saiga 12 ideas/questions

[masakari]

i just ordered a saiga 12..primarily because as far as shotguns go...this is a bad MOFO!!! i shot one at the range a few weeks ago and had to have one.

i have a few questions concerning shotgun legalities...i wanted to get a saiga and set it up similar to the saiga 12 K
( http://club.guns.ru/eng/sig12/2.htm )

I noticed that the civilian version is much similar to the saiga series rifles...the fire controll seams to be a bit farther back in the receiver and the barrel is much longer ( not sure what legal shotgun barrel size is)

I figured i could beat the expensive retrofit of moving the fire controll group by simply adding a "box" made of lite gauge metal to the back of the receiver and tig welding it all in place...i wanted to add a pistol grip and get a underfolder to mount on it...maybe if i went all out, i would take the thing to a gunsmith and have it cut down to the minum legal barrel length as well...so is any of what i want to do here legal? or should i forget the gun modification buisness and stick to collecting stamps???

oops, wrong forum...moderator please kill this thread

[DYI]

Just convert it to a real pistol grip AK! Its way easy! I did mine the night of the ban and was the first gunsmith operation I had ever attempted. Check out my pics for some idea of what it looks like. I cut the barrel down to legal length myself with a pipe cutter, hacksaw, and some sand paper. She bullseyes slugs all day long so I must have done something right. Total cost was about $80 including the side folding stock.


http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/29580pic10-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/29580pic15-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/29580pic05-med.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/29580pic02-med.jpg



i just ordered a saiga 12..primarily because as far as shotguns go...this is a bad MOFO!!! i shot one at the range a few weeks ago and had to have one.

i have a few questions concerning shotgun legalities...i wanted to get a saiga and set it up similar to the saiga 12 K
( http://club.guns.ru/eng/sig12/2.htm )

I noticed that the civilian version is much similar to the saiga series rifles...the fire controll seams to be a bit farther back in the receiver and the barrel is much longer ( not sure what legal shotgun barrel size is)

I figured i could beat the expensive retrofit of moving the fire controll group by simply adding a "box" made of lite gauge metal to the back of the receiver and tig welding it all in place...i wanted to add a pistol grip and get a underfolder to mount on it...maybe if i went all out, i would take the thing to a gunsmith and have it cut down to the minum legal barrel length as well...so is any of what i want to do here legal? or should i forget the gun modification buisness and stick to collecting stamps???

oops, wrong forum...moderator please kill this thread

[masakari]

that is a thing of beauty!!!! exactly how i want to do mine except i want an underfolder.....can you give me details of how you moved the trigger forward? i figured that woudl be a difficult task

[1st Ranger]

I aggree with DYI, do it yourself! I put a little over $100 in mine (when you factor in shipping and stuff). Here's what I had to purchase:

G2 FCG, single hook - $40 (Tapco)
Bulgy Trigger guard - $8 (K people)
Bulgy Selector Stop - $5 (K people)
US made Stock - $40 (K people)
Elbow Grease - $cheap and plentiful

It was a lot of fun, and I feel so much more pride in my S-12 than I did before.

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/4045S-12_Full.jpg
:jerkoff:

[masakari]

oh, i see...you didnt move the trigger forward...just took the guard off...did you have to modify anything to install the pistol grip?

I aggree with DYI, do it yourself! I put a little over $100 in mine (when you factor in shipping and stuff). Here's what I had to purchase:

G2 FCG, single hook - $40 (Tapco)
Bulgy Trigger guard - $8 (K people)
Bulgy Selector Stop - $5 (K people)
US made Stock - $40 (K people)
Elbow Grease - $cheap and plentiful

It was a lot of fun, and I feel so much more pride in my S-12 than I did before.

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/4045S-12_Full.jpg
:jerkoff:

is there a step by step anywhere on what you do to move the trigger?

[integratedj]

Here is a step by step
Saiga conversion (http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/)
Ignore the part about the bullet feed ramp, that only applies to the rifles. Just look at the trigger group relocation and pistol grip add.
You will not be able to use a regular shepperds hook in the shotgun though, so get a couple of "E" clips and use them to hold the trigger and hammer axis pins in place.
If you live in Arizona by some small chance I will do it for you simply for a 6 pack of Kilt lifters and the enjoyment of it. Or better yet, I'll simply help you along and let you do most of it. I have done 7 now, and have done things a little differently each time. I wish mine was not the first, because I have much cleaner looking ways of doing things now.

If you are in another state, just follow the conversion guide above, and ask us all the questions you need.
IJ

[masakari]

i appreciate the offer, but im in ohio...Very good step by step layout...i guess its not as hard as i thought it would be...thanks for the help!..i will post pics when i get done and im sure i will be back to ask a few questions during the modification

[BigAl]

Looks Good!! I used to see them advertised in SGN alot, but not anymore. Who is selling them now??

[masakari]

another question, whats minimum barrel length..and from where do you measure to get that length...Im just curious because i saw a shotgun for sale at the local gunshop (ithica 12 i think) that was considerably shorter then the one the DYI has posted..i would say it was no longer then the actual saiga 12k..couldnt have been more then 2 feet long including the receiver...anyways, thanks for all the information thus far guys

[D Boone]

I did my 12 a couple weeks ago. G2 single hook, US made Pistol Grip and Stock. Reused the exsisting Selector Stop and Trigger Guard... Easy and Fun!

[DYI]

Shotgun barrel min length is 18"

You could chop it down to 14" if you silver solder a 4" flash hider on it.

Empty the chamber, close the bolt, and drop the cleaning rod down the barrel until it hits the bolt head. That is the easiest way to measure barrel length.

another question, whats minimum barrel length..and from where do you measure to get that length...Im just curious because i saw a shotgun for sale at the local gunshop (ithica 12 i think) that was considerably shorter then the one the DYI has posted..i would say it was no longer then the actual saiga 12k..couldnt have been more then 2 feet long including the receiver...anyways, thanks for all the information thus far guys

[masakari]

they make flash hiders for shotguns??? where can you find one of those at?

[integratedj]

last I heard the ATI made ones were crap. Go to the forum at saiga12.com. there are a lot of us over there as well, and it is centered on the saiga shotguns.
If you have any questions about your measurements, the easiest way to double check them is to remove the pistol grip from any other ak that you have and check your measurements against that. They should be the same as a standard ak, except for where the trigger gaurd lines up.

When you do your conversion, Do not cut off the rivet that holds the safety stop onto the bottom of the receiver. simply use a dremel with a cutoff wheel to remove the rest of the plate that covores the trigger hole. otherwise you will need to either re weld or screw it into place.

[Polish Boy]

How does the saiga flash hider mount?

[integratedj]

There is one actually made in russia for the saiga12. I have not seen it in person, but I believe it screws onto the threads on the 19 in model. They also are talking about a combo flash hider/ standard AK front sight.

[masakari]

There is one actually made in russia for the saiga12. I have not seen it in person, but I believe it screws onto the threads on the 19 in model. They also are talking about a combo flash hider/ standard AK front sight.

that front sight/flash hider would be pretty slick looking, wonder what the odds are that it will make it over here

[Polish Boy]

I meant the one that the saiga12 forum uses with the clamp on front site block.

[Tomac]

I had mine done professionally by Elite Firearms of Hurst, TX. I supplied the Tapco SAW-style AK pistol grip, $480 & the Romy folder and they delivered a new Saiga-12 w/18.5" bbl, gas port opened slightly to compensate for the shorter bbl, US fcg & the entire shotgun refinished in DuraCoat. I liked it so much that I ordered a 2nd from them!
Tomac
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/Saiga-12001s.jpg

[Dr Kung Pao]

you guys with your bulgy stocks on your saigas.. thats gotta hurt. Maybe the point is you dont use the stock?

An underfolder saiga would be dope as hell... GO NOW AND BUILD!!

http://www.assaulttech.com/

I found these guys. dont know if they have them in stock. I need to get on the ball and get one before I regret it. Im always a few projects behind everyone else on the board! ;)

Hey whats the deal with shortening the barrell under 14 and registering it as a DD?

[D Boone]

I bought my Saiga 12 from those guys.... Their store is just below Charlotte, NC... Seems like I buy something from them every gun show I go too. They seem like nice guys and most of there stuff is reasonably priced. I agree, those side folders have gotta hurt. I had thought about putting an underfolder on mine, I couldn't decide if that style of stock could stand the recoil abuse. It would look sweet though...

[masakari]

my saiga 12 has arrived...had to get the 22 inch barrel but all and all its a very nice shotty...waiting for the underfolder and the fcg to get here...stay tuned!


I NEED MAGS! anyone know where to get them? cdnn is sold out

[steelcore1964]

http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-deact_magazines.htm

[masakari]

http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-deact_magazines.htm


thats a really cool link...i wonder if they ship internationally? and im not sure exactly what the pound/dollar conversion is but im thinking that those are pretty expensive

[masakari]

i went ahead and ordered a few of them...If my math is correct these things are pound for pound more expensive then gold...but wtf right?

[Dr Kung Pao]

dollar for dollar so is marijuanna. The governement has created a golden crop. but wtf, right?

Congrats on the saiga. i am eager to see the pics with the underfolder stock. I would be surprised if the blast doesnt shake it to pieces, but no doubt it will look cool as freakin hell!

[Tomac]

The recoil using the Romy folder is surprisingly tolerable. Add the Bulgarian strap-on AK recoil pad and recoil's no longer a problem.
Tomac

[Dr Kung Pao]

Tomac, I live in Caldwell Idaho. Nice to meet you!

[Tomac]

Tomac, I live in Caldwell Idaho. Nice to meet you!

Small world, Dr Pao! Maybe we should hook up and head out to the Parma range sometime (ever been to the Parma range?) Drop me an email sometime!
Tomac
tomac47@cableone.net

[Dr Kung Pao]

I generally walk the desert out @ sand hollow. I like the lonesome aspect of it. Heck yeah I would love to get together some time. I've been doing this all by myself for the last year. For some reason, all my friends cant get over thinking what im doing by building legal rifles is "illegal." hahhaha...

[Tomac]

I generally walk the desert out @ sand hollow. I like the lonesome aspect of it. Heck yeah I would love to get together some time. I've been doing this all by myself for the last year. For some reason, all my friends cant get over thinking what im doing by building legal rifles is "illegal." hahhaha...

Sounds good, I'm usually free on weekends, just got to check the range schedule to be sure it isn't being used for a competition or match of some sort. I know what you mean, I had someone at the range walk up to me and declare my EG 5.45 30rd mag as "illegal"!
Tomac

[wjm]

thats a really cool link...i wonder if they ship internationally? and im not sure exactly what the pound/dollar conversion is but im thinking that those are pretty expensive

The price of the 8 round mags is high, but these guys deliver the goods. Based on today's exchange rate, 44 GPS = $81.62. I bought a couple 8 rounders from them a few weeks ago -- cost me $168 shipped.

Hopefully, someone will start importing these mags at a reasonable price.

[masakari]

The price of the 8 round mags is high, but these guys deliver the goods. Based on today's exchange rate, 44 GPS = $81.62. I bought a couple 8 rounders from them a few weeks ago -- cost me $168 shipped.

Hopefully, someone will start importing these mags at a reasonable price.
yeah, my math put it at about 177...but you cant find 8 rounders anywhere so its worth the extra cost to have something unique