Saiga Conversion "How to"

[steve465]

I'd like to nominate this site as the first "sticky" for the saiga shotgun thread: http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/

It's an excellent tutorial that gave me the inspiration to put a pistol grip and side folder on my Saiga 12. Anyone considering this conversion will be pleased to know that unlike many saiga rifles, the Saiga 12 shotgun already has the trigger cutout for a single hook trigger done, it's just waiting under a cover for you to use. Anyone who has built an AK from a kit should find this conversion a small challenge.

On an important related issue I'd like to point out that the NFA requires shotgun barrels be 18", not 16" like rifles, and the overall length must be 26" (that's with folding stocks extended in most jurisdictions, check yours!). The alternative would be to register the shotgun as a short-barrelled shotgun and pay appropriate tax.

Also conversion to a pistol grip will place the shotgun in the legal category of "Assault Weapon" in some backward jurisdictions such as California, so ckeck your local laws.

[mohctep]

Cool Site- Thanks!

[edman99]

Lots of great information!

Thanks

:cupjoe:

[uzitiger]

Steve465 refers to a great site for Saiga conversions. Which parts beside the fire control system need to be changed? You can get US made furniture including folding stocks. What about the gas piston for the Saiga shotguns? I have seen gas pistons made for the rifles but never for shotguns and I haven't seen the shotgun gas piston to compare it to the rifle.
The Saiga forum shows how to convert H&K .308 magazines to work in the S12 shotgun since getting magazines is a problem due to EAA discontinuing importation of the Saigas. EAA made a dumb mistake and I hope a new importer will profit from their mistake. Maybe they'll provide the accessories and both magazines that EAA was alleged to remove from the box, my rifle only came with one magazine.

:dozer:

[steve465]

I have never seen a "US Made" gas piston for a S12, so you would need a total of five other US parts to comply with 922R (and if you add an imported muzzle device that goes to 6). On mine I went US-made trigger, hammer, disconnector, pistol grip, and stock. I know Global Trades makes custom gas pistons, they may fit a S12.

Steve

[stormcaller111]

The Saiga forum shows how to convert H&K .308 magazines to work in the S12 shotgun since getting magazines is a problem due to EAA discontinuing importation of the Saigas.

do you have a link? I haven't heard about this. thanks

[Cobra76 two]

I have a US made gas piston in my S-12. It is stamped USA on it also. I bought it from a guy on the AK Files Forum. He goes by the name hotbarrel and turns them down on a lathe himself. Do a search and you will find him in the classified section. Mine was $15 shipped.
Also the total number of parts on the list comes to 13 on the Saiga shotguns (14 if you have a threaded barrel and factory chokes. You only have to replace three parts (4 if you have the threaded barrel) not 6 as was stated earlier.
Please someone correct me if I'm mistaken and you can prove it.

[steve465]

Just tinkering with my Saiga 12 tonight and noticed the Tapco G2 hammer won't function correctly without removing alot of metal from the front. I have a Red Star Arms hammer in there now and it works great.

I'd sure like to see an ATF "parts count" letter on Saiga 12. Seems to me you'd need at least 5 US parts, maybe six to stay within 922r.

Steve

[AKATTACK]

Here's a link to the letter that was a response to the request made by Wes at Soupbowl Enterprises. He had requested a "parts count" on several different rifles for possible receiver production. Notice that the Saiga shotguns are listed as item "H" on the right side, then use the corresponding numbers with the parts list on the left side to see which parts are considered to make up the firearm. I can't say if the parts count on the Saiga is legitimate or not, notice that the "trunions"(#4) are omitted. We all know that the Saiga shotguns have trunions, so I don't know why they were omitted. The letter shows that the shotguns have 13 parts, without a muzzle attachment. Here's the link: http://www.soupbowl.kalashnikov.guns.ru/page12.html. AKATTACK

[steve465]

Hmm...interesting letter. I was assuming a pistol grip when I said 5 or 6 parts, but no trunnion? I was worried about the "no doubt about it, it's a gas piston" that rides in front of what AK guys typically call the gas piston being counted separately too.

Well I'll definitely save that letter to the hard drive, and make sure I've got plenty of US parts on mine. Thanks for posting that AKATTACK.

Steve

[AKATTACK]

Steve, you're very welcome, I saved the letter and made a few copies also. It never hurts to have more than enough parts, on my gun I have the trigger, hammer, disconnector, buttstock and pistolgrip. AKATTACK

[sniper_n_training]

The Saiga forum shows how to convert H&K .308 magazines to work in the S12 shotgun since getting magazines is a problem due to EAA discontinuing importation of the Saigas.

Any links bro?
I work in a machine shop and this sounds like a way for me to get a few extra mags for my already converted S12.

[integratedj]

They don't work 100%, last I saw they weren't even finished with the protoype stage.

Tromix will come through on the mags, I'm not worried about that at all.
RAA will also hopefully hurry the hell up, so that will hopefully be here soon as well.

[steve465]

Just finished reworking my Saiga 12BMF tonight and I can't wait to go shootin'!
:handgun:
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6193/bmfsaiga3xv.jpg
Some of the things I did:

-Sawed and crowned the barrel to 18.25". This was the F1.0 full choke barrel and now it measures at Improved Cylinder, that was a pleasant surprise as I expected no choke. Now I can shoot slugs without fear of the barrel splitting.

-That a K-V@R US stock set. The inside of the lower hanguard had to be significantly milled to fit the big 12 gauge barrel. As I removed material from the inside the slats in the handguard side became real good looking vents, you can barely make this out in the pic but the barrel can breathe in there.

-Tapco G2 FCG except for the hammer which is Red Star Arms, the TAPCO hammer wouldn't fit in the Saiga without some serious metal removal.

-Eventually I will fill the old trigger/extender axis holes in the rear of the receiver.

-I was also pleasantly surprised to find the trigger cutout already done when I removed the trigger plate on the bottom of the receiver. This left me with cutting a pistol grip hole, fabricating a trigger guard from the old one, and drilling a hole for the trigger guard screws. I used screws on the trigger guard, rivets would have been very difficult to buck.

-The pad is a bulgy grenade launcher pad, it fits very snugly but I will probably end up screwing it into the buttstock. The small lip on the bottom of the pad makes all the difference in terms of cheekweld by getting the shotgun up higher on your shoulder.

-Thats a PK-AS and I'd recommend it only for guys who shoot with both eyes open. I really like it.

-Also fabricated a simple retainer for the front handguard. It screws into the lip of the handguard and under the sling swivel.

This will certainly push me into the "open" category at the 3-gun matches....

Steve

[Cobra76 two]

VERY NICE indeed Steve! You are definately gonna have too much fun with that baby! Please come over to Saiga-12.com and show that hottie off sometime. There's a simple fix for those old holes but you probably already know about that. :ywoot
If not here's what they look like on mine after $1.00 and about a 15 second install. Nylon hole plugs 3/16" avail. at Lowes or Ace hardware. The ones at Ace are more glossy and look more like metal rivet heads. They pop right in and lock solid.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid176/p84fd382f03b346a53bfed8f098336758/f3625785.jpg

[steve465]

Thanks Cobra, your wood furniture version was really an inspiration for me to redo mine. I'm interested to see the plugs, I had planned on using binder posts. Your picture doesn't see to work though.

Steve

[Cobra76 two]

Oh no! You mean I'm the only one who can see that picture? I thought I finally had this picture posting thing figured out.

:wtf:
Can anyone else see a picture there? What does it look like on your's? On my screen there is a nice big picture.
Steve if you email me with your email addy I can send you the info on the plugs along with a picture.

[GAStormtrooper]

damn steve thats a fine 12, where'd you get the fat mag?

[steve465]

Got that 8-rd and another at a gun show. They both had the same serial number last-4 penciled on them under the factory packaging so I assume some dealer "taxed" a LEO Saiga 12C for two mags before he resold it. I hate when dealers pull the goodies out before they resell guns as "new". Already sold the other on Gunbroker. I would remain vigilant at gun shows, two-weeks ago I found 4 5-rd mags in original wrap at a gun show. You know the kind of dealer who just has bins of stuff they set out on the table, these mags were buried and priced accordingly :)

[Cobra76 two]

oh well thanks anyway. all I really needed was a simple yes or no.

[steve465]

Sorry Cobra, got sidetracked talking about 8-rdrs...

I'm going to Lowe's today, thanks.

Steve

[Cobra76 two]

OK I'm going to try this again. Trying to post pics on gunsnet has proved to be one of the most frustrating things I've ever tried! I've asked for help from the administrators and have gotten nowhere. For some strange reason they supposedly don't get my emails or PMs. Am I on their blocked sender list or something? Last time I got so frustrated I badmouthed the moderator in a thread to try and get their attention. Well that worked sure enough,<MISTAKE> but still all I got was a warning not to talk that way in "their house". Sent another email apologizing and asking the same questions again with no response. What is the correct procedure for contacting the moderator or administrator? Apparently the links don't work unless they are ignoring me. Now if you guys (moderators) are reading this please don't take offense and jump on me like you did last time. This is not a flame I am just trying to find out how to post a stinkin pic. A little help would go a long way. AK ATTACK tried to help me and I'm doing what he suggested but I can't understand why I can see my posted picture but no one else can. What does that mean? What does it look like to you? Does it say "user posted image" or is there one of those jpeg icons or just nothing? What could I be doing wrong?
I went to my image storage site and right clicked on the pic, copied the address in properties, and posted it between image tags and bam the pic showed up...on my screen it does anyway.
OK here we go again...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid176/p84fd382f03b346a53bfed8f098336758/f3625785.jpg

[BattleRifleG3]

Interesting. I saw the red X, copied your link, pasted it in the browser window, and saw your pic just fine. Then I clicked back and voila, your pic came through in the post too.

No comprendo.

[Cobra76 two]

LOL! I'm so confuzzled. :thud:

[steve465]

The technique BattleRifleG3 suggested of pasting into the address bar does work, and then the pic is cached and it shows up when I view your post. Here, I put the same shortcut in, can anyone else see it on the first go around?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid176/p84fd382f03b346a53bfed8f098336758/f3625785.jpg

[Cobra76 two]

ANYBODY?
oh well
Thanks for trying to help guys. You too Shep. I guess we are the only ones who read this forum. I will try and get by the library to log on and see what it looks like elsewhere.

[Shep]

I had the same thing happen as BattleRifleG3 and can see the picture fine now. I was going to post it for you but when I put it up I could then see it in your other posts, so I figured you got it working and deleted. Here it is.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid176/p84fd382f03b346a53bfed8f098336758/f3625785.jpg

Not sure what is going on??

By the way one of these days you need to get a good close up of the Skull selecter stop. Really want to see it.

Shep

[Cobra76 two]

thanks you guys. maybe i can get something out of the administrators if I can get thru to them. Shep I would love to be able to share some of the pics I have including the closeup of the "skelector stop". I guess I'll figure it out eventually.
It's cool to have a Saiga forum on gunsnet! :ywoot

[Cobra76 two]

Hey Shep I still don't have this pic posting thing down but here's a link to a good one in the saiga-12 gallery. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=92 :devil:

[Shep]

Bitchin! :rockin:

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/31291thecobraskull.jpg

Hope you don't mind that I copied and enlarged a bit. Looks great Cobra!


Shep

[Cobra76 two]

Thanks Shep! I would have done that if I could. Cool huh? Just tap the little dead guy on the head with the selector and it's time to rock and roll!!
:gun:

[steve465]

That is awesome. :killemall

[masakari]

lol, thats cool as hell..did you do that with a carbide dremel bit or something?

[Cobra76 two]

lol, thats cool as hell..did you do that with a carbide dremel bit or something?
Thanks. Yep it was one of those ones for etching glass. Gotta love the ol' dremel. :ywoot