Curio Best Buy Pistol?

[SS109]

I think the Tokarev is a good buy, but the 1927 Argentine Colt also looks like a good buy. Any other good choices?

[Misguided]

CZ52

[Misguided]

cz52, better than a tokarev, same caliber

[REDSTAR]

I'm ordering a CZ52 on Monday for my birthday next month.
I just handled one in the local shop, the thing is built like a tank.

[zouavexx]

Originally posted by REDSTAR
I'm ordering a CZ52 on Monday for my birthday next month.
I just handled one in the local shop, the thing is built like a tank.

Happy Birthday (early) REDSTAR. I think you will be happy with your choice, they are a good solid gun. I want a tokerev!


BTW here in New York you may NOT purchace a C&R pistol or revolver with your FEDERAL LICENSE. Even if you have a Full Carry pistol permit. :mad:

[pro2nd]

Dont forgit the nagant pistols for 49.95 and the cz50 for 79.95 I bought both from SOG the cz50 is .32 acp and the nagant is .32 long

[REDSTAR]

Yeah, I got two Nagants when they were available. No one has them anymore :(

That's the thing with C&R weapons. Once they're gone they very well could be gone forever! Its not like they're making Nagants anymore.

Anyway, that's the story I tell my wife and I'm sticking to it!

[pro2nd]

Danm I did not know that they were unavailible I was going to get another oh well you are right dont wait or you can be very sorry.

[BenjaminXX]

What, no one mentioned the Makarov yet?

[pro2nd]

which one of the macs are C&R Im always confused on this one?


:confused:

[TheBigCA2x]

which one of the macs are C&R Im always confused on this one?

I believe on the ATF site I saw Russian and East German 9mm Maks. Only entry I noticed on the scan I did.

[weevil]

Let's be honest. Do you really think the CZ-52, is a "great" pistol? The grip is horrible, the pins for the slide stop, and trigger, rattle loose, the finish on the metal is terrible, and you can't remove the grips without destroying them. Now would someone like to tell me why they like the CZ-52? I'd much rather spend the day shooting a Tokarev, or Makarov. They're based on proven designs, the CZ, strikes me as a pistol designed and built in a hurry.

[Misguided]

Originally posted by weevil
Let's be honest. Do you really think the CZ-52, is a "great" pistol? The grip is horrible, the pins for the slide stop, and trigger, rattle loose, the finish on the metal is terrible, and you can't remove the grips without destroying them. Now would someone like to tell me why they like the CZ-52? I'd much rather spend the day shooting a Tokarev, or Makarov. They're based on proven designs, the CZ, strikes me as a pistol designed and built in a hurry.

No I think my Sig 229 is a great pistol! I never said the CZ52 was a great or the best pistol. The CZ52 is just another C&R pistol that is worth the price and consideration. I have had no problems from mine, its cheap and fun to shoot. I have removed my handgrips without breaking them. If you want the best C&R pistols stick with the lugers. :cool:

[GCcowboy]

Originally posted by Misguided


If you want the best C&R pistols stick with the lugers. :cool:


This may be a silly question but where can a resasonably priced luger be obtained? They seem to be kind of elusive.

[weevil]

The P-38 is the best C&R pistol. The best deal is the Sistema Colts, for $300. The Polish Tokarev is far superior pistol, and only costs a little more. The CZ-52 is an interesting oddity, at best. I'll keep one for my collection, but its way down there, on my list of favorite guns to shoot.

[srv656sxx]

Don't get CZ52 from SOG. The outsides look fantastic, but the barrels look like ASSSSSS!

(Pitted and rotten)

Shawn

[8dDUCE]

Ok? So if you have a C&R you canget C&R pistols the same way as the rifles? No background, and right to you door? Thanks 8dDUCE.

[1 Patriot-of-many]

YES 8dDuce....Nothing like that feeling!!!!!
Got a 1927(1911a1) myself that route......

[8dDUCE]

I LOVE IT!!!!!! You guys have showed me the light, Enfields, Nagants, Swedes and all favorite rifles, now hand guns!!! This too good to pass up. I am in!!!! 8dDUCE.:D :D :D

[NC_Rebel]

Originally posted by 1 Patriot-of-many
Got a 1927(1911a1) myself that route...... Argentine Sistema? 1-Pat, tell us all about it. Man, I plan on getting one of them - hope there are still some left.

REDSTAR, I saw a very nice Nagant revolver at a gun show couple months ago. It was right at closing time and the dealer had marked down the price to $100. Didn't have a pistol purchase permit with me so I had to pass it up. :(

[REDSTAR]

NC Rebel- it's probably good you didn't get it because they were $49 when available. A local dealer has one at $110 too. Not worth $100 IMO. Very nice for $50 though!

Well, I went ahead and ordered a CZ52 and 800 rounds of ammo for it this morning. I will hope for the best. Got it from Century, on sale this moth $125 with extra mag and holster. Hope the barrel is good. I'll post when it arrives.

[1 Patriot-of-many]

NC_Rebel I got it from CDNN for $349?in VG,I think they still have them in the latest catalog.I'm not sure if it's a sistema or not cause it has Colts address on the slide?..The barrel isn't exactly VG on mine though.It's pitted and probably seen better days...Though new barrels are like $39 at Century..I need that and a barrel bushing to make things better for me..It's pretty inaccurate right now(then again maybe it's ME!).I like the 1911 type handguns the best out of all handguns myself....It was an Argentine Federale's gun.
I also bought a Super Star B in (VG-Excellent) condition from SOG($220 with shipping and handpick),but they don't classify it as a C+R though it probably is....The regular Star is;and if it shoots as good as the Super I might pick one of them up too..Course their 9mm instead of .45...Get the handpick when ordering from SOG though,I've been around the block with them before.....But you probably know this stuff anyway,you've had your C+R for a while?
Top one is the 1927 bottom is the Super Star

http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000011140/1000011140_1029200163837PM0.8403851.jpg

http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000011140/1000011140_1029200163831PM0.6655847.jpg

PIC hosting site is being screwy,won't allow the full size photo so these will have to suffice for now....

[pistol_fish]

I got a CZ-52 in Excelent condition last month for $145. The barrel is like new and there is very little external wear on the origional parkerized grey finish. I replaced the bakelite grips (which are actually very tough) with some wallnut grip panels. The internal machining is very high quality and I noticed no unpolished surfaces. Slide to frame fit is good and there is very little play. The roller locking mechanism seems to provide a very strong lock up and is known to be one of the more complicated but strong designs. I was especially appriciative of this feature during my range session with Czech ammo.
Ergonomics; The mag release is somewhat awkward if you are not used to a bottom release mechanism, although an empty mag will fall free if you keep your fingers out of the way. There is no external slide stop but you can push up the slide stop bar with your thumb rather easily. Trigger pull is stiff but broke crisply at 8.5lbs with very little overtravel and no creep. I have medium-large hands and the hand fit is very good and would be easily customizable using aftermarket grip panels or a Hogue slip-on grip. The grip angle seems to be very much like that of a 1911. At the range; I used Bulgarian, Chinese 7.62x25 and Czech-made ammo. First I shot the Chinese ammo which although had a mild recoil gave the worst accuracy for rapid fire shooting. The Bulgarian was a brass case, quality ammo. It consistantly shot 5" groups off the bench at 25Yds. With a different shooter I'm sure it could do better. The Czech ammo was a real riot! This stuff is hot. VERY HOT! I was warned by my gun shop not to use this ammo in a straight blowback pistol like a Tokerov because of it's high chamber pressure. This ball ammo is shorter than Chinese or Bulg ammo because of a shorter bullet. I couldn't tell the exact grain of the bullet but I'm guessing it's right around 65gr - 75gr as standard ball ammo is 90 or 95gr. I was told the muzzle velocity of this load is over 1,900 ft/s. Anyway I stopped shooting paper and was splitting 3"x4" wood blocks at 30feet. This is one fun pistol! I quickly blew through 200 rounds of the Czech ammo ($16.00) and all the wood blocks I had.
Overall; My overall impression is that the CZ-52 is one FUN gun! The very high muzzel velocity packs a lot of power without excessive felt recoil. I do recomend getting a rubber slip on grip or textured wood grips if you plan on shooting much of the Czech or Bulgarian ammo because it is difficult to manage with the slick bakelite grips. The accuracy and overall construction of this pistol is certainly not "custom shop" quality but seems to be at least as accurate and well built as many of the mid priced new handguns available today and exceeds the reliability and quality of new low priced pieces like Hi-Point, Lorcin, Jennings, and Phoenix. There are a ton of aftermarket upgrades for the CZ-52 such as, hardwood grip panels, slip on grips, machined firing pins, snap-caps, new barrels, muzzle breaks, and origional new Czech magazines. Not to mention 9mm Largo conversion kits. (don't know why you'd want one but...) I don't know why anyone wouldn't want a CZ-52 in their collection. This gun is a flat bargain in my book.

[REDSTAR]

Good post pistol fish, welcome to the board. I can't wait to give her a whirl!

NC Rebel, sorry I called you Zouave in my post above, or sould I be appologizing to Zouave :) I edited it. I was wondering where you were last night, I'm glad your back.

[weevil]

I notice a lot of these guns are hit or miss. The Sistema Colt I got from CDNN is very nice. It has some minor pitting behind the right grip, and the serial number on the frame is slightly blurred. Other than that everything looks brand new, inside and out. The barrel is mirror bright, and still has tool marks. The slide is unmarked, oddly enough this is the second unmarked Argentine .45, I've gotten. The Ballester Rigaud I got is also unmarked. Does anyone know if this raises or lowers their value?

[NC_Rebel]

Originally posted by REDSTAR
NC Rebel, sorry I called you Zouave in my post above, or sould I be appologizing to Zouave :) I edited it. I was wondering where you were last night, I'm glad your back. Can't get rid of me too easily. ;) You should be apologizing to Zouave. I'm actually much uglier than even he is. LOL

[NC_Rebel]

1-Pat, thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. Seems nearly everyone that buys the M1927 says the same thing about the barrel. I had planned on replacing it and a few other parts anyway. The price is pretty good for a "project" gun. :D

Weevil, consider yourself fortunate. I've been hanging out at 1911forums for a while now and seems like most of the guys there had to replace the barrel. Yours was factory refinished maybe? I've heard about Ballesters without markings. I think I found an explanation somewhere... let me check, and I'll post it if I can find it.

[weevil]

Yes its been rearsenalled, but the barrel looks new, all matching numbers, including the barrel. Whoever done the rework, done a good job. Several people that have looked at it thought it was a brand new gun. Other than than the blurred serial # on the frame, its in near perfect condition. Shoots great and good accuracy, for a 1911. Its always a gamble when order a C&R gun, sometimes you crap out, and sometimes you hit the jackpot.

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Originally posted by weevil
I notice a lot of these guns are hit or miss. The Sistema Colt I got from CDNN is very nice. It has some minor pitting behind the right grip, and the serial number on the frame is slightly blurred. Other than that everything looks brand new, inside and out. The barrel is mirror bright, and still has tool marks. The slide is unmarked, oddly enough this is the second unmarked Argentine .45, I've gotten. The Ballester Rigaud I got is also unmarked. Does anyone know if this raises or lowers their value?

Sounds like you have commercial models? Mine has Policia Federale with stamps on one side,COLT and their address on the other.......Sounds like you got a real nice one though,considering the barrel is pristine!!! Though I would think the Commercial product is probably worth a little less than say a Government agents......But I'm just guessing here.Somebody gave me a link a while ago for valuations on these types of pistols,if I can dig it up,I'll post it.

[weevil]

The marking on mine is different. The left has D.G.F.M.-[F.M.A.P.], and the right side is marked, SIST. COLT 11.25mm MOD. 1927. Is it possible you have a Hartford Colt? They were made by Colt, in America, and sold to Argentina. The Sistemas were made in Argentina by F.M.A.P.

[weevil]

Here's a bad pic of my Argie .45s. I gotta quit spending all my money on guns, and get a digital camera..

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Originally posted by weevil
The marking on mine is different. The left has D.G.F.M.-[F.M.A.P.], and the right side is marked, SIST. COLT 11.25mm MOD. 1927. Is it possible you have a Hartford Colt? They were made by Colt, in America, and sold to Argentina. The Sistemas were made in Argentina by F.M.A.P.

Yeah,must be...LEFT SIDE OF SLIDE,Mine has COLT'S PT. F.A. MFG. CO. HARTFORD,CT,U.S.A
{patent years under it}

Right side has stamping POLICIA FEDERAL COLT automatic calibre.45

So I guess mine ISN'T a sistema,I didn't think it was....

I need to get a digital camera too..... :D