I got my Saiga-12. So there.

[Buster Charlie]

Yeah I paid too much for it, yes its ugly camo version. But it's mine damnit, and nobody can take that from me!

I decided to bite the bullet, get the last one my local FFL had in stock. I can't wait to shoot it.

Any advice on how to remove the weird ass camo paint without melting the plastic?



Pics to follow..

[daemon734]

i think that camo one looks like crap. i dont think theres anything you can do to make it less trashy without completely replacing the stock. whatever you do dont modify it in any way though. you really shouldve gotten a benelli, its far superior, but i guess we can overlook that. BTW, why isnt this thread in the GWD forum?









































just messin with ya. congrats!

[Vampire]

Congrats :)

That's on my short list as well.

[zidane]

I too just got my ffl's last Saiga 12. You could try that plasti-kote stuff, i've tried it on pistol grips before and it does a good job.

[Buster Charlie]

some crappy pics

http://img44.exs.cx/img44/2562/saiga128sa.jpg

http://img44.exs.cx/img44/8418/saiga12a6qs.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/7436/saiga12b7yx.jpg

[Cevulirn]

Go blast something for me when you get a chance, will ya? I won't be able to afford one for a while.

[Tomac]

You can keep your Benelli's (or whatever...). Loved my first Saiga-12 so much that I bought 2 more! Glad I did now that EAA is no longer importing Saigas and supplies are drying up...
Tomac
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/FinishedSaigaS.jpg

[Volk]

Your next stop is

http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-deact_magazines.htm

[avatar]

That camo doesn't look to bad. As a matter of fact it might grow on you. Good purchase.

[Peacemaker]

I kinda like the Camo.

Congrats on a cool shotgun. Let us know how kick ass it is at the range.

One question though? What is the chamber size on those? 2 3/4 or 3 inch?

[daemon734]

both

[Peacemaker]

Well cool. I think I need to get one of these.

[JAS086]

I agree the camo looks good! I have a Mossberg 500 that's factory camo.

[hartzpad]

the chamber is 3" but the mags can take both 2.75" and 3" shells.

Welcome to the Saiga 12 club, now start converting that sucker!

I concure on getting the 8 round mags from Rusmilitary.

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/24295Saiga_004-med.jpg

[Buster Charlie]

No way in hell im paying that much for 3 more shots :)

I'm gonna wait a good long time for TAPCO or someone to get some 8 rounders for a non retarted price before I start droping that much per magazine.

[hartzpad]

No way in hell im paying that much for 3 more shots

Then you will never get any mags. It is worth the extra 3 rounds, believe me. Heck, the mags are worth the money just for the look if nothing else.

[Elduce]

The cammo doesn't look that bad. I would keep it that way.

[Buster Charlie]

Then you will never get any mags. It is worth the extra 3 rounds, believe me. Heck, the mags are worth the money just for the look if nothing else.

So Be it. But you may be able to convince yourself paying $75-100 or more for a 8 shot plastic mag is worth it. But I have less money than need to 'look cool'

How about this, you send me the cash ,i'll buy the mag, and then I will 'look cool'

The cammo doesn't look that bad. I would keep it that way.


I'm gonna have to refinish it anyway when I convert it to PG, im going for black poly grip and stock so I want it to match.

[JaketheSnakeOO7]

the chamber is 3" but the mags can take both 2.75" and 3" shells.

Welcome to the Saiga 12 club, now start converting that sucker!

I concure on getting the 8 round mags from Rusmilitary.

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/24295Saiga_004-med.jpg
Those long mags only hold 8 rounds of 12 gauge?? OH and congrats on the saiga man beatiful !!!!! :up: I think the camo will grow on you but it may look different from in person then from the pic. I really had to look twice to see the camo pattern on the gun from the pictures, me likey.

[BuckShott]

I like the camo look it looks Ghetto-cool. Like something a russian would be using in chechnya. Looks alot cooler than the fake wood grain stocks they have on some of them.

Buck

[drobs]

I hate to say it but that camo looks pretty good.

[gun papa]

Pretty nice! Camo looks cool. Does yours have the bolt hold open device like mine?

The Saiga 12 is insane. Wouldn't sell mine. papa

[AKATTACK]

Buster Charlie, here's a link that might be helpful to you. It concerns the removal of the woodtech finish but I can't see why you couldn't try it for removing the camo paint job. Click here: Finish Removal. (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2390) I've already converted my Saiga 12, and have a .410 on the way for me.....er, I mean for my girlfriend. Hope this helps, AKATTACK.

[Peacemaker]

Look at the axis pin on Jakethesnake007, and Charlie Busters guns look different in the reciever.

See the two axis pins over the trigger in Charlies gun?

In Jakethesnakes they are over the pistol grip.

Now did Jake modify his trigger group and move it up to accomadate the pistol grip?

Look at Charlies gun seems odd for an AK style reciever too have two (what seems like roll pins) where the trigger group is. Also it looks like the Saiga has the evil third pin in between the trigger and hammer.

Can anyone explain how the trigger and hammer system work on these shotguns?

Sorry I was not refering to Jakethesnake007's gun but hartzpad, and Tomacs guns.

[Tomac]

What looks to be the axis pins over the pistol grip on my gun are actually the fill-ins for where the axis pins used to be before the conversion. They're difficult to see in that shot but you can barely make out the axis pins just above the trigger and the front of the trigger guard.
Tomac
Here's a closeup shot:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/SaigawithRecoilPadSWIFT003s.jpg

[AKATTACK]

Here's a pic of my Saiga 12. AKATTACK

[Buster Charlie]

Here's a pic of my Saiga 12. AKATTACK

That looks fucking fantastic! No mags strapped together, no crap attached to the handguards, no goofy 'SAW" grip.

I like it, its simple, it looks pretty true to 'mil spec' (I realize it dosnt have a folder (or dose it?) and a longer barrel)

Your a inspiration! Did you get the stock from k-var?

[AKATTACK]

Buster Charlie, I'm still trying to learn how to post photos the right way. Go here for more pics of my Saiga 12: Saiga 12. (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2966) I'm a traditionalist also, so that's why I used a standard grip and buttstock. Yes, I got the buttstock from K-Var, along with the trigger guard. I used some pictures of the original Saiga 12s to cut the trigger guard to match and I still need to paint the areas that were covered by the original trigger-plate. I've got a .410 Saiga on the way for my girlfriend and I've got a really cool idea for a stock for that one, I'll post pics of it when it's done. If you have any questions on the conversion process, let me know, I'll help any way I can. AKATTACK

[Buster Charlie]

Right now I can't afford the parts needed to convert, and I dont have the time to convert. But your gun looks Perfect to me. I'm not trying to dis anyone who adds all kinds of doodads and stuff to their gun. But I like the way your saiga-12 looks, it's simple and elegant.

I'll keep you in mind when I do mine. I use http://www.imageshack.us/ to host my pics.

[BuckShott]

i agree with buster
AKattacks Saiga 12 looks great. I plan on doing something similiar but I might add some provision for a bayonet.

Nice work AKAttack

Buck

[Buster Charlie]

What i'd like to see is someone actualy sell a clamp on bayo lug (for the m7 since it fits) and something like that ak front sight post/flash hdier that saiga-12.com has listed but not for sale.

Instant 'evil' :)

[Vampire]

AKATTACK, fantastic! :up:

Just got off the phone ordering mine :jump:

Want to list what parts you used and where you got 'em?

[AKATTACK]

Thanks for the compliments guys! I still need to paint the gun, but I'm reallly pleased with the turn-out. I started with a basic Saiga 12, 19"bl. Followed the conversion process on this site: Saiga conversion. (http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm) There are a few things that are different on the shotgun, but it's mostly the same. I "made" a more correct trigger guard and safety/selector stop from an AKM trigger guard and safety/selector stop that I purchased from K-VAR, just used my dremel and cut them to match the ones used on the original Saiga 12s. I purchased a standard black buttstock for a stamped receiver from K-VAR also, and I had the fire control group from a WASR that I used, trigger and hammer needed modifying also. You can use a Tapco G2 group if desired. I used button head cap screws to put it all together and used nuts and star-lock washers on the inside of the receiver to keep it all together, some guys just thread the receiver, but I wanted it to be sturdy. I used a U.S. made pistol grip from a WASR also, it closely resembles one of the two styles used on the original Saigas. I used one of the buttplate screws from the original buttstock to fill the hole left from the trigger guard on the rear underside of the receiver, after I used a carbide tool to chamfer the hole a little bit. Here's two more pics. Hope this helps.....AKATTACK.

Also, there's a guy that can make a bayonet lug for the Saiga 12 to attach an M7 bayonet, after you open the "ring" on the bayonet up a little, his name is Tony Rumore, here's a link:Tromix. (http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm) The third pic is a pic of his setup.

And for AK-style front sights, check out this site, it's located in the U.K., but you are able to order parts from this site, but they aren't cheap. Also notice that they are listed in foreign currency. Saiga 12 Parts (http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-deact_accessories.htm)

Krebs also makes an AK-type front sight: Krebs Customs (http://www.krebscustom.com/CustomParts.html). It's near the bottom of the page.

[Vampire]

So, compiling a "shopping list" to modify mine

So far, I think i have all of the 5 required parts.
1-Fire controll group (Counts as 3?), 2-Pistol Grip(1) , 3-Butt-Stock(1) for a total of 5.. right?

1 ) FIRE CONTROL GROUP
DOUBLE HOOK, G2, MADE IN THE U.S.A
Our Price: $39.99
http://www.tapco.com/product_information.asp?number=AK0650&back=yes&dept=190&last=13
http://www.tapco.com/item_pics/md/AK0650_md.jpg


2 ) Stock
AK-008BUSW ~ US MADE AK-74 Warsaw Length Buttstock and Pistol Grip ~ For Stamped Receiver.
Our Price: $49.99
http://www.k-var.com/product.asp?0=270&1=271&3=608
http://www.k-var.com/images/AK-008BUSW.jpg

OR

AK-008BUS ~ US MADE AK-74 Buttstock Set ~ For Stamped Receiver.
Our Price: $49.99
http://www.k-var.com/product.asp?0=270&1=271&3=82
http://www.k-var.com/images/AK-008BUS.jpg

** Top one looks shorter (and better) will it be LONG enough for minimum length? **

[wjm]

Vampire

I think most folks use a single hook trigger.

[Tomac]

For the Saiga-12 you only need to use 3 US parts, 4 if you add a pistol grip, 5 if your Saiga is threaded for the Russian chokes. Easiest route is the fcg (3) and the pistol grip. If no Russian choke then you're free to use any AK buttstock you want, foreign or US.
Tomac

[Buster Charlie]

For the Saiga-12 you only need to use 3 US parts, 4 if you add a pistol grip, 5 if your Saiga is threaded for the Russian chokes. Easiest route is the fcg (3) and the pistol grip. If no Russian choke then you're free to use any AK buttstock you want, foreign or US.
Tomac

Why do you only need 4 US parts instead of the 5 for a regular AK?

Also I dont think i've ever seen an ATF letter stating choke tubes are a muzzle device

[Tomac]

Why do you only need 4 US parts instead of the 5 for a regular AK?

Also I dont think i've ever seen an ATF letter stating choke tubes are a muzzle device

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2042

Tomac

[AKATTACK]

Guys, I thought that this question of parts count might arise. Here's a link to Soupbowl Enterprises' website, which contains a letter that was a response from the B.A.T.F.E. Wes had asked for an official parts count on certain imported rifles so that he could consider conversion of these "sporting" arms into pistol-gripped configurations. If you will observe said letter and take note of the firearm labeled as "H" on the righthand side, which is the Saiga shotgun, then look at the numbers listed after it. Use the list on the lefthand side to see what parts the firearm are made up of. For some reason, the trunions are not counted on the Saiga shotgun. I have no idea why not, but I'm not gonna argue. The Saiga is shown to consist of 13 parts with the stock that comes on it when it's imported. Remember, to convert the gun into pistolgrip configuration, you must use no more than 10 imported parts, so you need to change 3, and as long as you use a U.S. made grip, you can use a foreign buttstock or a U.S. made buttstock. I'm not sure if A.T.F. considers the attachable choke a muzzle device or not, but it wouldn't hurt to consider it one just to be on the safe side. That said, you'd just have to change the trigger, hammer, disconnector and use U.S. made ones and then make sure you use a U.S. made grip and buttstock and you would be covered.

In the table below the letter, he shows a parts count AFTER the firearm has been converted, so that's why it shows the Saiga with 14 parts. It has a pistolgrip added at that point.

It wouldn't hurt to save the letter and make a copy of it.

Here's a link to the letter: B.A.T.F.E. Letter of Parts Count. (http://www.soupbowl.kalashnikov.guns.ru/page12.html)

Hope this clears the confusion and hope it helps-AKATTACK.

Also need to mention that the Saiga does not already have the hole in the receiver for the pistol grip nut. You will have to measure and cut the hole. I used a template and marked it, then used my dremel to cut it out, it was tricky, but I just went slow , cut the hole small and then finished it using a file. You'll also need to order a pistol grip nut and screw. AKATTACK

[Vampire]

Vampire

I think most folks use a single hook trigger.
So switching the dbl hook to single, the other parts will fit properly?

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2042

Tomac
Tomac, AKATTACK,
Once again guys, good info, thanks!

[AKATTACK]

The doulbe hook trigger will work, if you cut a relief in the receiver for the other hook, such as the Chinese and Bulgarian AKs are cut. I'd just go with a single hook trigger, then depending upon what gauge shotgun you have and which particular model, the hammer will have to be modified in one way or another. I didn't deal with this issue, I just used my original hammer, because I was using a U.S. buttstock, pistolgrip, disconnector and trigger. That gave me the 4 U.S. parts that I needed, since after the conversion the gun consisted of 14 parts (per the letter and table posted on the Soupbowl Enterprises website that I listed in the previous post). Remember, the gun can have only 10 imported parts, so my gun conforms with 922r. If you need to replace the foreign hammer, just use the original hammer as a guide to modify the U.S. hammer. If the Saiga has a bolt catch, you'll have to narrow the overall width of the hammer where the pin goes thru it, and on some models of the Saiga, you'll have to grind a little off the front of the hammer. Also, some people that have used the Tapco G2 trigger sets have noted that they may have to do some VERY slight trimming on the receiver or the trigger, it seems the trigger was just a tad big for the opening.

Just picked up my Saiga .410, cleaning her up now, gonna take it out and run a few rounds thru her tomorrow. Then start ordering parts.

Vampire, you're very welcome. AKATTACK

[Vampire]

Ok... Got my Saiga-12 in :jump:

Was looking over your pictures again AKATTACK and came up w/ 2 more questions.

1) Your trigger guard. Is that a custom job? (if not, where'd ya get it?) The link to the Saiga conversion you posted has us throwing away the plate the trigger guard is attached to. That removes the Safty selector stop. Your trigger guard has one :up:

2) Looking at the LARGE picts of the trigger area, I noticed a 'button' next to the pistol grip. Is that a bolt hold open? If so where'd ya get it!??

Thanks in advance :)

[AKATTACK]

Vampire, the trigger guard was a custom job, I bought a Bulgarian AK-47 guard and selector stop from K-VAR, order part numbers AK-017 and AK-111. Here's a link to a picture that I used to copy mine to match the original:Saiga 12 pics. (http://www.saiga-12.com/Photo_Gallery.htm) I'll include another pic with this post that shows it better. I just used my Dremel, went slow and then used a file to smooth it out. It was really easy to do. You might touch base with Tantal, he had original trigger guards listed on his parts list, but his description also noted that the guards included the mag release. On the original Saiga 12, the mag release and trigger guard is separate. On the 20s and 410s the guards and mag releases are one-piece, like a traditional AK. You just might want to touch base with him and see what's up with that. He had a $20.00 price tag on them.
The large button that protruded below was a bolt-stop. This was installed on the factory 19" models, but is not included on the 22" models. When firing the gun, you can count the rounds and then on the last round, you just press up when pulling the trigger and it will lock the bolt open after the rouund is fired, thus making the extraction of the empty mag and the insertion of the full magazine much easier. When the "store" was open at the Saiga 12 website, you could purchase one. I have seen them for sale, but I'll have to find where I have seeen them and post it here later. The hold open installs with the hammer pin, the hammer is just "narrowed" on the right side to make room for the lever to fit. AKATTACK

Edited to add:Vampire, if you will p.m. me an e-mail addy, I'll send you the bigger picture of the triggerguard, it's just too small to see much of it on this posting. The original is really big and clear. AKATTACK