beretta would have gone the politically incorrect route and made the stock collapse, I could see that as a major plus for LEO's needing a very small but longer ranging arm than a pistol. Besides, how many cops actually use Berettas? Not many cops use something other than Glock as their primary weapon.

[RJ Shooter]

Many departments use Berettas. Especially the .40 versions. I personally dislike Beretta pistols, but Google this if you want to see some of the depts that use them. (police department + beretta)

As for the stock issue, it's an imported rifle. It couldn't have a collapsable/folder even if the ban didn't exist prior to it's creation.

By the way, what other pistol caliber carbines/SMGs have you gotten to fire Epi?

http://www.berettaworld.com/Moduli/ContentManager/publicimg/Cx4storm_IMG2.jpg
http://www.berettaworld.com/Moduli/ContentManager/publicimg/Cx4storm_IMG3.jpg

[RJ Shooter]

I've also noted other impressive features such as:

*changing ejection from right to left side;
*moving the charging handle to a favorite side, or both;
*Rails easily installed;
*changable stock length;
*caliber changes from 9mm to .40 to .45 with the same carbine;
*flip down iron sights for use with optic;
*cold hammer forged chrome lined barrels;
*price less than $550;
*overall length only 2.5" longer than an UZI SMG (not carbine) with stock extended!

I think it's got a lot more going for it than you give it credit for. But you are entitled to your personal opinion... ;)

[RJ Shooter]

Swingset's (here in the forums) little buddy...

http://home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Beretta_Storm_1.JPG

[RJ Shooter]

Originally posted by Epinephrine
I rented one at the local range this weekend and I thought it sucked but that is just me.By the way, what exactly "sucked?"

Accuracy?
Recoil?
Trigger Pull?
Sights?
Reliability?
Ergonomics?

If you haven't noticed, I am all over "blanket" statements like white on rice! ;)

Not liking something personally is one thing (I don't like Beretta pistols), but blanket slamming on a product, company, or member without factual basis for that posting, will have me asking the above and other questions to let the "truth" be known...

[308]

Originally posted by RJ Shooter
Swingset's (here in the forums) little buddy...

http://home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Beretta_Storm_1.JPG

Shhhhwwiinggg!!
Me likes that :D

They're kinda heavy little turds though.
So the choice would be...hmm, do I reach for that, or one of the twinz...:dunno: ;) :p

[RJ Shooter]

Heavy? They're 5.7lbs empty. That's only a little more than a pound heavier than a Carbon 15 without comp. ;)

I think they're light - of course until you start throwing rails, optics and grips on 'em - which I'm gonna do. :D

[UGACherokee]

Originally posted by RJ Shooter
As for the stock issue, it's an imported rifle. It couldn't have a collapsable/folder even if the ban didn't exist prior to it's creation.

Gotta correct you on this one, RJ. The Storm is made at Beretta's plant in Maryland.

[RJ Shooter]

Originally posted by UGACherokee
Gotta correct you on this one, RJ. The Storm is made at Beretta's plant in Maryland. ...and I gotta recorrect you on that UGA, it's made in Italy! :D ;) I'm not sure why they don't tool up to make them here.

Also, it says it right on the side, the box, etc... :p

I'm not misunderestimating ya though! :lool::rotflmao::lool:

[UGACherokee]

OK, I read an article last year at some point that said the Storm was going to be produced side by side with the M9/92FS in Accokeek, Maryland.

I stand corrected.

At any rate, I've never been a "semi-auto version of a subgun" fan, so I keep my pistol calibers in pistols and my rifle calibers in rifles, and never the twain shall meet. ;)

Glad your happy with your purchase, tho'.

[RJ Shooter]

They've also been saying their .40 & .45 versions / conversions would be available by Dec 2003, only 3 months away from being a year after that statement. ;)

With the carbine's popularity with civilians, gun writers and LE alike, I would imagine it being made here at some point.

And to clarify semantics a little bit, this rifle was never a select fire weapon. It was created as a semi-auto carbine for coppers. :D It's kinda unique like the Keltecs of the world.

[RJ Shooter]

Oh, and as a clarification, I was wrong about barrel length. It's 16.6" long, not 16". Kinda nice since it's as short as an SBR or an SMG. ;)

[JE3146]

RJ... you're hooking me on this gun.. cant afford it... cus of you I'm gonna have to cut up my CC :)..

but no really.. wheres the pics of yours :D

I'm really beginning to like the potential of this platform... I just really dont understand why they make it in Italy... other than to maybe cut production costs?

[RJ Shooter]

I'm waiting to get my rails in the mail before I start shooting some pics. The good Mec-Gar 20rd mags I ordered got backordered. :mad:

I guess I could take a pic of it neked tho' :p
_______________

I'm still waiting for Epi to tell me which part sucked! ;) I know the thumbhole does, but that's the rifle's design and I can live with it. I don't hear too many complaints about SVDs...

[RJ Shooter]

Originally posted by 308
So the choice would be...hmm, do I reach for that, or one of the twinz...:dunno: ;) :p 308, I was thinking the same thing since I've been playing with this little thing! It's so small, and easy to maneuver, I've wondered if it might become a "go-to" weapon!!! BLASPHEMY!!!!! ;)

Actually, if something goes bump in the night, I usually grab the Glock 22 with ITI M3x. Handguns are easier to use when searching a dark house, in my experience. Plus, that's the type of training I have had for the most part.

Too many choices... :D

[Castor Troy]

so, back to the original topic. is that tacpoint parallax free?

[RJ Shooter]

Don't know, it's supposed to be here by Thursday, even though I ordered it last week. :rolleyes:

I have heard that Aimpoints aren't completely parallax free, so if this is a close copy, I doubt it is as well...

[thedaledoe]

i want a storm.. just not up there on priorities.. but it has moved up since i held 1 at the show :up:

[308]

I'd like one in .40 S&W...but mags may be hard to find in high cap...like the Beretta96 11-rnd high caps...ooooo:rolleyes:
All seriousness aside though, me wallet has been itchin' lately and them pics is makin it itch even more...:D

[RJ Shooter]

Just wait till Thursday, when I get all my doo-dads! ;)

You can always get the 9mm and convert it to a 2-caliber weapon later...

And by the way, you get two free hi-caps from Beretta if you buy between now and Oct... ;)

[RJ Shooter]

These Pearce +2 extensions will make the magazines look better coming out of the grip as well. ;)
http://www.pearcegrip.com/images/brnhp_ber92.gif

[Epinephrine]

I have shot:

Colt 9mm SMG
Styer AUG PARA (VERY sweet)
Imgrams
IMI Uzi
and my favorite of all, though it isnt an SMG: HK21

One of my friends is a big time gun collector and he invites me up every once and awile to shoot his toys. Next time I got he is supposed to have gotten his MG42!

[thedaledoe]

NO, Must... resist... buying one.... college money is for food and rent....... not guns.... ahh shit.. im screwed :D

[308]

Originally posted by thedaledoe
NO, Must... resist... buying one.... college money is for food and rent....... not guns.... ahh shit.. im screwed :D
Deferered gratification is a hard discipline, but the future reward is well worth the wait.

[thedaledoe]

l
l
l
l
l
l
v

[thedaledoe]

Originally posted by 308
Deferered gratification is a hard discipline, but the future reward is well worth the wait.

Thats what my last girlfriend used to always say..WIERD. :rolleyes:








Wonder how she is doing..:D :lool:

[thedaledoe]

dunno what happened there.. i got 2 of the same posts... :(

[RJ Shooter]

FakePoint pics to be added soon. Nice little $100 optic, but very obvious muzzle side signature from the LED. Doesn't AimPoint have the same problem, requiring a KillFlash to be added for that and the lens reflection?

EOTech doesn't have a signature or reflection problem. ;)

[thedaledoe]

Originally posted by RJ Shooter
FakePoint pics to be added soon. Nice little $100 optic, but very obvious muzzle side signature from the LED. Doesn't AimPoint have the same problem, requiring a KillFlash to be added for that and the lens reflection?

EOTech doesn't have a signature or reflection problem. ;)

Sounds more like the Trijicon reflex sights than the Aimpoints. ;)

[RJ Shooter]

Actually, AimPoint claims that past 10 meters their muzzle side signature is not detectable. But that means it is detectable. ;)

:D

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by RJ Shooter
By the way, what exactly "sucked?"

Accuracy?
Recoil?
Trigger Pull?
Sights?
Reliability?
Ergonomics?



Accuracy was very comparable to a Styr PARA, a good thing.

Recoil was a little harsh compared to the PARA.

Trigger could use some major work. Poor takeup and quite a bit of slop.

Sights could have been better. Peeps were fine but the thick plastic wings block alot of your periferial vision.

So far reliability seems adiquate.

Ergos are fine except for the gay PC thumbhole stock. Plus I just dont like carbines with pistol mags.

[RJ Shooter]

Originally posted by Epinephrine
(A) Accuracy was very comparable to a Styr PARA, a good thing.

(B) Recoil was a little harsh compared to the PARA.

(C) Trigger could use some major work. Poor takeup and quite a bit of slop.

(D) Sights could have been better. Peeps were fine but the thick plastic wings block alot of your periferial vision.

(E) So far reliability seems adiquate.

(F) Ergos are fine except for the gay PC thumbhole stock. Plus I just dont like carbines with pistol mags. Allow me to retort! ;)

(A) As I posted in another thread today, GunsWeek did a test of the rifle and loved it. They were getting an average of 1.5" 50M groups of SIXTEEN rounds while STANDING. That's 3MOA with 16 rounds of ammo!

(B) Recoil is comparable to a .22 in just about every review I have read. Kinda odd for you to say it was harsh. :letssee:

(C) I've already reduced my trigger by 3lbs, and she breaks at about 5lbs rather than the standard 8. It's still better than ANY bullpup's trigger (AUG). The sponginess in a bullpup's trigger cannot be fixed due to the long transfer bar.

(D) Since I shoot mainly both eyes open with a carbine, I see through the protective wings just fine. I also love the size of the peeps and the front post! Interesting you brought this up since you choose the Aimpoint that limits vision by about 50% compared to an EOTech. ;) :p

(E) With factory mags, I've heard ZERO horror stories about reliability. I just got some 30's today, and their followers seem to be their issue. Utter JUNK, but I think I can get them to work without much difficulty. I have some factory 20's on order, just waiting for them to arrive. Add the Pearce +2s, and she'll look rather nice.

(F) Take a look at the new pics I posted with the Pearce +2 extensions on them. They look better than a standard floorplate, making it look less like a pistol mag, and more like a mag made for the weapon. Other than the bar running from the pistol grip (large thumbhole I guess - but is required for the rigidity of the stock), I think ergos are outstanding.

;)

[thedaledoe]

RJ you got me sold. :D

[Castor Troy]

now all we need is a review of that tacpoint :D

[thedaledoe]

now all we need is a review of that tacpoint :D

Yes sir RJ we need a review.. im thinking about getting one of these to save me 300 bucks.. Ill get hte real stuff when I have a job and make money.:rolleyes:

[swampdragon]

Accuracy was very comparable to a Styr PARA, a good thing.

Recoil was a little harsh compared to the PARA.

Trigger could use some major work. Poor takeup and quite a bit of slop.

Sights could have been better. Peeps were fine but the thick plastic wings block alot of your periferial vision.

So far reliability seems adiquate.

Ergos are fine except for the gay PC thumbhole stock. Plus I just dont like carbines with pistol mags.
Lil' Dude,

After reading and participating in another thread on this forum a while back, I too, just recently went and test fired a Storm at a local gun store/indoor range. RJ and Swingset seemed to really get me interested.
The sights are fine for what they are designed for.
The weapon had pretty damned good accuracy.
If you thought the recoil was "harsh," maybe you should redirect the term "gay" towards yourself, instead of the thumbhole stock?

[thedaledoe]

Lighten up man. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Dont know why you dragged this thread up just to call someone gay. This thread ended over a month ago. Kinda sad :rolleyes:

[swampdragon]

Lighten up man. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Dont know why you dragged this thread up just to call someone gay. This thread ended over a month ago. Kinda sad :rolleyes:
If that's the case, then I'm entitled to my opinion too......

[thedaledoe]

True.. I guess that makes you an opinionated asshole then dont it.

[swampdragon]

If that's your opinion of me, then it's OK with me. After all, you're entitled to your opinion too..............

The point I was making is that the 9mm Storm has very little kick at all, and also, just because it has a thumbhole stock, that doesn't make it gay. Pay attention a little bit.........

[thedaledoe]

First of alll nobody called the thumbhole stock gay. Only person that used "gay" in this thread is you when you basically told epinephrine was gay because he said the recoil on the storm was harsh. I never said anything about any stock so it is you that needs to pay attention. State your opinions all you want, but when you start insulting people you dont know jsut cuz you disagree with them then you are an asshole as I mentioned earlier. :)

Ok, Epi did call the thumbhole stock gay.. regardless.. leave the insults at the door. We try to keep things a little more civil here then on the AK side.

[swampdragon]

Whatever Bro..........

I bet you voted for Kerry?
Don't talk to me anymore, and I'll return the favor.
Epi didn't ask you to fight his battles.
If it bothered him, and he was a real man, he would have defended himself all by his self. Since he did not fight back, then either it didn't bother him, or he just didn't have it in him to do so to begin with.
Maybe you should just mind your own business to start with.
Find something better to do.
I know I'm going to. I'm finished with you.........

By the way, you contradicted yourself in your own post, but at least you paid attention to "that."

[thedaledoe]

I voted for Bush and I hope Kerry burns in hell. Keep your degrading comments to yourself and we wont have a problem. Im not the kind of person that can ignore such things whether its directed at me or someone I happen to like. That is why i said what I did. I dont back down from anyone, its not in my character. Doesnt look like Epi has even been around for a while, im sure he will make a comment of his own when he has time. Until then, you're done, im done.

[swampdragon]

Sorry I offended your delicate sensitivities Honey.......... later....

[thedaledoe]

Honey?? :lool:

[JE3146]

must be something with the CX4 threads that just attract fighting...:dunno:

[swampdragon]

must be something with the CX4 threads that just attract fighting...:dunno:
OK, I'm a big enough man to admit that maybe I shouldn't have called epi gay. But he should not have called the thumbhole stock on the Storm gay either. There is nothing we can currently do about the import laws, and the weapon still functions fine with the thumbhole stock. And the 9mm Storm doesn't have a HARSH kick.
Awe, the hell with it.........epi's a girllie man.......

[thedaledoe]

:lool:

[mywifehatesguns]

Since we're still hashing it out I will throw in my 2 cents. I think the ergonomics are great and I was very surprised at the accuracy even out to 100 yards. You would not expect that from a 9mm. I give them an A+++. Not to mention the rate of fire when you are bumping it is amazing.

RJ Shooter,

In one of your earlier posts, did you say that you can switch the ejection and charging to either side? I did not notice that on the one that I shot. That is pretty amazing. The southpaws will love that.

[swampdragon]

Since we're still hashing it out I will throw in my 2 cents. I think the ergonomics are great and I was very surprised at the accuracy even out to 100 yards. You would not expect that from a 9mm. I give them an A+++. Not to mention the rate of fire when you are bumping it is amazing.

RJ Shooter,

In one of your earlier posts, did you say that you can switch the ejection and charging to either side? I did not notice that on the one that I shot. That is pretty amazing. The southpaws will love that.
Check out Beretta's website. They show all kinds of cool stuff about the Storm.

If I'm not mistaken, you can put the charging handle on the right, and have it eject either left or right. You can put the charging handle on the left, and still have it eject left or right. That's pretty freakin' cool......

[RJ Shooter]

I bought an exta charging handle so I now have them on both sides!!! This allows me to charge the carbine with either hand. ;)

...and yes, you can change the eject path from right to left. :p

[thedaledoe]

nice

[swampdragon]

I bought an exta charging handle so I now have them on both sides!!! This allows me to charge the carbine with either hand. ;)

...and yes, you can change the eject path from right to left. :p
RJ, double charging handels? That's cool!
As much as I know you really love the Storm. Do you have any opinions at all about the Vector UZI?
I'm really torn between the two............

[RJ Shooter]

I like UZIs, but prefer MACs if I'm going with a fake subgun. UZIs are heavy and sometimes unwieldy with the 16" barrel. If I were going the SBR or SMG route, I'd probably get one. But to keep it at 16", I'd get an MP5 clone instead...

But that's just me.

[swampdragon]

I like UZIs, but prefer MACs if I'm going with a fake subgun. UZIs are heavy and sometimes unwieldy with the 16" barrel. If I were going the SBR or SMG route, I'd probably get one. But to keep it at 16", I'd get an MP5 clone instead...

But that's just me.
The only MP5 clones I've seen lately are WAAAAY out of my price range, sadly.
I like the folding stock on the Vector UZI, and the fact that you can have two different barrel lengths. Can stocks be added to the MAC, and how available are they?

[RJ Shooter]

You can't put a stock on a pistol without an SBR permit, and MACs are considered pistols. I've owned a couple of M11/9s and liked them alot, but they were only a novelty to me, so I sold them.

The full size Vector UZIs are considered carbines, so the stocks can be on there. But if you put a barrel of less than 16" on there, you're in violation of federal law. ;)

I think the short barrel that comes with the Vectors is a non-functioning display barrel...

[swampdragon]

You can't put a stock on a pistol without an SBR permit, and MACs are considered pistols. I've owned a couple of M11/9s and liked them alot, but they were only a novelty to me, so I sold them.

The full size Vector UZIs are considered carbines, so the stocks can be on there. But if you put a barrel of less than 16" on there, you're in violation of federal law. ;)

I think the short barrel that comes with the Vectors is a non-functioning display barrel...
Yes, I do understand that you need the $200 Tax Stamp for the UZI if you want the 10"? barrel.
I don't really like how the 16" barrel looks on the UZI. But, I've seen some pics where people have put a ventilated barrel shroud over the 16" barrel, and the appearance improved dramatically. ("I" think)
I would "think" that the 16" barrel, in general, would benefit the 9mm round a little bit in accuracy and velocity though. Am I wrong about this?
I believe the Beretta Storm's barrel is in the 16" neighborhood as well.

[JWL]

OK....ENOUGH TEASING......where are the pics of the fakepoint? :confused: :big:

[JE3146]

OK....ENOUGH TEASING......where are the pics of the fakepoint? :confused: :big:

He's quite good at making people wait...

It's only been a year ;)... atleast...

[JWL]

Ouch! Still want to see is as I am thiking of a similar set up.