aksforme
11-17-2004, 02:43 AM
Slamfire posted some great progress pics and details in another thread here. I just wanted to add a couple of things:
The Saiga 12 is IMHO arguably probably the best tactical shotty in the world. I use it in IDPA and 3gun tactical competition pretty successfully against alot of more seasoned "conventional" shotty shooters (1100s, 870s, Mossies, Benellis, etc.)
I would recommend you start with the 19" "Defender" with the threaded barrel, if you can find one. The threaded muzzle allows you to change chokes if you want, or make a pretty effective brake from the cylinder bore attachment if you want to (I did). Also, you will save having to cut the 22" barrel down. ALso, it has come standard with the bolt hold-open behind the trigger since about 2001-2002. The BHO not only makes the gun range-friendly, but I recently discovered why it is located just behind and to the right of the trigger. I was shooting an IDPA stage that required firing some slugs on paper targets and some buck shot on steel poppers. My last buck target was shot from behind the cover of a barrel I had just ran to. As I came around the right side of the barrel, I was firing my last buck shot target. I pressed the BHO with the top middle of my trigger finger as I squeezed off the shot. The bolt stayed open as if it was a last round in an AR, and I switched out the mags that I have clamped together to get my slug mag loaded with my left hand. Saigas load much easier if the bolt is open. I usde my left hand to release the bolt and took the three papers with all headshots. I had the fastest time of the bunch. That's why the BHO is where it is.
Like Slamfire, I left the factory selector stop and recycled the trigger guard and notched out the front of the cover plate to fit around the mag release. The hardest part was drilling through the spot weld at the front of the guard for the 8 x 32 stainless screw that holds the guard on. That was a bear. I went through a bunch of carbide and cobalt bits.
I refinished the gun with Brownell's Alumahyde II, matte black. It's a good tough finish, and it's cheap. I degreased with naptha and left the Russian engine paint on as a bonding primer. It was bonded to the gun well, so it didn't make sense to strip it.
Being an AK, the Saiga 12 has considerably less recoil because of the reciprocating AK action. But still, it is a handful, so I felt the TAPCO M-249 SAW grip was better suited to my large hands as far as control goes. Also, Izhmash has recently put out the Saiga 12 SWAT, which I think is the ultimate tactical shotgun, and it has a grip that looks alot more like the SAW grip than it does the standard AK grip. I figured that was for a reason, and when I shot mine I realized that it is: comfortable control. I found that the hardware that came with the TAPCO grip didn't make much sense, even though people use it. I used a 1/4" carriage bolt. The square on the head of the bolt fits in the existing slot in the receiver perfectly, and the bolt is much stronger than the TAPCO hardware or any standard AK grip screw. I used some quick-set epoxy putty with some fiberglass cloth snipped up and kneaded into it to make up for the fact that the bolt head does not rest on the receiver bottom because of the angle of the grip. Once the putty is set, torque the grip down and it isn't going anywhere. I set the grip the same distance back from the trigger as a standard AK. That resulted in a gap between the guard and the grip that cut into my middle finger od my trigger hand. I roughed up the grip side and filled it with some more epoxy putty.
As far as a stock goes, the Russian issue Saiga 12C has always had a AK-74-style left-side folder. Not wanting to have to sweat accessing the selector, or the bolt clearing the stock if I choose to fire it while folded (which it does like a charm), I wanted a left folder. The ACE Galil-style stock is perfect for the gun. It's light and more than strong. I measured the length that would be good for me, which was 11". The ACE AK receiver block, with the folder, with the "short" stock and the 1" rubber recoil pad equalled exactly the 11" I needed.
I wanted the tactical control option of a forward PG as well as an equipment rail for lighting, so I went with the TDI AR equipment rail and the TDI contoured forward grip. I mounted the rail far enough ahead so thew TDI light mount would fit in front of the PG. Three screws will mount the rail. Keep the screw holes just large enough for a good snug fit on the rail screw flanges. Then there's no chance of rocking the rail and stressing the screws. You will have to level the inside bottom of the forend with more epoxy putty because it is stepped with a lower left side.
I added a standard AK sling swivel from one of my spare wooden AK stocks to the forend, which is secured with two 8 x 32 stainless screws with the nuts on the inside. You may have to ggive the inside of the forend a quick dremmel grind to keep the nuts recessed enough so as not to contact the gas block.
Add Kobra optics and you are good to go.
Here's the Saiga SWAT I was shooting for.
http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/post-2-1062656157.jpg
http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/post-2-1092705303.jpg
One more important point, guys. These are fine shotguns for any general purpose as they are. It would be a shame to see them declared DDs like the Streetsweepers and the USAS just because a few guys get silly and greedy and make a drum for the Saiga. It would be a bitch to hump around, and the BATFE will surely declare it permanently banned as a DD. If you do get a crazy urge to make a higher capacity mag for it. . .keep it your secret and DON?T post pics of it on forums like these.
Here's mine.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02160-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02156-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02152-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02151-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02161-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817selector_stop-med.JPG
The Saiga 12 is IMHO arguably probably the best tactical shotty in the world. I use it in IDPA and 3gun tactical competition pretty successfully against alot of more seasoned "conventional" shotty shooters (1100s, 870s, Mossies, Benellis, etc.)
I would recommend you start with the 19" "Defender" with the threaded barrel, if you can find one. The threaded muzzle allows you to change chokes if you want, or make a pretty effective brake from the cylinder bore attachment if you want to (I did). Also, you will save having to cut the 22" barrel down. ALso, it has come standard with the bolt hold-open behind the trigger since about 2001-2002. The BHO not only makes the gun range-friendly, but I recently discovered why it is located just behind and to the right of the trigger. I was shooting an IDPA stage that required firing some slugs on paper targets and some buck shot on steel poppers. My last buck target was shot from behind the cover of a barrel I had just ran to. As I came around the right side of the barrel, I was firing my last buck shot target. I pressed the BHO with the top middle of my trigger finger as I squeezed off the shot. The bolt stayed open as if it was a last round in an AR, and I switched out the mags that I have clamped together to get my slug mag loaded with my left hand. Saigas load much easier if the bolt is open. I usde my left hand to release the bolt and took the three papers with all headshots. I had the fastest time of the bunch. That's why the BHO is where it is.
Like Slamfire, I left the factory selector stop and recycled the trigger guard and notched out the front of the cover plate to fit around the mag release. The hardest part was drilling through the spot weld at the front of the guard for the 8 x 32 stainless screw that holds the guard on. That was a bear. I went through a bunch of carbide and cobalt bits.
I refinished the gun with Brownell's Alumahyde II, matte black. It's a good tough finish, and it's cheap. I degreased with naptha and left the Russian engine paint on as a bonding primer. It was bonded to the gun well, so it didn't make sense to strip it.
Being an AK, the Saiga 12 has considerably less recoil because of the reciprocating AK action. But still, it is a handful, so I felt the TAPCO M-249 SAW grip was better suited to my large hands as far as control goes. Also, Izhmash has recently put out the Saiga 12 SWAT, which I think is the ultimate tactical shotgun, and it has a grip that looks alot more like the SAW grip than it does the standard AK grip. I figured that was for a reason, and when I shot mine I realized that it is: comfortable control. I found that the hardware that came with the TAPCO grip didn't make much sense, even though people use it. I used a 1/4" carriage bolt. The square on the head of the bolt fits in the existing slot in the receiver perfectly, and the bolt is much stronger than the TAPCO hardware or any standard AK grip screw. I used some quick-set epoxy putty with some fiberglass cloth snipped up and kneaded into it to make up for the fact that the bolt head does not rest on the receiver bottom because of the angle of the grip. Once the putty is set, torque the grip down and it isn't going anywhere. I set the grip the same distance back from the trigger as a standard AK. That resulted in a gap between the guard and the grip that cut into my middle finger od my trigger hand. I roughed up the grip side and filled it with some more epoxy putty.
As far as a stock goes, the Russian issue Saiga 12C has always had a AK-74-style left-side folder. Not wanting to have to sweat accessing the selector, or the bolt clearing the stock if I choose to fire it while folded (which it does like a charm), I wanted a left folder. The ACE Galil-style stock is perfect for the gun. It's light and more than strong. I measured the length that would be good for me, which was 11". The ACE AK receiver block, with the folder, with the "short" stock and the 1" rubber recoil pad equalled exactly the 11" I needed.
I wanted the tactical control option of a forward PG as well as an equipment rail for lighting, so I went with the TDI AR equipment rail and the TDI contoured forward grip. I mounted the rail far enough ahead so thew TDI light mount would fit in front of the PG. Three screws will mount the rail. Keep the screw holes just large enough for a good snug fit on the rail screw flanges. Then there's no chance of rocking the rail and stressing the screws. You will have to level the inside bottom of the forend with more epoxy putty because it is stepped with a lower left side.
I added a standard AK sling swivel from one of my spare wooden AK stocks to the forend, which is secured with two 8 x 32 stainless screws with the nuts on the inside. You may have to ggive the inside of the forend a quick dremmel grind to keep the nuts recessed enough so as not to contact the gas block.
Add Kobra optics and you are good to go.
Here's the Saiga SWAT I was shooting for.
http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/post-2-1062656157.jpg
http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/post-2-1092705303.jpg
One more important point, guys. These are fine shotguns for any general purpose as they are. It would be a shame to see them declared DDs like the Streetsweepers and the USAS just because a few guys get silly and greedy and make a drum for the Saiga. It would be a bitch to hump around, and the BATFE will surely declare it permanently banned as a DD. If you do get a crazy urge to make a higher capacity mag for it. . .keep it your secret and DON?T post pics of it on forums like these.
Here's mine.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02160-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02156-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02152-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02151-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817DSC02161-med.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/28817selector_stop-med.JPG