ATTN Mechanics/Gearheads...advice needed

[mr_billcollector]

Alright guys here's the deal:

98 Nissan Frontier 4X4 ~85,000

When I push the clutch all the way down I hear a noise, kinda of like a whirring or grinding noise. It does not make the noise if the clutch is out, and there's is no change in shifting, nor is there any slipage. It seems to go away after awhile (perhaps when the tranny lube heats up??) Now, based upon my (limited) knowledge of how a manual transmission works, I'm thinking that I've got a bad throwout bearing.

Questions:

1.) Is my diagnosis correct?

2.) Assuming the answer above is affirmative, how much am I looking at to fix this? I know a throwout bearing is pretty cheap, but the transmission probably has to be removed, so I'm thinking this is fairly expensive, I need a good range so that I don't get ripped off by a mechanic.

3.) At 85,000, and having the tranny pulled anyways, would it be wise to go ahead and replace the entire clutch?

4.) About a month ago, I had my truck maintainenced by Jiffy Lube, including the manual transmission. Is it possible they fucked something up?

5.) How long can I drive like this without doing serious damage? What damage is being done (to the clutch, I assume) by this condition?

Thanks in advance for any help. When it comes to mechanical stuff I'm all theory and no hands-on. I can explain in general how a manual transmission works but I can't find where the damn gear oil goes :lol:

[Johnson]

1.) Is my diagnosis correct?

Most likely.

2.) Assuming the answer above is affirmative, how much am I looking at to fix this? I know a throwout bearing is pretty cheap, but the transmission probably has to be removed, so I'm thinking this is fairly expensive, I need a good range so that I don't get ripped off by a mechanic.

500 to 1000 dollars (clutch may be damaged as well as other parts) Maybe more depending on ACTUAL damage.

3.) At 85,000, and having the tranny pulled anyways, would it be wise to go ahead and replace the entire clutch?

Yes. If it's a hydralic cluch you may want to replace the master ans slave as well.

4.) About a month ago, I had my truck maintainenced by Jiffy Lube, including the manual transmission. Is it possible they fucked something up?


They can't access the clutch components without pulling the trans.
5.) How long can I drive like this without doing serious damage? What damage is being done (to the clutch, I assume) by this condition?


Stop now or more damage will occur.

Thanks in advance for any help. When it comes to mechanical stuff I'm all theory and no hands-on. I can explain in general how a manual transmission works but I can't find where the damn gear oil goes

There's usually a plug on the side of the trans where the oil goes.
You're welcome.

[Bullet]

Yeap TO bearing. To replace the clutch while the transmission is down is a good idea, but not required if in good condition. Personally, if it was mine I'd change the clutch too. Since its 4x4 its going to probably cost over 1k to have it all replaced.

[RiverRat]

Yep its the most likely culprit and the clutch is cheap compared to the labor to pull the tranny so if you have it fixed you might as well replace the clutch otherwise you'll spend more in the long run when you have to pull it again in 30k to do the clutch. I'm not sure what it damages that you don't replace anyway, I drove my suzuki for at least 20k with the thowout bearing goin out but it might not be a sound decision, my zuk was cheap so I didn't care.

[mr_billcollector]

Since its 4x4 its going to probably cost over 1k to have it all replaced.

Well that sucks, don't know if I want to sink a grand into it or not. I suppose I have no choice...

[MsCav]

I agree w RiverRat I have driven a couple of Chevy trucks with noisey thowout bearings for many miles. Worst case senario is the bearing pushing through the fingers of the pressure plate and you couldn't shift. Might add a tow bill to the deal.

[Johnson]

I agree w RiverRat I have driven a couple of Chevy trucks with noisey thowout bearings for many miles. Worst case senario is the bearing pushing through the fingers of the pressure plate and you couldn't shift. Might add a tow bill to the deal.

Another thing to consider is that depending on how the bearing fails, it can tear up the front of the transmission.

[mr_billcollector]

Another thing to consider is that depending on how the bearing fails, it can tear up the front of the transmission.

Thats what I am worried about. The worst part is finding a mechanic that won't rip me off.

[blobman]

what they said

[Flinter]

Definately sounds like a throw out bearing.

If someone charged me over 350-400 to replace it, I'd have a fit.

[Johnson]

Definately sounds like a throw out bearing.

If someone charged me over 350-400 to replace it, I'd have a fit.

No offense, but in my shop, if you had a fit, you would be asked to leave.

Not to even mention all the things you may know nothing about.

[Flinter]

No offense, but in my shop, if you had a fit, you would be asked to leave.

Not to even mention all the things you may know nothing about.


No offense taken.......but when I had my '94 done a few years ago (bearing, plate, slave cylinder) it was just a hair over $300. Last one I did myself, my friend and I had it back on the road in about 6 hours. That was working on it in my backyard. I'm just quoting labor.......not parts.

If something else in there is screwy that's one thing, but if it's just the bearing 350-400 is fair.

[mr_billcollector]

Definately sounds like a throw out bearing.

If someone charged me over 350-400 to replace it, I'd have a fit.

350-400 to drop the transmission on a 4X4 Japanese made compact pickup? What does a mechanic go for out there per hour?

[Flinter]

The guy I use charges $40 an hour. Rounded to the nearest quarter hour.

Mine were full size Chev's too. Not compacts.

[mack8384]

Flat rate labor guide list 6.8 hrs for that job. Normal independant shop rate is $50-$70 pr hr. median labor price is ~$400. Add a couple of hundred to that for dealership prices.
After market clutch, TO brng, master cyl. and slave cly. price is ~another $400 at shop pricing. You'll save about $150 off the parts if you purchase them yourself at local part house, but you probably aren't going to find a shop willing to put in your parts.
Add in miscl. cleaners, grease,oil etc and it's going to run you close to a grand. And contrary to popular belief the poor mechanic doing the job does not get to keep much of that.

Mack M.

[mr_billcollector]

The guy I use charges $40 an hour. Rounded to the nearest quarter hour.

Mine were full size Chev's too. Not compacts.

Not too bad, here it's around $50-$60/hour.

Any tips on how to find a mechanic that won't totally rip me off? Is there any kind of certifications or ratings that are generally reliable (like AAA or something)?

One of the bad things about having a generally reliable vehicle is that you don't develop a close relationship with a mechanic. I'm afraid they'll quote like $600 or something and then when my tranny is in pieces on the shop floor it goes up to $1,600. Had this happen to me once before....

Flat rate labor guide list 6.8 hrs for that job. Normal independant shop rate is $50-$70 pr hr. median labor price is ~$400. Add a couple of hundred to that for dealership prices.
After market clutch, TO brng, master cyl. and slave cly. price is ~another $400 at shop pricing. You'll save about $150 off the parts if you purchase them yourself at local part house, but you probably aren't going to find a shop willing to put in your parts.
Add in miscl. cleaners, grease,oil etc and it's going to run you close to a grand. And contrary to popular belief the poor mechanic doing the job does not get to keep much of that.

Mack M.

Good info, thanks!

[Skibane]

Since it's been a reliable vehicle so far (and 85K is NOTHING for a Nissan pickup), I'd spend whatever it takes to get it done absolutely right. What you pay will be chump change compared to what you've saved already over the years, and could very easily be the only major repair you'll need for the next several years.

Also, consider that every time you buy or sell a vehicle, you lose money on the deal. As long as you continue to drive it, depreciation, finance charges, sales taxes, license fees, collision insurance and all kinds of other extra costs don't mean anything. It is almost always cheaper in the long run to repair an otherwise reliable vehicle, even if it costs more than the vehicle's value on the market.

BTW, next time you change the transmission oil, strongly consider using Red Line MTL synthetic. When it comes to smooth shifts (even in cold weather), this stuff is in a league of its own!

[mr_billcollector]

BTW, next time you change the transmission oil, strongly consider using Red Line MTL synthetic. When it comes to smooth shifts (even in cold weather), this stuff is in a league of its own!

Some of my gearhead buddies have made that same recomendation...

[CETME]

if nobody mentioned it (i didnt read all the posts) I think its the pilot bearing....

[mr_billcollector]

if nobody mentioned it (i didnt read all the posts) I think its the pilot bearing....

I thought about that, but the fact that I only here the noise when the clutch is fully disengaged (pedal all the way to floor) is what lead me to think that it's the TO bearing rather than the pilot bushing....

[Krupski]

Thats what I am worried about. The worst part is finding a mechanic that won't rip me off.

Do it yourself. Saves money, and guaranteed you won't rip yourself off.

Grab some tools, look how it all goes together (make sketches if necessary), take it apart (may involve disconnecting the driveshaft from the transfer case if 4WD), then replace the clutch disk and throwout bearing.

If the clutch is hydraulic actuated and you're NOT having problems with it (sinking pedal, fluid loss, etc..) then LEAVE THAT PART ALONE.

Once you're done you will:

* Be amazed how easy it was.
* Gain the confidence to do other car repairs yourself.
* Have pride in having "done it yourself".
* Saved lots of money on a "mechanic".

(by the way, keep oily, dirty hands OFF the new clutch disk... when it comes time to install the new part, WASH your hands first).

Roger

[cowdawg]

I am guessing the noise is when the clutch is fully depressed? If so I don't really think it is the throwout bearing, those usually make noise when the clutch is not depressed, I am thinking its might be the pilot bearing making that noise. Either way If I had the tranny out I would replace the clutch throwout bearing as well as the pilot bearing. Remeber to keep the clutch plate clean when reinstalling it.

Good luck to you and yes it is do-able for a do-it-yourselfer.

[Krupski]

Good luck to you and yes it is do-able for a do-it-yourselfer.

Anything is do-able by a DIY. I've rebuilt a GM THM-350 automatic transmission and two Mopar A-904's. I also helped a friend of mine convert a GM Powerglide (2 speed auto) for drag racing use.

BTW, that same project (drag racing) also involved tearing down and "building" a Ford 302 racing engine.

Parts is parts... just take it apart, replace the damaged or worn part(s), put it back together. Easy.

One learns a lot when they get their hands dirty...

Roger

[Johnson]

Anything is do-able by a DIY. I've rebuilt a GM THM-350 automatic transmission and two Mopar A-904's

I've rebuilt some of those also.

[ksuguy]

The problem with doing it yourself is that you are left without a functioning car while you are busy learning how to do it. Of course, you don't have this problem if you have a spare car.

[HDR]

And rent the equipment needed..

As in a jack cuz a tranny and T-Case are heavy

[Johnson]

The problem with doing it yourself is that you are left without a functioning car while you are busy learning how to do it. Of course, you don't have this problem if you have a spare car.

One of the other problems that may arise is that if the car does not work properly, you may not know how to diagnose it.

[Krupski]

I've rebuilt some of those also.

Well, if you've been inside a THM-350, then you'll understand this story...

The one I rebuilt was from a 6 cylinder truck. Therefore, it only had two clutch plates and a spacer in the intermediate (second gear) clutch pack.

The rebuild kit came with three intermediate clutch plates, so I figured "why not?" and installed all 3. I also changed the valve body seperator plate to an "H" stamped plate (for heavy duty - it had larger holes at certain points for quicker, but less smooth shifts).

So far, so good... but dummy me ALSO put in the spacer for the third plate!

Thinking about it now, I can see why the damn clutch pack was so hard to compress to install the retainer ring.

Anyway, got it all back together... and the truck wouldn't move!

The intermediate clutch pack was locked up, and this combined with being in first gear locked up the whole geartrain!

So, back out it came and I took it apart again.

After thinking about it, I knew what I did wrong. I took apart the intermediate clutch, removed the spacer and put it back together (and it went together much easier!).

I finally got the trans back in and tried it... it worked just fine, and what NICE crisp shifts it made with the "H" plate installed!

So, I thought I could make a good thing even better... I removed the intermediate accumulator spring so that the 1-2 shift would be instantaneous.

THAT was a mistake. The trans shifted so hard it would chirp the tires and twang the driveshaft. I wondered how many miles the U-joints would last with that kind of abuse.

So, back in went the accumulator spring and all was finally well.

The Mopar A-904 TorqueFlite transmissions I worked on I just fixed... I didn't "mess" with them. Both of them had worn out direct clutch seals and would barely go into third gear (and would slip out and drop back into second under load).

The GM trannys are much better built than Mopars...

Roger

[Johnson]

Yeah, that kind of stuff can happen. It's bad when you have to pull it back out. Glad you got it fixed.

[mr_billcollector]

Do it yourself. Saves money, and guaranteed you won't rip yourself off.



Just to follow up on this (in case anyone cares) I did follow your advice krupski, and did this myself . It was a nightmare at the time, took a whole weekend. But the end result was worth it I think....saved a bunch of money, my knuckles ALMOST look the same, and I learned a few things...

Would I do it all over again? Hmmmmm...