How do we stop the ATF BS??? Moved to "21st Century Patriots" Forum [Archive]

integratedj

07-21-2005, 09:37 PM

Seriously,
something needs to be done. Barrel ban, issues now on surplus rifles, existing bans. All are unconstitutional. I for one am sick of writing letters every month to every politician and Guns rights group, and nothing is changing, It gets worse every day.

As a group, gun owners are far to unorganized and lazy to stand up and fight. There have already been polls here on who would actually fight, who would turn in, and who would hide everything. Even here, among some of the more active guys, the general opinion was to simply hide our weapons. That is BS. We should not have to hide what is constitutionally ours, especially from a Gov agency that serves little or no purpose.

Lets actually put this site to good use instead of always re-hashing the Muslim, Zombie, Red china, Russian, Mexican invasion shit and actually do something to protect what we hold so dear. It is the ATF, and other Gov agencies that we need to worry about far more.

Class action lawsuit?
Can we actually get manufacturers involved in fighting this?
Seriously we need to start taking action. Anyone with any ideas, please post on them.
We need to push this and not keep rolling over any more. We have never truly fought this BS, and it is time to start. So, How???

Thanks for being here,
IJ

Hey ATF, I know you visit and check up on us "criminals" so this is just for you.
:gofuckoff

When the fuck will you ever understand one simple little sentence?
"...Shall not be infringed"!!!

We are law abiding citizens, and your shit only effects us, not the criminals you intend on limiting. Get your fucking heads out of the sand and stop shitting on our Constitution!

Prometheus606

07-21-2005, 10:05 PM

On the serious tip..... Write your Reps like I do and ask for the "batfe" to reorganized and there power to make laws or "rules" as they call them removed.....

Rusty

integratedj

07-21-2005, 10:18 PM

That is something I always throw in every letter I send. I write a minimum of once a month to every one of my reps.
There has got to be something we can do. We have so many people here, granted not all member show up a lot, but damn, we should be able to get something Rolling. Other forums included as well, seeing as this effects all of us.
IJ

Lysander

07-21-2005, 10:42 PM

The Supreme Court is against, they will never hear the case if it makes it that far. Even if they did, history shows they will rule against us.

The President is against us, he could have easily stopped this but was too busy with Presidente Fox.

The AG is against, he too could have stopped this but he was in a meeting with La Raza.

Our Reps have done nothing, and will continue to do nothing, no matter how much we write them. No money in it for them.

The NRA and GOA won't do anything about this, that much is and has been obvious for a while. As far as I know everytime the BATF has come up with some ban on imports the NRA has done nothing, the GOA looks ready to follow suit.

This is what happens when we continue to choose the lesser of two evils, in the end we still have Evil. I will continue to do everything I can to turn this around, but I fear it has already gone too far for us to change things the nice way, but I'm all for trying. Next they'll ban the importation of ammunition, I give it less than 4 years. The time for sitting and writing has fast drawn to a close, its time to get of our asses and do something. Why haven't we marched on Washington? WHy do we continue to throw our votes away for a Party that pisses on us as soon as they are in power? Why do we continue to play suckers? We cannot and have never been able to win by their rules, its time we pulled a page from the Civil Rights movement, and failing that the Independence movement and make them play by our rules. We have the numbers, we have the money, we have the power. Remember, voting is an exercise of violence, of political power.

TwoLaneBlackTop

07-21-2005, 11:05 PM

Use what is remaining of the second amendment to save the second amendment if needed.

meatball

07-21-2005, 11:45 PM

I doubt you would ever be able to get any of the US manufacturers in on a class action due to the fact that the "sporting purpose" clause was requested by Remington, Winchester, et al...

integratedj

07-21-2005, 11:47 PM

Do you all honostly think that a march would accomplish something? I am more than happy to conribute. A set date and time would be great.
July 4th 2006?

One thing I would like to point out here.

1096 members online right now.
100 members viewing right now in the GWD
Thread has been up for almost hours
This thread has ONLY been viewed 34 times.

No fucking wonder that our rights are going to shit in front of us. On Gunsnet, where we come to discuss guns and our rights, something important is ignored. Real comforting. I see a bright future for our rights.

wallbuster

07-21-2005, 11:55 PM

Gundwulf

07-22-2005, 12:05 AM

Maybe we need to take up arms. :ywoot

c4550

07-22-2005, 12:09 AM

A march, I like that idea. Not much we can do except hope that the SCOTUS takes a Second Amendment case and we have the votes to win it from the bench. A president that was serious about Second Amendment issues could put a stop to their bs. Lawmakers to change the law to remove sporting would be a goood start.

AvtomatKalashnikova

07-22-2005, 12:09 AM

We can write letters but that's about it. THe gun industry in America is not going to be hurt by this, certainly not the big ones that can hire lobbiests. The big players such as Colt, Bushmaster, Remington, Ruger, S&W, and Springfield could care less about import bans, in fact, they favor them as it keeps the competition out. If you can't get your milsurplus parts kit to build inexpensive semiauto, you would have to buy more expensive domestically made US guns. It's all a matter of money, they could care about 2A as far as it allows them to make guns to sell, but when it comes to lobbying for absolutes of 2A, you wont find many backers, not even in NRA. Everyone has just accepted "tolerable" limits on 2nd Amendment.

I am not a defeatist but the current situation is just sad.

integratedj

07-22-2005, 12:22 AM

hrm..a march on washington....i wonder what the pole smokers on capitol hill would think if there was a couple million legal gun owners armed to the teeth sick and tired of them taking our rights away marching into the city to take back what is rightfully ours?

i for one would think it would be an awesome sight to see the people take back what the gov has spent the last 100+ years taking away and i would most likely be in that crowd if it ever came to pass.

I can pretty much Gaurantee that an armed march would mean an open fire by the ATF and every other GOV agency onto the marchers. "They felt threatend by the criminal Militia and were justified in "Defending" themselves". Is all they would have to say.

Writing in to our reps is not enough.

DodgeGTS

07-22-2005, 12:28 AM

i wonder what the pole smokers on capitol hill would think if there was a couple million legal gun owners armed to the teeth sick and tired of them taking our rights away marching into the city to take back what is rightfully ours?

They would call in the Secret Service, Feds, local Police and maybe even the military if the numbers were big enough. All with itchy trigger fingers ready to neutralize this gathering of criminals.

The only thing that can improve the situation is the Supreme Court. And in light of the recent ruling on land theft, Im getting the feeling that they are not on "our side".

If only there was a way to make the 2nd profitable to the politicians....... If gun rights somehow leads to the lining of their pockets, they would be sure to come to our side. Ideas?

tcco

07-22-2005, 12:38 AM

+1 integrateddj,

Heres my $.02.

1) Perhaps start a new site, where all members of the diverse variety pro-gun sites can unite to take some sort of action, even if menial against the anti-gunners. Unlike the NRA, the actual members will have say in what we go after and defend. There is power in numbers, and we need to pool all of our resources. SERIOUSLY, WE NEED TO GET EVERYONE WHO IS WILLING TO DO SOMETHING TOGETHER.

2) Find a group of moderators to provide some sort of direction or structured action that group members could take part in, whether its send out letters, marches, that know or have experience in what to do that would work for our cause.

this is a very vague idea perhaps someone can build off it

integratedj

07-22-2005, 12:50 AM

Great idea except for one thing. It will take time to build a membership on a new site, too long I fear to get anything accomplished. Here we already have thousands of members, all with at least an interest in these weapons that are effected by the bans.
And god damn it if we can't get passed BS trash talking between other sites long enough to at least accomplish something as a unified group. Why do we fight with each other over the same shit we all want?
IJ

tcco

07-22-2005, 12:57 AM

ubersoldate

07-22-2005, 01:01 AM

wallbuster

07-22-2005, 02:55 AM

I can pretty much Gaurantee that an armed march would mean an open fire by the ATF and every other GOV agency onto the marchers. "They felt threatend by the criminal Militia and were justified in "Defending" themselves". Is all they would have to say.

They would call in the Secret Service, Feds, local Police and maybe even the military if the numbers were big enough. All with itchy trigger fingers ready to neutralize this gathering of criminals.

ahhh but you forget the numbers. say 2 million gun owners armed to the teeth marching on the capitol to take America back from the socialist regime we call a government is not small potatoes. at best they could muster up a few thousand ferdales against the horde of patriots (who are also just as well armed if not better by this time). i doubt the military would fire upon citizens seeking to regain what the govt has taken from them because also, the military personnel are citizens as well with the same rights taken. it would be quite hard to put down such an uprising unless they called the entire military back home and enlisted the aid of every LEO and fed agency around and all were willing to defend the socialists on capitol hill, even if it meant they could die in doing so. but this is a far cry from what they would actually do. most would join the majority and say 'screw the politicians, im for taking my country back, besides, its not gonna go well for us with this many pissed off citizens'. such an action would make a very very loud statement that would be heard round the world for sure that the American people are tired of a govt usurping the rights of its citizens so the fatcats can get fatter and have more control. no, not likely to quell an uprising of 2 million quite so fast, if at all.

ah well, so much for wishful thinking. it will never happen seeing as at least 98% of Americans are gutless to do anything about their march down the road to complete socialism and eventually communism. the dems and their ilk are spreading what would be known as utopian socialism and many are buying it when in fact, if/when it gets here, its going to be more like a total socialist regime. many may not realize it now but we are already well on the way. we already have state socialism. go look up the definition of socialism on Merriam-Webster Online and you will have 5 different definitions. youll see what i mean.

daemon734

07-22-2005, 02:55 AM

i would go for a march. my parents live an hour from DC so me and a couple gunsnetters could get free board...

Prometheus606

07-22-2005, 03:26 AM

My new truck will hold 4.... caravan!

THE MILLION GUN MARCH!!!

Rusty

mortis

07-22-2005, 10:28 AM

I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I take that oath to heart and must say this: Anyone that attacks the Constitution is my enemy, period. If we can get the strength of anyone who loves freedom, or took this oath, I will stand with them and take back our rights, freedoms, and the Constitution.

Mortis...

PS, I am quite serious. But, if we are going to break the law in DC (being armed and all) we need to be prepared to fight. We all need to hang to together; else we will surely hang separately.

John Moses Browning

07-22-2005, 11:20 AM

If something were to be organized, to the likes of what Prometheus said, I would be dead-on intent in participating. I live out West in Colorado, but if any other Coloradans were coming.. road trip / truck convoy to D.C. Bring some food, some water, your best rifle, your best pistol, and a good knife..

sam adams

07-22-2005, 11:44 AM

Disobey! I just saw where the Mayor of NYC authorized RANDOM searches of people that are riding the subways. I think New York has some farged up laws anyway. I would not submit to their REQUEST to search me, if they (the Stassi) will waste my time ......I will waste theirs as well. I all had to be run DOWNTOWN every time pretty soon it would end! I agree that Americans have rolled over far to often, be a stick in the mud and their schemes will get expensive!

We should see if the MODS will start a thread of Corperations and States that are un-American so we can collectively boycott them with our greenbacks. We can start a Honor list we sign onto declaring that we will not go there or buy from these places that do not share American ideals. What do you all thing of this idea? :gun: :gun:

imanaknut

07-22-2005, 12:05 PM

A march on Washington would be a nice idea, but if for one minute anyone doesn't think that the confrontation between armed citizens and the government backed police would not turn violent has failed to learn from history. Most here are not old enough to remember "Kent State". I am, and I remember it like it was yesterday. Unarmed students were protesting "things" on campus, and the governor called out the state national guard. 4 unarmed students died, and many were injured when the military opened fire. No one knew who gave the order to fire, but it doesn't matter, four students lay dead, several injured. What do you think would happen if armed citizens were to face off against a government backed force?

The Second Revolution? If you do march on Washington, you must be ready to assume the worst, and will you have the will to kill for your beliefs as those patriots did hundreds of years ago?

HammerHead

07-22-2005, 04:16 PM

What do you think would happen if armed citizens were to face off against a government backed force?

I think there's a pretty good record of what HAS happened when armed (or un-armed) citizens face off against a gov. backed force. Think Ruby Ridge, and Waco. Google search "Bonus Expeditionary Army (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/2000/bonus0412.htm) " or "Bonus Army March" to see how the government reacted to some 20,000 indigent, un-armed WWI veterans who marched on Washinton in the spring of 1932 to demand early payment of a promised wartime bonus.
History leaves little doubt as to what would happen.

BTW: If you haven't done it already, read "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross.

HellTeeOne

07-22-2005, 04:28 PM

I would guarantee that if ten thousand or so gun owners legally open carried at a march, they would be met by the national guard with tanks, helicopters, and anything else in the conventional ground force arsenal, even if they were not breaking a single law.
You could go ahead and count on an episode of our government firing tank howitzers and ma deuces at a crowd of people who aernt breaking a single law, and the media would paint a picture of those slain in cold blood as child molesters the same way they did to that guy in Waco.

The only hope would be the national guard troops refusing to carry out orders.

sam adams

07-22-2005, 05:03 PM

+1 Hammerhead! They called it the mud march, they actually set up a huge camp to stay at. When the strong arms of the US came to eliminate the GYPSIE camp shanties there were names like D. Eisenhower and Patton leading the way! Face it ...we live in a police state, the mere fact anyone might think BIG BROTHER is reading and checking these forums confirms that.

London they said has more than 250,000 cameras monitoring 24/7, they think they found some of the SOB's that are causing death's over there. HMMM! How long before it becomes the accepted norm here. IT is only for your own good RIGHT!! Keep the faith, as long as the American spirit lives here I think it will prevail eventually! I am sick of the Gestapo mind set that they are only enforcing the laws and dont make them, wake the fuck up!!!!....you live here too and YOUR posterity will be left to live with the effects of the policies that you so gallantly keep in place! :gun: :gun:

c4550

07-22-2005, 05:04 PM

Can't march with guns. Have a march unarmed. If we get enough people, we'll be heard. Bringing a gun to a protest is a profoundly stupid idea. First rule of concealed carry or gun in the house. Don't bother getting one unless you will use it if you have to. Marching on DC armed pretty much guarantees you're going to need it. And you aren't going to win. Peaceful, but loud protest, and civil disobedience in numbers. And I don't recommend #2 ... yet. We need to do something to be heard. Telling one another about it is preaching to the choir :)

britt

07-22-2005, 05:22 PM

My guess is that importers will quickly find a way around the Clinton barrel ban on kits and the current administration will do nothing to block it.

The only thing I have heard new about imported surplus firearms is the Dept. of State has told ATF to relax the Clinton imposed ATF "rule change" on importing U.S. military firearms and other U.S. military equipment. This has been in the works for over a year. Result: Any U.S. military firearms sold or give away on a lend lease can now be re-imported: Md.1911 .45 cal pistols, M1 carbines, M1 Garands, Springfields, M14 parts kits etc.

integratedj

07-22-2005, 05:28 PM

See, the point we need to make, is that Law abiding citizens have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms. We need to get across to the Gov that we aren't going to take it any more. Only problem with an armed march, especially in DC, is that simply doing that is against the law there. It needs to be done in a very orderly, peacful and unarmed manner, otherwise it is just fuel in the fire against us. Every law needs to be followed to a god damn T, any permits we need filed have to be done, and if simply spitting on the side walk in DC is illegal, then we have to avoid that. This needs to come off very professional or we lose. Can't even have one jackass bubba in the bunch start any confrontation or we lose. I am dead serious when I say I will be there, and I know I can count on others, but the numbers need to be huge to get the point across. Otherwise we look like a weak minority that doesn't need to be listened to.

Unarmed Civil response first, Heavily armed take down in protection of the constitution as a last resort, otherwise we look like terrorists, which we definately are not.

How far in advance should this be planned? What would be the best date for this? Anyone got any good ideas on this?
IJ

Lysander

07-22-2005, 05:32 PM

Going to have to be one year in advance, and a web page advertising it that could be easily linked across all gun boards would be necessary.

Look what word of mouth did for the Minutemen before the Media ever picked it up. Draw lessons from their experience.

integratedj

07-22-2005, 05:33 PM

Good call on that one.

cheezytwang

07-22-2005, 05:36 PM

i am in for the million gun march, gimme details..

wallbuster

07-22-2005, 05:39 PM

ok, if marching armed is a no-no, then everyone take and carve a wooden dummy of their favorite rifles and sling it. cant get you for carrying around a friggin piece of wood.

Thylacine

07-22-2005, 05:43 PM

I think I would be "IN" for it. I could help with some graphics. I will get on it tonight after work.

ok, if marching armed is a no-no, then everyone take and carve a wooden dummy of their favorite rifles and sling it. cant get you for carrying around a friggin piece of wood.

Maybe a wooden sword. ?? Sign of being a freed gladiator in Roman era.

integratedj

07-22-2005, 05:53 PM

I am looking at web names for the site.

So far these are open

www.protectthesecond.com

www.protectthe2nd.com

www.defendthesecond.com

Come up with other web names that would work for everyone. and then lets decide on this.
The faster we get moving the better.
IJ

SaAkR1

07-22-2005, 05:57 PM

I agree that a armed march is not a good idea, the libral media would make it look like we are terrorists/neo-nazis or somthing els dumb

I would march, fuck yah, but a peacfull and well planed march, like the civil rights marches in the 60s

CelticDragon1972

07-22-2005, 06:02 PM

O.S.O.K.

07-22-2005, 06:02 PM

My thoughts:

What we need to do is have peaceful non-armed demonstrations at every state capital accross the country - all on the same day or days. That is more acheivable than a massed march in DC. At least at first it is and if that is pulled-off, then people will be motivated to go to DC for a multi-million man showing.

This needs to be unarmed. As already stated, an armed demonstration will be met with armed force.

This is the path that we should take - state capital demonstrations all accross the country. Press releases in every state, in every city, etc. - all accross the country. All with the same message and even using the same graphics and verbiage on the signs, press releases, etc. Make it a Friday evening, Saturday and Sunday with scheduled improvised "religious services" for those missing church, etc. on Sunday morning. We could even organize cook-outs, etc. to make sure everybody gets food, water, etc. - rent portajohns, etc.

The internet would allow for this to be coordinated without any cost at all.

I believe that if we pulled that off and then followed with a massive un-armed demonstration in DC, then we would get action.

So, having said this, I would next say that we need to start with organizing a corps of "instigators" in each state that would then recruit more instigators that would then focus on participants. We give this movement a catchy name that stresses patriotism and positive change. "The new boston tea party coalition" or something.

I think if we get things going, and it's a positive force, then we could get GOA, NRA and even the hunting clubs to join the fray. Now that would be a force to be reconned with.

Lets set-up a forum just for the purpose of getting this organized - what say David? Surely we have enough guys on this board (and we can get all of the other boards to participate too) to start this process.

Start small and work big. Each of use takes on an acheivable sub-goal that coordinates with the overall larger goal.

That's how I see this REALLY happening.

Look what the Minutemen did on the border with a very small number of people...

Lysander

07-22-2005, 06:05 PM

Maybe a wooden sword. ?? Sign of being a freed gladiator in Roman era.

Good call on that.

Oh, and I'll donate cash for registering the domain name, we need this to look as proffessional as possible so pop ups or cheesy midis playing in the background.

CelticDragon1972

07-22-2005, 06:11 PM

We give this movement a catchy name that stresses patriotism and positive change. The new boston tea party or something.

The Twenty-First Century Patriots :)

Good call on that.

Oh, and I'll donate cash for registering the domain name, we need this to look as proffessional as possible so pop ups or cheesy midis playing in the background.

If you need help with the website, I'm in. :)

O.S.O.K.

07-22-2005, 06:12 PM

Wow - while I was typing up my long post, I see that you other guys were thinking along the same lines... I think we're on to something here!

I'm going to PM Gunsnet Staff -

Done - asked him to check this out- he can help tremendously, and besides he posted a bunch of requests to write your representatives, so I am sure he'll dig this!

integratedj

07-22-2005, 06:21 PM

CelticDragon1972

07-22-2005, 06:49 PM

What about having someone set up an account, like maybe a PayPal account, for contributions to the "cause"?

If we get this off the ground, it's not going to be cheap.

What do you think?

Also, maybe have a patch design with the name of the "cause" and possibly the state of which that part of the "cause" is stationed?

These are ideas....

Prometheus606

07-22-2005, 06:58 PM

Good Idea OSOK..... Rally at your state capitals....

WE NEED TO GET THE BALL ROLLING ON THIS...

I WILL DONATE MONEY TO PAY FOR BANDWIDTH AND CONTACT AS MANY PEOPLE AS I CAN...

LETS MAKE THIS HAPPEN...

THEN TIME IS NOW!!!!!!

CelticDragon1972

07-22-2005, 07:14 PM

So, having said this, I would next say that we need to start with organizing a corps of "instigators" in each state that would then recruit more instigators that would then focus on participants. We give this movement a catchy name that stresses patriotism and positive change. "The new boston tea party coalition" or something.

I think if we get things going, and it's a positive force, then we could get GOA, NRA and even the hunting clubs to join the fray. Now that would be a force to be reconned with.

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//3242/2420921st-med.JPG

slaphappy

07-22-2005, 07:45 PM

I think at some point for this to be huge, we will need the involvement of the NRA. They won't even think getting involved though until there is sufficient movement and participation at the grass roots level. OSOK hit the nail on the head, we have to start local first. Also, it's going to be important to realize the difference between marches put on by the libs and this one: We are employed. They are studends and hippies. I'm in for the Texas Division.

insider

07-22-2005, 07:55 PM

Hey ATF stop shitting on law abiding citizens and start going after REAL criminals!!!!!!!
Start going after Muslim terrorists, and illegal aliens, and stop playing this politically correct BULLSHIT!!!!!!! What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?????
IT'S THE CRIMINALS STUPID, NOT US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get some balls and stop being the puppets of government.
My tax dollars pay your salary, you work for us-not against us.

imanaknut

07-22-2005, 08:04 PM

First, remember Kent State around 1969 or so, and if you don't I suggest you all look it up.

Second, after Columbus, Ohio banned many firearms, the NRA protested by cancelling their meeting there. Then they disappeared. Their magazine pushes protection of hunting land, but for some reason, they don't push for protection of the second amendment rights of those people of Ohio that just lost their rights!!!! For some reason I do not expect the NRA would care to get involve with saving the 2nd amendment with us, they are too busy collecting money to save land for hunting, which by the time they get that done, all firearms will be banned. And yes, I am an NRA member.

As for 50 seperate marches into each state capital, count me in.

insider

07-22-2005, 08:06 PM

We marched on Tallahssee, and won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you muster enough people to march to Washington?????????????
:ywoot :ywoot :ywoot :ywoot :ywoot :ywoot :ywoot :ywoot :ywoot

MacksGuns

07-22-2005, 08:30 PM

Is someone going to make a site, if not, i am somewhat interested in starting one.

integratedj

07-22-2005, 09:07 PM

I don't know HTML or anything else well enough to build the site myself, Who here can actually build one that looks professional?
IJ

Lysander

07-22-2005, 09:24 PM

Prometheus606

07-22-2005, 09:41 PM

Is someone going to make a site, if not, i am somewhat interested in starting one.

I am going to talk to the owner of this site who I know well, and see if he can help us out....

Rusty

Ready

07-22-2005, 09:46 PM

slaphappy

07-22-2005, 10:05 PM

If you're going to march, the nations capital is the only place to do it. Attempting to organize a march in every state capital is going to complicate the task and draw from the numbers of attendees. It will be difficult enough organizing and obtaining a permit for one city, let alone 50. If Philly can draw a million people for Live 8, if Million Mom March and Million Man March can do it in D.C., no reason 2A supporters can't.

Again, we are the employed. The people who went to the other events you mentioned had nothing better to do anyway. And you can bet that they will do their best to match us in numbers to oppose us. I can make a trip to Austin pretty easily, but DC better be worth it. Starting at the state level will get some press and buzz going to help spread the word for the big one. This is a huge country, and we need localized leadership and structure for this to ever work. Plus, a lot of states have more restrictive laws than the feds, so a good protesting there is in order too.

CorpseEater

07-22-2005, 10:09 PM

slaphappy

07-22-2005, 10:17 PM

AKnut has been making solid points, theres been MANY instances in the history of the US police state of riot cops opening fire on unarmed civilians. Including more recent ones with police using "less than lethal" weapons in an incorrect way at point blank range, killing a young girl. Mass arrests of protestors in NYC including random people just walking out of a store and being held in overcrowded holding cells for 3 days without being processed or charged.

The Federal Government has a long, rich history of being very hostile to any of this "we the people" garbage, as they see it.

If we are going to act like assholes like the NYC protestors, then I want no part of it. If we act like decent human beings, nothing like that is going to happen. Besides, the majority of the cops (at least at the local level) are going to be sympathetic to our cause.

DodgeGTS

07-22-2005, 11:08 PM

Besides, the majority of the cops (at least at the local level) are going to be sympathetic to our cause.

Are you talking about DC cops? :lool:

Texas... maybe. But, dont have that attitude in DC.

imanaknut

07-22-2005, 11:17 PM

I have to echo what DodgeGTS said, here in Indiana the local police are on our side, this is one of the most firearm friendly states in the Union, but DC is another story, they are the most firearm hostile city in the United States of America.

CorpseEater

07-22-2005, 11:18 PM

If we are going to act like assholes like the NYC protestors, then I want no part of it. If we act like decent human beings, nothing like that is going to happen. Besides, the majority of the cops (at least at the local level) are going to be sympathetic to our cause.

The police still acted wrongly in making sweeping, indiscriminate arrests that got numerous completely innocent people not even there to protest thrown into a paddy wagon and sent off to a dank, overcrowded cell for up to 3 days with no charges brought against them. There were alot of instances all over NYC where the police acted highly suspicious, and were walking around videotaping and taking photographs of people that weren't committing any crimes except exercising the first amendment.

And its not limited to those protests, riot police have acted extremely hostile against all kinds of protestors, including christian pro-life protestors.

Brandywine

07-22-2005, 11:44 PM

Cops are not really ever on the side of protesters, at least not in this day and age. You all bring up great points, and I will be there whether in DC or Albany. Two quick things, without trying to sound cynicial:

1) If the turnout is less than expected, it is going to look bad. Lots of gatherings say things like "2 million expected..." and then only 80,000 people show up. It just takes the wind out of things to over hype.

2) Prepare to be marginalized. These gatherings will be written off by the press as groups of gun nut, redneck, right wing terrorists. And unless someone can think of a way to help the sheeple see through those lies, all of this is useless. The reason the ATF/fed has become so bold is that they CAN. Americans, esp. since 9/11, will believe whatever the news and the gov't (one in the same) tell them. It will take some sort of angle...and though lots of red white & blue seems like a good angle, I think it will take something more.

Good luck and godspeed. I'm glad there are at least a few of us who see the big picture.

Oswald Bastable

07-23-2005, 12:06 AM

ok, if marching armed is a no-no, then everyone take and carve a wooden dummy of their favorite rifles and sling it. cant get you for carrying around a friggin piece of wood.

Not good...

Maybe a wooden sword. ?? Sign of being a freed gladiator in Roman era.

Nor this either...

It must be completely unarmed. Anything that could be construed to be a weapon from a distance will be assumed to be, in fact, a weapon. Most likely, anything that can be carried in hand on such a march, anything at all could be used as an 'excuse' for the federales to claim weapon. Cameras...even a portable walkman/ipod could be used as an 'excuse' for the fedearales to open fire. Hell, even a pop can. I'd definitely think long and hard about any type of replica weapon in such an endeavor.

As to the website idea...some possibilities for daily/weekly actions...

I believe that letter writing/emails to reps/sens/local pols do have some effect. Since the idea has already been brought up of making this a state level organization to begin with, everyone should have to name the state they're from when signing up.

The local groups should be reponsible for keeping abreast of local 2a legislation, and running an email/letter campaign to all state and federal pols weekly at the very least. The main site should be responsible for tracking and informing the state groups of all federal legislation that state reps/sens have to be petitioned on. Basic letters can be written for each piece of legislation that affects 2a rights and sent in a "We the undersigned" format that will automatically include all the signatures of those from each of our state groups...a statewide re-declaration of independence if you will...happening simultaneously in all states.

I know little about html programming and email spambots, but I'd think this would be something that the programmers among us could automate reasonably easily (at least on the email front).

For the letter writing part, each state could have it's own donation fund for operations, with a percentage being forwarded to the main site for overall operations. At the state level, initially, this would be able to pay for postage costs of mailing the same generated letters as were emailed. Again, these emailings/mailings should go out at least once a week. A barrage of signatories all opposed to any anti 2a legislation, or in support of pro 2a. As people joined and added to the contributions, bigger things like marches to state capitals could be organized (someone mentioned supplying food and drink for the rally participants previously).

I'd look at this taking at least a year, to a year and a half for this to all foment to a point where a national rally/march could possibly be organized. To be safe, I'd say that July 4th 2007 would be the most reasonable target for a national march....

Guns Network Staff

07-23-2005, 01:49 AM

Give me a chance to think on this over the weekend.

daemon734

07-23-2005, 02:02 AM

what about starting small, like a rally at a federal building in austin to protest the ATF's law creation abilities? im sure more would spring up, and if we hit all the boards for support for a universal issue we could very well get a lot of people.

Antixx

07-23-2005, 02:19 AM

All I can say is that I'll participate in any of the above suggestions!

Thylacine

07-23-2005, 03:09 AM

I have to admit that the wooden sword is a bad idea.

But I am still in for this!

klauss

07-23-2005, 03:25 AM

An armed march does not sound good to me, remember perception is reality. If you are percieved as a threat, it does not matter if you are one or not, you will be treated as one.

Also we would need to get the hunters/sportsmen invovled. I don't know the numbers but I would guess the vast majority of gun owners are hunters/sportsman.

Without their support, the task would be much more difficult imo. So the trick is to get them behind us in this.Any thoughts on that?

MilitantBob

07-23-2005, 06:24 AM

Put my down for damn near anything that isn't downright illegal.

I have been getting more and more pissed off about all the anti-gun legislation and propaganda lately.

I am getting sick and tired of just complaining to my elected "representatives". Action is needed. I leave it to those more seasoned then I to determine that action.

You can count on my time and effort, and money when possible.

Please, do us all a favor and keep everyone posted on any and all developments in this movement.

Ready

07-23-2005, 06:40 AM

Pin this so it doesn't fade to black.

slaphappy

07-23-2005, 10:34 AM

Should this go to General Discussion where it will get more eyes?

integratedj

07-23-2005, 11:20 AM

See, I come in here this morning, and try to find this thread to check its progression, and I go through page after page and can't find it. I started to get pissed thinking it for some reason was removed, then I see it pinned. This is a great start in the right direction. The more we do the better, and the sooner we act, the faster we can possibly end this shit.

Thank you GNS for also getting involved.

Some kind of commercial sponsers of this cause would be great. If any of you know shop owners talk to them and get them in on this. I am going to hit up every local shop and manufacturer out here, especially AZEX, AMEETEC, Cav Arms, and all of the others.
IJ

Cobalt60

07-23-2005, 12:05 PM

Already being picked up by the bloggers...

Oscar Poppa (http://oscarpoppa.blogspot.com/2005/07/million-gun-march.html)

O.S.O.K.

07-23-2005, 12:51 PM

This is great!

CelticDragon - I really like this:
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//3242/2420921st-med.JPG

I have seen some excellent ideas:

State Chapters with consolidated logo - this breeds unity of purpose - how about mission statement or slogan too? Ideas? T-shirts - unity and revenue.

Web Site or special Forum dedicated to this.

Paypal account set-up for donations ( I will pledge $50 right now - we will need funds.

This will happen! It only took 24% of the population of colonial America to start a revolution that lead to the creation of the USA. And the 24% were only lead by a very few.

Some further thoughts:

We need to focus on the initial organization goals - getting the state chapters in place and developing coordinated strategies - with a timeline - project management is what I'm speaking of here. We need to apply standard business practices to acheive our goals.

Initial goal ideas:

1) Recruit leaders in each state to for chapters. Probably need to fill "posititions" or "offices" in each state -general manager, communications manager, logistics mgr. and funding mgr. with normal controls like multiple signatures to write checks and for decisions to be made. Regular meeting times set. This can just be chat sessions on this board!
2) Agree on short term and long term goals. Long term would be full restoration of 2nd amendment rights - right? Short term goals are like what I'm listing here - steps towards the long term or overall goal.
3) Establish the tools needed to reach the goals - like the web site and fund raising.
4) Agree on the merchandising tools needed - the logos, the slogan, etc. to provide a clear, common message that will be comunicated in each state via press releases, flyers (at gun shops, gun shows, hunting expos, etc.).
5) At some point, we should probably have a meeting of the leaders - face to face or via video conferencing at Kinko's or just scheduled chat sessions on this board to minimize cost. Maybe we need to do this right after the state leaders are established?

Guys, if we get the leadership in place, goals established and tools procured, then we will do this. This is how its done.

I can't stress this enough - we have the desire, the talent and motivation - now we need the structure or "machine" in place to make it reality.

Like my title says: I AM PUMPPED. :cupjoe:

StooperZero

07-23-2005, 01:24 PM

slaphappy

07-23-2005, 01:50 PM

In all honesty I don't think the Gov't cares even if you had 25,000,000 show up . The Gov't could care less about you and your rights, they have an agenda and they're dead set on it.

I won't say anything else except , all the armchair commandoing ,macho,git er' done talk isn't gonna mean shit. Refer to paragraph 1.

Well, it's all "armchair commandoing ,macho,git er' done talk" until it happens. And I'm not near as pessimistic as you are about the government. There was a LOT of pressure on the government to renew the AWB, and they didn't. That was a victory. The MAJORITY of states now have Shall Issue CCW laws now. That's a victory. We have the momentum in our favor, actually. What we are trying to do is get people to notice what is going on with the ATF. Nobody is talking about it in Washington, and we want to force a conversation. The outcome of that conversation is out of our hands, ultimately, but this is a subject that is not even on Congress' or the President's radar. Maybe we won't be heard, but if we don't speak up, we sure as hell won't be.

CelticDragon1972

07-23-2005, 02:00 PM

4) Agree on the merchandising tools needed - the logos, the slogan, etc. to provide a clear, common message that will be comunicated in each state via press releases, flyers (at gun shops, gun shows, hunting expos, etc.)

Any logo/slogan we decide to use WILL have to be professionally done. If this is going to work, we need a strong logo/slogan. The one I did was just an idea and can be improved on. It was just to give the general idea.

Any logo/slogan we decide to use WILL have to be uniform, so anyone who sees it will know what it means.

Thats what one of the 1st steps should be: Deciding on a logo/slogan.

:)

Once we have decided on a logo/slogan, we can change our user titles to reflect this.

See an example under my username to the left.

:)

Even the avatars can be changed. This is a good first step to unifying the members of the gun forums...be it here or elsewhere.

:)

O.S.O.K.

07-23-2005, 02:01 PM

CelticDragon - agreed. I understand that was a quick effort, but it is good IMHO.

Lets all understand what happened with this latest ruling from the BATFE. They lost their controls and power when the AWB sunset ocurred. So, they decided to use their powers and re-institute it.

This is what is really pissing us all off - the causal nature of their decision and "stroke of the pen, law of the land" OPPRESSION.

This is quite litterally the straw that broke the camel's back.

I have posted threads throughout Gunsnet and have asked permission to post in Parallax Bill's board too. Now going to Hannity's board to post a link here.

Let's keep the ball rolling!

MakeWay4theAK: with all due respect, if you don't want to participate - don't, but please don't work against this effort.

CelticDragon1972

07-23-2005, 02:27 PM

This site has over 600,000 members....

Second Amendment Foundation (http://www.saf.org/)

Here's something of interest...wasn't sure where to post it, so I figured I would post here since this is what it's about anyways...

:)

NEWS RELEASE
Second Amendment Foundation
12500 NE Tenth Place • Bellevue, WA 98005
(425) 454-7012 • FAX (425) 451-3959 • www.saf.org

SAF CHALLENGES SENATE DEMOCRATS TO PROVE SUPPORT OF 2ND AMENDMENT

For Immediate Release: 7/20/2005

BELLEVUE, WA – President Bush’s nomination of Judge John G. Roberts of the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C. to succeed retiring Associate Justice Sandra Day O’Connor on the U.S. Supreme Court will give Senate Democrats an opportunity to demonstrate their long-claimed support for the Second Amendment.

There have been no clear-cut rulings by Judge Roberts to suggest one way or the other how he looks at the Amendment, but his history shows a strict constructionist view of the Constitution. Alan M. Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), suggested that during the confirmation hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee, the nominee be quizzed on his interpretation of this important individual civil right.

“Senate Democrats have talked the talk, and now they can walk the walk,” said Gottlieb. “Someone on that panel needs to ask whether the nominee believes the Second Amendment affirms an individual right to keep and bear arms, as originally envisioned by the Framers.

“If Judge Roberts supports the individual right interpretation, then Senate Democrats have a clear obligation to vote for confirmation,” Gottlieb observed. “On the other hand, if Judge Roberts adheres to the fantasy that the Amendment is only written to protect some sort of ‘collective right’ of the states to organize militias, then those same Democrats have a duty to reject this nomination.

“For too long,” he continued, “lower court judges whose nominations were supported by Democrats have gotten away with wrongly suggesting that the Second Amendment – unlike any of the other Amendments in the Bill of Rights – does not mean what it says. It is time for Democrats, who claim to believe the Second Amendment protects an individual civil right, to step up to the plate and prove it. The day is looming when the high court will rule on a Second Amendment case. When that day arrives, this country will need a majority on the court that has read and understands the Amendment as it was written.”

The Second Amendment Foundation is the nation’s oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 600,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control. SAF has previously funded successful firearms-related suits against the cities of Los Angeles; New Haven, CT; and San Francisco on behalf of American gun owners, a lawsuit against the cities suing gun makers & an amicus brief & fund for the Emerson case holding the Second Amendment as an individual right.

-END-

CETME

07-23-2005, 02:38 PM

Sounds very interesting guys.... I will keep checking on this thread to see how it progresses

O.S.O.K.

07-23-2005, 03:40 PM

CelticDragon - if you are a member there, post a link over to this thread! We can use all of the support we can get! :D

Rahatlakhoom

07-23-2005, 04:21 PM

Great thread here.
We've got to keep generating ideas on how to approach the problem until
we create a problem for the lawgivers.
If we take the conventional route, we become a manageable liability.
The march is managed by police escorts, managed by media,
managed out of existence.

If 2 million bodies clog the streets of DC, then it's unmanagable until
the issue is resolved. Grab them by the belt buckle and get uncomfortably
close. If a clog scenario is explicitly put together in a demonstratible
fashion and the gov knows a huge group is itching to do it, then it will
cave in to a massive petition just to avoid the embarrasment.

We can't bring firearms at this juncture, even though everyone must
be aware of potential lethality of gov snipers and other high-tech
anti personel weapons.

johnl

07-23-2005, 04:36 PM

As mentioned above, the momentum has shifted in our favor slightly. Now we need to give it a good, hard shove the rest of the way. It is time for ALL gunowners to come together and either put up or shut up.

Count me in.

O.S.O.K.

07-23-2005, 05:41 PM

Rahatlakhoom: That should be our end goal in terms of action. But getting state capital demonstrations to happen is easier and will lead to the one big DC protest.

We must break this down into manageble pieces.

You don't build a house all at once. You pour the foundations, erect the frame, add the brick and drywall, etc. and end-up with a house.

We must first work on the foundation. Then move to the supports and so on until the big protest comes about - right before the next election.

Prometheus606

07-23-2005, 06:25 PM

I have a lot of experience getting things organized, from Volunteer Fire Departments, School Board, City Council all the way to the Calvert shoot so I must interject a few things.

1. We have to have a CLEAR plan. We have to all be on the same page as to when and where this is going to happen.

2. We have to have a CLEAR agenda as to what we want to accomplish with this rally.

3. We must have Leadership, a group of persons (board of directors if you must) that will take this bull by the horns and not let up

4. We should IMMEDIATELY stop any discussion of being armed. This is a foolhardy move, not only could it be misconstrued as inciting a revolution, we will also loose the support of many many people (including myself). It is not the time to take up arms. Ambrose Bierce told us how to protect freedom “First in the Ballot Box, then the Jury Box, lastly the Cartridge Box” we are still in the first two, let us PRAY that it never comes to the last one.

5. Funding, this will not be cheap. Yes all of us will pay for our own gas to get there, as well as other expenses but we MUST get this message out through various media outlets.

I have left out other things I am sure but these are the first items that come to mind…

Rusty

OLDBEAR

07-23-2005, 06:37 PM

I see the state of Texas has a leader! Wanted: A group from each state to organize and pick a couple of leaders. Each group needs a positive attitude. Short term goal will be to have a voice in the next presidential election. You guys have an idea that will work.
21st Century Patriots for the preservation and restoration of the Second Ammendment.

integratedj

07-23-2005, 06:43 PM

Damn glad to see that this idea is moving very rapidly. Here is suggestion one on keeping things clean and organized.

GNS and Mods, is it possible to build a forum for this discussion only, with a sticky link at the top of every forum directed to it? In it we can post all ideas, and when the groups agree that the individual ideas and goals are good ones, move them up into a locked sticky at the top. That way, all ideas are clearly listed, and we don't have a bunch of filler taking up space and creating confusion. On a simpler note, if all of that is not possible with a new forum, then can we simply make a second sticky below this one, with the above clear cut ideas and goals stated, also locked and only used by mods and GNS to add what is valuable?

Thanks again for providing a place to start this movement. you are much appreciated by myself and I am sure everyone else here.

IJ

GunBum

07-23-2005, 06:46 PM

OK....

My $0.02 worth....

Get out your History Books and start learning.

1.) It is very hard to overturn a popular law.
2.) It is very hard to overturn an unpopular law.
3.) Demonstrations are very slow (if they are even effective at all) at changing policy or opinion.
4.) When the Government sees you as a threat, being unarmed doesn't guarantee you won't be shot at. You can read that as meaning an Armed vs Unarmed protest is totally irrelevent. Just look back at Kent State, the Bonus Marchers, Etc......

My proposal is to take a look at the process by which Prohibition was repealed and start mimicing the model. We don't have to repeal a Constitutional Ammendment, but we do need to protect one. Think about it.

Prometheus606

07-23-2005, 07:13 PM

I see alot of people concerned about being fired upon....

Was Jefferson, how about Washington??

No... If you are as dedicated to FREEDOM as I then you will not worry about this..

It would be stupid for the Federals to fire on us, a group of UNARMED protesters. It would only bring sympathy to our cause.

Personally I would rather die on the Alter of freedom, than kneel before the alter of oppression...

I just hope that it never gets to that point...

Rusty

Prometheus606

07-23-2005, 08:16 PM

We need a list of ALL firearms sites, all Pro Gun Sites, Hannity types... O'Rilley... and once the list is together BOMBART them with information about that..

If we can get just 5 seconds on the O'Rilley Factor our membership in this cause will multiply exponentally....

Rusty

Ready

07-23-2005, 08:34 PM

The arguement is that the right to keep and bear arms is reserved for militia and not civilians, even though the militia, by its very definition, consists of civilians. How does one remove that arguement from the equation? By conforming to the definition.

mi·li·tia
n.
An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.

n 1: civilians trained as soldiers but not part of the regular army [syn: reserves] 2: the entire body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service; "their troops were untrained militia"; "Congress shall have power to provide for calling forth the militia"--United States Constitution.

Rahatlakhoom

07-23-2005, 09:25 PM

Just how broad in scope is our argument?
Do we want a full repeal on the Automatic weapon ban as well as
access to heavier munitions?

We have to come across as looking very smart and pregnant with an
idea who's time has come. Do we want to eliminate the whole corrupt
Batf, Fda, Epa etc?

It's our government (ha ha), I think we have to have very definitive
goals. I guess we can start with Batf, accusing them of misrepresentation.
Being an obstacle to commerce, and the environment of free trade.
Sporting rifles ARE NOT specified or mentioned in the 2nd amendment.
The right to bear arms specifically infers arms for protection and defense
of country, hence military.

O.S.O.K.

07-23-2005, 09:52 PM

We are working on getting some people to accept leadership roles and will then need people that can help each of those people to move their specific assignments ahead in each specific state. All of these people will need "committee" members who can help them with their tasks.

In example: one can handle communications - press releases, flyers, etc. etc. and we will need people all over who can print some flyers out and take them around their area and get them posted in gun shops, hand them out at gun shows, etc. Another could work on fund-raising and handling dispursments of the funds for needed items/services. Another might handle logistics - getting permits for the demonstration, renting porta-johns and placement of first aid booths, etc. And finally, a general manager who can keep the whole process on-track - a National Chairman with 50 State Chairmen.

The overall goal is to get as many gun laws negated as possible - constitutional reform, focusing on the 2nd Amendment. We will refine this to focus on the best opportunities - basically, we don't want any more laws being created by the BATFE and we want the current ones erased!

The strategy is to organize and implement 1) state capital demonstrations and then 2) implement a Washington DC super-demonstration.

We will need to get a lot of media attention to really achieve this.

We will need a lot a positive, can-do attitudes from the people involved.

We will need a huge number of people willing to take a little time and/or spend a little money to make this happen.

Ready

07-23-2005, 09:59 PM

Can a member that is both well written and computer proficient make a template for a flyer that can be downloaded and printed from the site?

Any volunteers?

O.S.O.K.

07-23-2005, 10:08 PM

Cobalt60

07-23-2005, 10:15 PM

O.S.O.K.

07-23-2005, 10:29 PM

We discussed that and I think it is an excellent rallying point. Keep the input coming folks!

What does everybody else think about Ron Paul's bill for a focus?

CelticDragon1972

07-23-2005, 10:39 PM

21st Century Patriots

Taking Back The Constitution

Operation: Cry For Freedom

We the people of the United States of America, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Operation: Cry For Freedom within the United States of America.

Operation: Cry For Freedom will focus on the Second Amendment:

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

Below are some passages I have found online:

"... A CONSTITUTION INTENDED TO ENDURE FOR AGES TO COME, AND CONSEQUENTLY, TO BE ADAPTED TO THE VARIOUS CRISES OF HUMAN AFFAIRS."
JOHN MARSHALL, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, McCulloch v. Maryland, 1819

http://www.usconstitution.com/BasisoftheAmericanRepublic.htm

With the ongoing, terrorist threats and bombings, wouldn’t it be prudent to allow civilians to be sufficiently armed against these types of threats?

“The U.S. Constitution calls itself the "supreme law of the land." This clause is taken to mean that when state constitutions or laws passed by state legislatures or the national Congress are found to conflict with the federal Constitution, they have no force. Decisions handed down by the Supreme Court over the course of two centuries have confirmed and strengthened this doctrine of constitutional supremacy.”

http://www.usconstitution.com/SupremeLaw.htm

In other words, “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”, should mean what it was intended.

Final authority is vested in the American people, who can change the fundamental law, if they wish, by amending the Constitution or -- in theory, at least -- drafting a new one. The people do not exercise their authority directly, however. They delegate the day-to-day business of government to public officials, both elected and appointed.

http://www.usconstitution.com/SupremeLaw.htm

Here is another reason for contacting your representatives.

Just some more interesting reading material :)

ZooT_aLLures

07-23-2005, 10:45 PM

imanaknut

but DC is another story, they are the most firearm hostile city in the United States of America.
Criminals prefer unarmed victims.......

O.S.O.K.

07-23-2005, 10:47 PM

CelticDragon: you interested in working in Florida? PM me and Prometheus.

I'm getting ahead of the game a bit, but it can't hurt to start gathering interested parties.

Prometheus606

07-23-2005, 10:54 PM

Celtic you seem to be the guy taking the bull by the horns in FL keep up the momentum... OSOK and I have spoken on the phone and are both brainstorming out a stratagy.

Rusty

Scootch

07-23-2005, 11:03 PM

So is this going to be the official thread where we can go to check up on this? I'm in. I like the idea of a fomal letter that we can all put our names to and have it sent via e-mail to every rep. then it can be sent snail to every rep. I'll stuff envelopes and lick em untill I die from glue poisening. One of you smart guys type something up, I know we have to have a lawyer or BS degree among us. Just let us know where the main thread is. I just retired from the Army and I have to tell you after reading this tread it makes me proud to be an American. Lets do it.

Ready

07-23-2005, 11:08 PM

We discussed that and I think it is an excellent rallying point. Keep the input coming folks!

What does everybody else think about Ron Paul's bill for a focus?

If nothing else, it's a foundation. We need a copy of the existing laws and determine which laws exist that are in violation of the constitution and go from there.

Prometheus606

07-23-2005, 11:13 PM

If nothing else, it's a foundation. We need a copy of the existing laws and determine which laws exist that are in violation of the constitution and go from there.

This is were we need a Pro-2nd attorney to back us and DONATE his time to find were these "rules" the the BATFE as made are Unconstitutional....

Rusty

Mountain survivor

07-23-2005, 11:24 PM

I'm in for Virginia.

Ready

07-23-2005, 11:38 PM

This is were we need a Pro-2nd attorney to back us and DONATE his time to find were these "rules" the the BATFE as made are Unconstitutional....

Rusty

Agreed.

slaphappy

07-23-2005, 11:50 PM

We discussed that and I think it is an excellent rallying point. Keep the input coming folks!

What does everybody else think about Ron Paul's bill for a focus?

Yes! And it would be great if we could invite him to speak at the rally!

CelticDragon1972

07-23-2005, 11:57 PM

yeah! that's exaclty what we will need! - but let's hold up just a bit.

First we need the people to get the ball rolling, then we need to clearly define goals and strategies. Shit - we need to figure out the best way of doing this!

Tthis will happen very quickly and we will be asking for all kinds of specific help soon.

OK....I think we all are getting ahead of ourselves here. Let's start by quoting a line from a fav movie of mine:

"Small moves, Ellie. Small moves". - Contact (Jodie Foster)

The very first thing we should do is get a dedicated website or page for this. That way, we can all keep track of ideas better, track movements in each state. Then we can decide on a leader for each state.

Let's start with that and go from there. It's sounds like there are a lot of us that will jump on this thing, but we need to take things one step at a time and not get ahead of ourselves that we lose sight of what we are doing here.

I can help a lot with the website as I have HTML experience and can learn java quickly. Let's set the goal for the site's main page to be up and running by August 31st.

As mentioned before in this thread, we are NOT hippies or students with nothing better to do. WE are a working class with responsibilities and most of us have families to provide for. Time is and will be a limited factor so we need to prioritize our time for this.

So let's get the website started, and get domain name ideas out here first...

I have a couple:

CryForFreedom.org
CryForFreedom.net

21stCenturyPatriots.org
21stCenturyPatriots.net

21stCP.net
21stCP.org

I think the domain name should be kept short, simple, but also get the general idea of what that site is about.

:)

Let's keep those ideas coming... :)

This thread has 1098 views to date :):):):)

Thylacine

07-24-2005, 12:01 AM

The more views the better!

http://www.banzaiinstitute.net/InvisionBoard11/uploads/post-10-1122176395.gif

CelticDragon1972

07-24-2005, 12:49 AM

Guns Network Staff

07-24-2005, 01:30 AM

I will be checking on domains for the website.

I think that 21stCenturyPatriots.com will be the way to go.

If anyone wants to donate to the initial cost of startup for the website, PM me. (total shoudln't me more than $150 for the year.)

Fortune City will be the host, until we can find a better deal elsewhere.

Here are the plan layouts:

Plan Layouts (http://www.fortunecity.com/web-hosting.shtml)

:)

If you are talking hosting a website why not ask Server City who is charge of our servers?!?!?!

I mean before too many here jump the guns. My problem is this is moving way to fast, I mean there are decisions being made before anyone has really had a say and this is why I asked for the weekend before I gave my opinion.

If there is going to be structure to this movement or organization there needs to be a few goal posts put up. It is like you starting in the second quarter of a football game and noone has yet to put out the markers, limed the field, got referees... do you all get my drift....

There needs to be some organization and fore thought into this before drawing up plans on how the website or anything is put together.

You have to build a foundation FIRST before you put up the walls in a building or else the building is not going to stand firm in the long run.

So lets just for now brain storm but that's about it.

CelticDragon1972

07-24-2005, 01:37 AM

:big: Ok, I'll go to sleep now. :big:

Antixx

07-24-2005, 01:46 AM

Not only what GNS said but do you guys realize how hard it is to get umpteen thousand rooms in DC??? I work for Hilton Hotels Corporation in general reservations. My office here in Hazleton PA handles all of the big Hotels we Have in the north east including DC. Once all this is planned out as to how the whole shebang is going to kick off. I suggest you all get the the hotels before you apply for the permits We might need 10,000 rooms or we may need 100,000 rooms. Im telling you guys right now the Capitol Hilton is one of the biggest hotels in the city and it only has about 1100 rooms in it and while there is a lot of hotels they usually dont go over 400 rms a piece. So I have a feeling if everyone wants a hotel rm some of you guys are going to be out in Springfield and largo and Baltimore. and when a convention hits the prices outside of the room blocks sky rocket! When the Smithsonian opened up the Native American museum rooms in DC were going for 500 bucks a night and thats a standard room with no frills.

CelticDragon1972

07-24-2005, 11:07 AM

How about we set up a time and date to meet in the GunsNet chatroom?

Guns Network Flashchat (http://www.gunsnet.net/chat/flashchat.php)

:)

Hunter_of_Gunmen

07-24-2005, 11:23 AM

the blacks can march and have a million man march and noone got injured.......
i think we need a million white man march to dc and voice our opinion peacefully, and with out guns, knifes, and so on(they would love to find a gun or knife or something.. threat to national security.. is what they would say)

we need federal backing.. congressmen, and so on up the ladder. inform them about of problem and set up appointments with officials to start,

we need publicity ( good) publicity from news media, sporting channels, and so on

we need, money to pay off politicians, . all are on the take...

we need and inform others about the right to keep and bear arms....(all types of arms)
use examples of people with not a scratch of misdeamnors or felonies, on their record good law bidding citizens and show society that we are only collectors of our history and not criminals, but sportsmans that enjoy hunting, fishing and shooting, and show concern about criminals, that have the illegal guns, and not the average citizen

a nd so, on,. but we first need to get organize and get the ball roolling cause it is getting to late

we need to vote into office those whom are pro guns
and get funding from large agencies

KalashniKEV

07-24-2005, 11:45 AM

the blacks can march and have a million man march and noone got injured.......
i think we need a million white man march to dc and voice our opinion peacefully, and with out guns, knifes, and so on(they would love to find a gun or knife or something.. threat to national security.. is what they would say)

Gun owners come in more than one color HOG... this is the kind of slip up that would get our agenda smashed by the media...

We need to keep our message focused and not let anyone's racism, homophobia, moralism, cloud the agenda (and don't tell me there's not a lot of that going on here).

We need qualified speakers who can speak intelligently on the issues or you'll see some of our members on the next Michael Moore movie.

In the army, since not everyone is so smart, we have a list of media rules of engagement, or talking points to speak on when interviewed. This also makes the message appear more unified, since everyone echoes each other.

But of course first we would have to make a list of exactly what is being contested... as put forth above.

Freedom and justice for ALL.

Krupski

07-24-2005, 12:35 PM

This is were we need a Pro-2nd attorney to back us and DONATE his time to find were these "rules" the the BATFE as made are Unconstitutional....

Rusty

"Stop ATF BS"... :lool: You lazy asses won't even write letters or join the NRA! :rolleyes:

Roger

--------------------------------
Edited by Guns Network Staff

Just ...SHUT THE FUCK UP KRUPSKI.... GOD DAMN YOU MUST HAVE THE SCHIZOAFFECTIVE DISORDER WHEN YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING.

If all your going to do is STAND ON THE SIDELINES with a thumb up your ass and the opther on your keyboard putting down members who want to try and help the situation at hand then shut the hell up and leave them alone.

...and if all your going to do is critize our members then maybe you need to rethink why you are a member here????

:rant:

Shikkapow

07-24-2005, 02:05 PM

Oh please. EVERY gun law on the books is unconstitutional.

Find all the pro-gun attorneys you like. The case(s) would all end up eventually being presented to the Supreme Court, whereupon they would refuse to hear them. Dead end.

If we have to ASK for and HOPE THAT our rights are "GRANTED" by some judge.... we are already lost.

The legal route is a waste of time. How many decades of being shit upon by the government do we need to see that?

Let the country implode all by itself... it's coming... then have your weapons, ammo and supplies ready to survive the aftermath.

Don't want to wait? Then let's form a million gun owners march and go in heavily armed and demand our rights be recognized (and you chickenshits have to be prepared to take some LOSSES).

Don't want to do that? Well then, drive up to your nearest state police station and peacefully surrender all your weapons. Be sure to say "Thank you officer" when he tosses your property into the dumpster. :rolleyes:

"Stop ATF BS"... :lool: You lazy asses won't even write letters or join the NRA! :rolleyes:

Roger

Well, scratch Krupski off the list of productive Gunsnet members

O.S.O.K.

07-24-2005, 03:14 PM

We have energy - hold onto that - Rusty and I are working on getting a meeting set for this coming weekend to hash-out the base plan. As you can see, the Gunsnet owner is also contributing and working with us, among others.

Again, we are going to need a national "board" and 50 state "boards" of 4 or 5 people to do the work to organize this. Texas looks to have the most people currently involved and also is Ron Paul's home state. Probably the best place to HQ out of - but will also need a state board here.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN ACTING IN A LEADERSHIP ROLL IN YOUR STATE, JUST POST THAT FACT ON THIS THREAD FOR RIGHT NOW - THIS WAY, WE CAN GO BACK AND PM THE INTERESTED PARTIES - THIS IS SOMETHING YOU CAN DO RIGHT NOW - AGAIN, 4 OR 5 PEOPLE IN EVERY STATE TO FORM THAT STATE'S BOARD.

I really like the idea of getting Ron Paul in on this and speaking at the Texas rally - we probably need to make the Texas demonstration the "base" demonstration - maybe we can get big screens rented in each state and "televise" over the internet - with Ron Paul speaking in every rally on the "big screens"!

Just a thought - first things first.

Please be patient with the initial organization - we need a little time to get the foundation built and then, we can get rolling.

IT IS HAPPENINING AS WE WRITE THESE REPLIES - BELIEVE IT!

And Rusty - great point about the lawyer - being a life member of the NRA, I'm sure I can at least get a phone call through to see about an NRA lawyer donating time.

We need our teams in place so we can start doing the specific actions to lead to the rallys...

jman

07-24-2005, 03:15 PM

I like the idea of carrying wooden weapons.
Our government would look pretty stupid if they opened fire on a bunch of citizens carrying wooden toys.
Count me in for support.
I will post links on my web site.
http://www.dragunov.ru/dragunov_smRU2.gif (http://www.dragunov.ru/)

02psd4me

07-24-2005, 03:19 PM

Feed them to the Hogs... :lol:

O.S.O.K.

07-24-2005, 03:21 PM

We have energy - hold onto that - Rusty and I are working on getting a meeting set for this coming weekend to hash-out the base plan. As you can see, the Gunsnet owner is also contributing and working with us, among others.

Again, we are going to need a national "board" and 50 state "boards" of 4 or 5 people to do the work to organize this. Texas looks to have the most people currently involved and also is Ron Paul's home state. Probably the best place to HQ out of - but will also need a state board here.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN ACTING IN A LEADERSHIP ROLL IN YOUR STATE, JUST POST THAT FACT ON THIS THREAD FOR RIGHT NOW - THIS WAY, WE CAN GO BACK AND PM THE INTERESTED PARTIES - THIS IS SOMETHING YOU CAN DO RIGHT NOW - AGAIN, 4 OR 5 PEOPLE IN EVERY STATE TO FORM THAT STATE'S BOARD.
I really like the idea of getting Ron Paul in on this and speaking at the Texas rally - we probably need to make the Texas demonstration the "base" demonstration - maybe we can get big screens rented in each state and "televise" over the internet - with Ron Paul speaking in every rally on the "big screens"!

Just a thought - first things first.

Please be patient with the initial organization - we need a little time to get the foundation built and then, we can get rolling.

IT IS HAPPENINING AS WE WRITE THESE REPLIES - BELIEVE IT!

And Rusty - great point about the lawyer - being a life member of the NRA, I'm sure I can at least get a phone call through to see about an NRA lawyer donating time.

We need our teams in place so we can start doing the specific actions to lead to the rallys...

jman

07-24-2005, 03:40 PM

I can organize New Mexico.

Also, I entered a link to this thread in the news section of my Web Site, But you must be a member to access it. This infomation needs to be moved somewhere to be viewed freely.

Jman
http://www.dragunov.ru/dragunov_smRU2.gif (http://www.dragunov.ru/)

Thylacine

07-24-2005, 03:56 PM

I can organize New Mexico.

Also, I entered a link to this thread in the news section of my Web Site, But you must be a member to access it. This infomation needs to be moved somewhere to be view freely.

Jman

Agreed.

The name Million Gun March needs to be replaced. I beleive that this was tried in 2003, a google search can verify it.

Lysander

07-24-2005, 05:00 PM

I haven't seen anyone step up for Georgia. I'm young enough, and dumb enough, to volunteer I guess. :cupjoe:

klauss

07-24-2005, 05:19 PM

Where is everyone from ohio? come on guy's I know i'm not the only one

Krupski

07-24-2005, 06:13 PM

Well, scratch Krupski off the list of productive Gunsnet members

Nope. Don't write me off. I'll be glad to help - contribute - organize - march - whatever I have to do... as long as it's something that has a chance of WORKING.

Roger

Agreed.

The name Million Gun March needs to be replaced. I beleive that this was tried in 2003, a google search can verify it.

I just looked up some info about the 2003 thing...

I agree with you... the "Million Gun" name doesn't work.

An organized march should seek to correct more wrongs than just 2A infringements.

We need to play the name game. For example, the "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001" is referred to by it's acronym... "U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act of 2001".

What "true American" would be against a "USA Patriot"?

That's how the game is played.

WE need a similar formal name or title which acronyms into a "patriotic" word that "no true American" would oppose.

At the very least, the name should be something like "Million Americans for America" or something like that... no reference to guns at all.

The media would have a feeding frenzy on the word "guns" and, besides, guns are only ONE of the countless problems with our government.

We should hope to repair them all.

Roger

zzdroptop

07-24-2005, 07:51 PM

Good ideas in this thread....lets keep it rolling. In the mean time I will continue to bank on this statement in Mr. krupski's first post.

"let the country implode all by itself... it's coming... then have your weapons, ammo and supplies ready to survive the aftermath."

The danger to this country lies within it not from abroad.

O.S.O.K.

07-24-2005, 08:55 PM

Hey Roger - great to have you on board. Your experience with past demonstrations will be invaluable!

As to the name, we are looking at "21st Century Patriots" with differnet state divisions - but all using the same "logo".

Keep the posts identifying yourself as a leader/volunteer in your state coming -this will help to speed things up considerably.

Also, spread the word! :cupjoe:

slaphappy

07-24-2005, 09:03 PM

I'll volunteer to help, though I don't feel up to leading. (hey, you chiefs need some injuns :) ) I am a Sr. Unix (mostly Linux) Admin by trade, and I can be of help on any server administration and some programming if needed. (I run the servers for some major web sites for a lage media company)

Krupski

07-24-2005, 09:36 PM

Hey Roger - great to have you on board. Your experience with past demonstrations will be invaluable!

As to the name, we are looking at "21st Century Patriots" with differnet state divisions - but all using the same "logo".

Another idea I had was... how about contacting Chris Simcox or Jim Gilchrist (the Minuteman Project)?

They have organizing skills, they have a set of strict rules for the Minutemen volunteers to follow and they already have field experience in dealing with hostile press, demonstrators and other troublemakers.

I think their input would be worth it's weight in gold.

Concerning the "logo"... the "21st. Century Patriots" shield looks striking... but it wouldn't take long for the news media to say "look - it uses the same colors as the nazi flag - red, white and black" (they would ignore the eagle). :rolleyes:

Even small, absurd details like this must be considered (in my opinion).

Roger

MauserMatt

07-24-2005, 09:40 PM

Count me in to help any way I can in getting a march going in Tallahassee!! I know it's been done here before, I'm in for it again!

slaphappy

07-24-2005, 09:40 PM

Good idea about contacting the Minute Men. I had thought of that as well, and I bet a lot of them would be ready and willing to march with us, too.

slaphappy

07-24-2005, 10:45 PM

Several posts so far have mentioned contacting existing groups for help and/or participation. I think that is a GREAT idea, and can help us get some numbers in the streets quickly. How about starting a list of sympathetic groups? I'll start:

Second Amendment Sisters (http://www.2asisters.org/)
Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (http://www.jpfo.org/)
The Pink Pistols (http://www.pinkpistols.com/) (I'm serious. Let's not let other issues cloud our goal)
Gun Owners of America (http://www.gunowners.org/)
Second Amendment Foundaton (http://saf.org)
The NRA (http://nra.org) (not holding my breath, but if there is enough activity, I hope they would make a showing)
Minuteman Project (http://www.minutemanhq.com/)
There's a LOT more. Maybe the Libertarian party as well. This is the tactic that the left has been using with great success recently. They get lots of small, unreated groups together that share some common goals. For instance, the protests in Seatle a few years ago. Groups you would have NEVER seen together normally were out there in the street protesting the World Trade Organization.

jman

07-24-2005, 10:46 PM

Maybe we should get a hold of Michael Caswell over at awbansunset.com
They have been fighting these issues since the beginning. Maybe they would support us on this one, they already have a huge viewers support base.
I think this would get the word out fast.
Jman
http://www.dragunov.ru/dragunov_smRU2.gif (http://www.dragunov.ru/)

Prometheus606

07-24-2005, 11:21 PM

[QUOTE=krupski]"Stop ATF BS"... :lool: You lazy asses won't even write letters or join the NRA! :rolleyes:

Roger

Roger... Let me tell you something, I think you are a highly intelligent person, or you seem to be on this board. That said, don't EVER put me into a group of people who does not act! I write a letter every MONTH to my Rep, Senators, and the Executive branch. I currently Paying my dues to become a Life member of the NRA. I am a member of the Texas State Riflemens Association. I donate hours of my time a week to keep up a range on my land that I allow people to shoot at FREE OF CHARGE. I host a shoot twice a year at NO profit to myself...

I am a Patriot, and I bust my ass trying to keep my freedoms......

Rusty

Mountain survivor

07-25-2005, 01:36 AM

Another group that might be of great help is the VCDL (Virginia Civil Defense League).
VCDL (www.vcdl.org/static/index.html)

9245

07-25-2005, 07:54 AM

I build websites in my spare time, if you need any websites desighned, PM me, and I'll put one togethor....

simian420

07-25-2005, 10:56 AM

I am behind you 100% on this idea. I am in Alaska.

Shaun

Shikkapow

07-25-2005, 12:09 PM

slaphappy

07-25-2005, 01:42 PM

A play on words concerning the patriot act:

Patriots_act

As more details fall into place I'll do what I can to help, but I am going to be unable to do anything between October and Feburary '06, so I will just try to help support everything when and where I can with the VA group.

I do like "Patriots Act!" Nice play on words. Although, I would caution against bringing the actual USA PATRIOT act into the discussion. I've seen a couple of posts that brought it up. I think we need to at least appear to be in favor of "law and order" (well, that's just a good thing to be in favor of if we want to reverse the ban on machineguns) and a lot of the congressmen who's support we need, and are more likely to get, are big supporters of the patriot act. We don't want to appear as radicals, no doubt they will try to paint us a such. Small victories gentlemen. The focus, IMO, should be on Ron Paul's Bill. Getting rid of the "sporting purposes' clause is an atainable goal, I think.

Thylacine

07-25-2005, 02:08 PM

When we get a mission statement that most of us can abide, and a website up and running. We could contact Cam at NRA news dot com. They might be willing to help spread the word..

Edit: We might need a spokesman(Woman) to be available for an interview, just something to think about.

O.S.O.K.

07-25-2005, 02:57 PM

Well, we now have our own forum-ette. A good start and very helpful.

Excellent ideas are being expressed - please keep this up and also please keep indentifying yourself as a volunteer and specific skills indicated are great too!

As far as contacting and working with other groups, this will need to be split-up between the state boards for the more local ones with the national organizations being the responsibility of the national board.

By the way, the national board's primary goal will need to be that of organizing and setting "standards" and guidlines for the state boards to use. This will come with as much input from everyone as possible. No dictitorial stuff here at all, but we will need to make decisions and move ahead, so endless discussion will be impossible.

I am really encouraged by the posts here - please continue to post links at those other organization's web sites. Best to link right to this thread for the time being.

Restoring the two in constitution...

OSOK

tcco

07-25-2005, 03:36 PM

slaphappy

07-25-2005, 03:55 PM

Looking good guys.

Thats what we have to do for our case to stand a chance. For an organized march, we will have to look intelegent, act intelegent, be unarmed, organized and very civil, not to mention have a huge following in attendance.

The leftists bastards just want to portray us as what they call "un-educated idiots", and it does have a strong following with the sheeple of the US.

To combat this we will need a leader that is well spoken and possible highly regarded, that can talk the game of polictical b.s. rhetoric very well.

And please, for the love of God, no fat bastards in camo overalls. That's the only thing that would get on TV. The media will want this to be a bubba fest. Not that there's anything wrong with fat bastards or camo overalls. Which brings up the question, should we have a "uniform"? That is to say, should we all wear 21st Century Patriot t-shirts? If anything, selling a t-shirt would be a good way to raise funds and wearing the t-shirts would help get the word out. It could make us look a little nicer and like a more unified group too.

jman

07-25-2005, 04:25 PM

I've updated the links in the news section of my web site.
Once things get rolling I will do a dedicated page.
Also, I think we need to put together a list of division leads and contact info. for each state.
Is anyone organizing this?
http://www.dragunov.ru/dragunov_smRU2.gif (http://www.dragunov.ru/)

CelticDragon1972

07-25-2005, 04:25 PM

Which brings up the question, should we have a "uniform"? That is to say, should we all wear 21st Century Patriot t-shirts? If anything, selling a t-shirt would be a good way to raise funds and wearing the t-shirts would help get the word out. It could make us look a little nicer and like a more unified group too.

I had the same idea...having our logo printed on t-shirts and selling them to raise money for this.

I started a thread on logo designs. If you have any ideas please post them there.

:)

Shikkapow

07-25-2005, 04:32 PM

I had the same idea...having our logo printed on t-shirts and selling them to raise money for this.

I started a thread on logo designs. If you have any ideas please post them there.

:)

Dunno about the logo, but The t-shirst should only come in three colors :D

Cobalt60

07-25-2005, 04:37 PM

I just realized that I've posted a couple things on this topic but never have volunteered. Email of PM if there's something I can do on state or national level.

Darkmind

07-25-2005, 05:06 PM

The 21st Century Patriots needs a mission statment! I havent seen anyone talk about a mission statment as of yet so I would like to rase my hand to do up a mission statment.

Also I would like add that I have yet seen anybody in this thread from Michigan. So as of right now i'm considering myself the first Michigan member of The 21st Century Patriots.

Also I would like to add that i'm interested in acting in a leadership role for the state of Michigan.

slaphappy

07-25-2005, 05:13 PM

Darkmind

07-25-2005, 05:18 PM

How about this to start a mission statement:

"To restore the second amendment rights of all Americans." http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-1703

Its a good start but we need a full fledged mission statement to sum up the porpoise, goals, reason for being, and so on of the 21st Century Patriots.

I would love to do one up but I would need a day or two for research and typing. Once completed it would be posted in the fourm for review. See where changes need to be made and so on. Whatca guys think.

slaphappy

07-25-2005, 05:21 PM

Sounds great. That's the kind of stuff we need to do right now. It will give us some direction.

Thylacine

07-25-2005, 05:26 PM

Sounds like a plan Darkmind.

Darkmind

07-25-2005, 05:28 PM

Sounds great. That's the kind of stuff we need to do right now. It will give us some direction.

Exactly! Starting to get the word out now is a really good idea but once we get some direction and a base set of info about the 21st Century Patriots it will be easyer to talk to people and get them to understand and so on.

I'm also thinking about doing up a flier for local distribution.

O.S.O.K.

07-25-2005, 07:47 PM

Yes, we do need a mission statement and slaphappy hit the nail.

Darkmind - do work one up!

Darkmind - where are you geographically? Intersted in leadership in your state?

Cobalt - yes you can help man! Stay tuned!

Guys, the first thing is to get leaders identified - we are working on this right now.

Once we do that - we can take responsibility for specific tasks.

We are all going to have to "go with the flow" as a pure democracy is going to be impossible to implement here - would take forever to implement anything. So, leaders, step forward!

We all need to listen and take the best of what is offered and move ahead.

Keep up the positive comments, suggestions, questions!

GunBum

07-25-2005, 09:25 PM

If no one else will volunteer, sign me up for the Oregon Chapter. There must be at least 1 or 2 other 2nd Ammendment lovers out here.

Prometheus606

07-25-2005, 09:34 PM

OSOK,

Got your call but my Phone is dead and I am at work..... Sunday is a possibility (strong one) for me....

I will call you tomorrow....

Rusty

Darkmind

07-25-2005, 11:46 PM

Darkmind - where are you geographically? Intersted in leadership in your state?

I live in Michigan and yes i'm very interested.

OKSO I think we need an official thread in our fourm to state the National and State level leadership. For example

National

Pres - this person
VP - this person

State

Al- This person
Az- This person

What do you think? Start it up as a blank thread and add what ya have and then add on as you get more state reps. O and I think It should be a sticky.

Everyone please read this thread and answer the short questions I have there.

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2254493#post2254493

To provide The 21st Century Patriots with a sound mission statement I need EVERYONES input, ideas, and thoughts so please help.

I also think that the mod for this fourm should be changed to someone whose involved with the 21st CP. Nothing against UGACherokee I just have yet to see him show any interest in the 21st CP.

scotty1911

07-26-2005, 12:11 PM

well i am new here but am willing to help in what ever way i can. i only live about 1 hour from DC so i could make trips down for paper work reasons. also i would not try to do anything on July 4 it would get denied due to the fireworks.

I also think we should be defending other parts of the bill of rights, the US government is also going after the rights of journalists, they are trying to force them to give up their sources. by also using the defense of the other parts of the bill of rights we could get the media behind this as well, and getting their involvement would add power to the movement. just think what good advertizement would do for us.

scott

ps i have been a lurker who just joined so i can be part of this

slaphappy

07-26-2005, 01:32 PM

I also think we should be defending other parts of the bill of rights, the US government is also going after the rights of journalists, they are trying to force them to give up their sources. by also using the defense of the other parts of the bill of rights we could get the media behind this as well, and getting their involvement would add power to the movement. just think what good advertizement would do for us.

scott

ps i have been a lurker who just joined so i can be part of this

Good to have you on board! I'd like to caution against expanding our purpose beyond gun rights. That's one thing that all of us here can agree on and stand united. Taking a stance on other issues could drive some people away. For instance, you brought up the govenrnment forcing the journalists to identify their sources. I belive that journalists are ordinary citizens and should have to testify like the rest of us. And I work for a media company. Taking your stance on that issue would deter me from being a part of this, and taking my stance many deter your participation. Let's let other groups fight about that stuff, and if they happen to agree with us on the 2nd, they can join us at the rallies.

Krupski

07-26-2005, 02:45 PM

Taking a stance on other issues could drive some people away. For instance, you brought up the govenrnment forcing the journalists to identify their sources. I belive that journalists are ordinary citizens and should have to testify like the rest of us.

Doctors are "ordinary citizens" also. Should they be able to be ordered to divulge personal, private patient data?

On a different note... should we even be discussing / thinking / organizing right out in the open?

Imagine if WE ALL could read Sarah Brady's private email plans for her next rally or proposed ban?

Think about that!

Roger

slaphappy

07-26-2005, 03:17 PM

Doctors are "ordinary citizens" also. Should they be able to be ordered to divulge personal, private patient data?

Thank you for proving my point. ;) We don't need distractions like this kind of argument.

jman

07-26-2005, 03:23 PM

Gunbum
I have you down for the Oregon chapter lead.
Thats only 3 states, were going to need a lot more than that to be heard!
Come on guy's and gal's follow this thread to checkin as a leader of your state.
State by State Leader Volunteers (Check in) (http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=248904)

Jman

http://www.dragunov.ru/dragunov_smRU2.gif (http://www.dragunov.ru/)

scotty1911

07-26-2005, 06:33 PM

i might not be liked here very long

Good to have you on board! I'd like to caution against expanding our purpose beyond gun rights. That's one thing that all of us here can agree on and stand united. Taking a stance on other issues could drive some people away. For instance, you brought up the govenrnment forcing the journalists to identify their sources. I belive that journalists are ordinary citizens and should have to testify like the rest of us. And I work for a media company. Taking your stance on that issue would deter me from being a part of this, and taking my stance many deter your participation. Let's let other groups fight about that stuff, and if they happen to agree with us on the 2nd, they can join us at the rallies.

your right, why defend the entire bill of rights... they were only passed as one. If we only stand for the 2nd amendment we will get labeled as gun nuts, nuts that want everone to have guns, etc. if we are partiots of the constitution ( not the name but the idea ) the we must stand for the whole thing. Slap happy if you were not willing to fight for your guns rights just because the group you were part of believed that the media could say that not naming their sources is a first amendment right then you might be part of the problem ( i am not saying you are keep reading ).

the founders were against all control that they did not have a say in, they did not just say no tea taxes but go ahead and tax paper, they did not say feel free to just force us to feed your soilders but lets us complain about it. they said no to it all. somebody a few pages back said the NRA may not help us due to they were intersted in hunting land, they may not worry about the gun laws. i see all of it OUR rights.

part of the whole problem is there are too many people who will not stand up for anything else just what they want. the media complains that they are being forced to go against what they believe in, the churches complains that they cant say and do what they want, but none of them come to defend the whole bill of rights. the PEOPLE of this land need to take there rights back in general.

i am not saying doing something about the BATF abuses is wrong but we need to unite and fight for all of OUR rights, BATF abuses, the courts making laws, ALL of it

the more people saying NO the more the government will listen

i am here for the atf abuses being changed, but it all boils down to OUR rights

scott

slaphappy

07-26-2005, 07:11 PM

i might not be liked here very long

your right, why defend the entire bill of rights... they were only passed as one. If we only stand for the 2nd amendment we will get labeled as gun nuts, nuts that want everone to have guns, etc. if we are partiots of the constitution ( not the name but the idea ) the we must stand for the whole thing. Slap happy if you were not willing to fight for your guns rights just because the group you were part of believed that the media could say that not naming their sources is a first amendment right then you might be part of the problem ( i am not saying you are keep reading ).

the founders were against all control that they did not have a say in, they did not just say no tea taxes but go ahead and tax paper, they did not say feel free to just force us to feed your soilders but lets us complain about it. they said no to it all. somebody a few pages back said the NRA may not help us due to they were intersted in hunting land, they may not worry about the gun laws. i see all of it OUR rights.

part of the whole problem is there are too many people who will not stand up for anything else just what they want. the media complains that they are being forced to go against what they believe in, the churches complains that they cant say and do what they want, but none of them come to defend the whole bill of rights. the PEOPLE of this land need to take there rights back in general.

i am not saying doing something about the BATF abuses is wrong but we need to unite and fight for all of OUR rights, BATF abuses, the courts making laws, ALL of it

the more people saying NO the more the government will listen

i am here for the atf abuses being changed, but it all boils down to OUR rights

scott

Hey, I appreciate what you are saying. I really do. But take this for instance: If the ACLU decided all of the sudden to support the second amendment, I sure as hell wouldn't be joining the ACLU. Why? Well, even though I support the first amendment, and the ACLU (claims to) support the first amendment, the devil is in the details. I find their misguided defense of the first amendment detestable, and they would probably feel the same way about me. However, if an ACLU member decides to branch out a bit and join our cause without leaving theirs, I would welcome them with open arms and they should, IMO, feel welcomed. This is only possible, IMHO, if we leave other issues to the myriad of other groups that can fill those needs.

dpanc60

07-26-2005, 07:27 PM

I think this is a great idea. Starting off with numbers at our state capitals is perfect.

Once a website is up and functional, then I will start spreading it around all of the local AZ forums and all of the local band websites down here. We definately need a strong showing in places like Cali, where the media attention will be much larger. If all of us only show up at states like Az, Montana, Georgia, etc... it will look like a redneck jamboree, no insult intended since I am lumped into that AZ group, we just need every state we can to join in.

IJ
good points,
i remember in jersey they had a march/demo in trenton,it got publicity for a day or 2 but of coarse the commies running things still got there awb(still in affect)so in princible,i agree with starting small,thinking big..and i will join in of coarse in any capacity needed.
the problem in jersey(and cali)probably is the many,many non gun owners that are terrified of guns(really crimminals)but the commies in charge have them brainwashed that guns=crimminals...or guns=redneck toothless neanderthals.
maybe if things got rolling,take out ads targeted to these misguided people,rather then preaching to the choir.
take out ads in the new yorker or gq or even cosmo.these are the people the government listens too...they are a larger group then us,getting converts from there side is imho a prerequisite for success with furthering our goals.
someone earlier said..we need a very catchy name to get there attention.i agree,maybe hire a marketing firm or do we have marketing majors here..i know there are some out there.we all are not hillbillies.

Guns Network Staff

07-26-2005, 07:32 PM

I also think that the mod for this fourm should be changed to someone whose involved with the 21st CP. Nothing against UGACherokee I just have yet to see him show any interest in the 21st CP.

OK before some of you all STEP ON YOUR DICKS and point fingers... good grief... understand that some of my staff are on vacation (hello wall) of sorts and just so happens UGACherokee is doing such and taking a break due to his schooling. Since Darkmind is acting like a newbie ;) and doesn't know who UGACherokee is, let me say UGACherokee has more experience in the 2nd amendment arena then ALL of us put together. He is going to law school right now and working towards his Juris Doctorate and specializing in the 2nd Amendment, yes that is right the 2nd amendment and Gun Rights. So before you jump the gun you may want to do a search on his posts in regards to this forum and you will see he is extremely very well spoken and would be a major person we could use on OUR SIDE of things.

I am sure once UGACherokee gets back soon he will help out and give us some pointers as well.

:D

Ready

07-26-2005, 07:34 PM

Doctors are "ordinary citizens" also. Should they be able to be ordered to divulge personal, private patient data?

On a different note... should we even be discussing / thinking / organizing right out in the open?

Imagine if WE ALL could read Sarah Brady's private email plans for her next rally or proposed ban?

Think about that!

Roger

You just stated what I've been thinking since this thread started, I wonder who else is watching.

CelticDragon1972

07-26-2005, 07:39 PM

You just stated what I've been thinking since this thread started, I wonder who else is watching.

We are just exercising our 1st Amendment, while at the same time, we are discussing our 2nd Amendment.

Nothing wrong as far as I can tell. Unless the ENTIRE Bill Of Rights has been revoked, we can do and say what we please (within reason).

:)

dpanc60

07-26-2005, 07:57 PM

I have no HTML skills at all, but maybe I could talk to a few folks I know who do.

Also, there are thousands of other ways to get our word out. Things like MySpace.com, etc are the wave of the future. This is the 21st century, we should begin acting like it.
good point also,
i am a member of nation states,and they have a general discussion board.there are alot of left wing euros on it,but i have seen many well written arguments by..oh my god...american students..arguing the 2nd to some of these homegrown lefties and the more brainwashed foreign student contemporaries.
it is mostly an international site that lets you create your own country and develope it as you see fit.but there are discussion boards with thousands of subscribers.i always do my best when i see antigun threads to be literate and respectful to those opposing my view,yet keep gently pointing them towards facts that contradict there arguments.

i agree,we need sometype of patriot central to disseminate facts as ammo for our arguments,to coordinate ad campaigns,to coordinate marches,and keep all the state branches up to date and on the same page.
i for one am in,i will do whatever is neccassary for the cause..if it is just making flyers,so be it.

i am sorry to say i am basically computer stupid..i can type and click basically or i would set up a new jersey site.
maybe the patriot central site could develope a templet that is consistant for all branches and is proffessional appearing.

This is great!

CelticDragon - I really like this:
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//3242/2420921st-med.JPG

I have seen some excellent ideas:

State Chapters with consolidated logo - this breeds unity of purpose - how about mission statement or slogan too? Ideas? T-shirts - unity and revenue.

Web Site or special Forum dedicated to this.

Paypal account set-up for donations ( I will pledge $50 right now - we will need funds.

This will happen! It only took 24% of the population of colonial America to start a revolution that lead to the creation of the USA. And the 24% were only lead by a very few.

Some further thoughts:

We need to focus on the initial organization goals - getting the state chapters in place and developing coordinated strategies - with a timeline - project management is what I'm speaking of here. We need to apply standard business practices to acheive our goals.

Initial goal ideas:

1) Recruit leaders in each state to for chapters. Probably need to fill "posititions" or "offices" in each state -general manager, communications manager, logistics mgr. and funding mgr. with normal controls like multiple signatures to write checks and for decisions to be made. Regular meeting times set. This can just be chat sessions on this board!
2) Agree on short term and long term goals. Long term would be full restoration of 2nd amendment rights - right? Short term goals are like what I'm listing here - steps towards the long term or overall goal.
3) Establish the tools needed to reach the goals - like the web site and fund raising.
4) Agree on the merchandising tools needed - the logos, the slogan, etc. to provide a clear, common message that will be comunicated in each state via press releases, flyers (at gun shops, gun shows, hunting expos, etc.).
5) At some point, we should probably have a meeting of the leaders - face to face or via video conferencing at Kinko's or just scheduled chat sessions on this board to minimize cost. Maybe we need to do this right after the state leaders are established?

Guys, if we get the leadership in place, goals established and tools procured, then we will do this. This is how its done.

I can't stress this enough - we have the desire, the talent and motivation - now we need the structure or "machine" in place to make it reality.

Like my title says: I AM PUMPPED. :cupjoe:
amen...you are absolutely correct on your assessment.

i too am pumped

Ready

07-26-2005, 08:30 PM

We are just exercising our 1st Amendment, while at the same time, we are discussing our 2nd Amendment.

Nothing wrong as far as I can tell. Unless the ENTIRE Bill Of Rights has been revoked, we can do and say what we please (within reason).

:)

If me and krupski are on the same page, we weren't referring to us doing something wrong, just giving those that would wish failure on us a lot of info. I wouldn't be suprised if we started seeing hackers and other types of sabotage, either.

Krupski

07-26-2005, 08:33 PM

We are just exercising our 1st Amendment, while at the same time, we are discussing our 2nd Amendment.

Nothing wrong as far as I can tell. Unless the ENTIRE Bill Of Rights has been revoked, we can do and say what we please (within reason).

:)

I'm not saying that any of this talk is illegal... of course it protected free speech!

What I am saying is... there is no reason to give "the enemy" a heads up as to what is being planned.

Roger

(edit): READY, it looks like we were both typing at the same time! :D

slaphappy

07-26-2005, 08:41 PM

I think for now this is fine. It allows anyone and everyone to come by and drop in. No grand schemes have been developed...yet. Besides, we WANT the enemy to start jumping up and down with anger. It would give us publicity. In the media, they say "pub is pub", or "there is no such thing as bad publicity". That's not 100% true, but it's close. I would love to have the Brady Bunch, Rosie, and MoveOn.org start bashing us. It would only convince others like us that we are doing something worthwhile.

dpanc60

07-26-2005, 08:56 PM

I haven't seen anyone step up for Georgia. I'm young enough, and dumb enough, to volunteer I guess. :cupjoe:
i'll step up for new jersey and pennsy.

i will do anything i can to help/contribute

O.S.O.K.

07-26-2005, 09:21 PM

OK before some of you all STEP ON YOUR DICKS and point fingers... good grief... understand that some of my staff are on vacation (hello wall) of sorts and just so happens UGACherokee is doing such and taking a break due to his schooling. Since Darkmind is acting like a newbie ;) and doesn't know who UGACherokee is, let me say UGACherokee has more experience in the 2nd amendment arena then ALL of us put together. He is going to law school right now and working towards his Juris Doctorate and specializing in the 2nd Amendment, yes that is right the 2nd amendment and Gun Rights. So before you jump the gun you may want to do a search on his posts in regards to this forum and you will see he is extremely very well spoken and would be a major person we could use on OUR SIDE of things.

I am sure once UGACherokee gets back soon he will help out and give us some pointers as well.

:D

Great! Can you please see if he would act as our Legal Director? That would be three people for TX - unless you too are planning to take a specific role.... like Communications Director? :cupjoe:

scotty1911

07-27-2005, 12:21 AM

well i guess i can kind of start the maryland group, until some one else with more experance and qualifications can take over

but due to my being new here i would step down as soon as someone better comes along

Guns Network Staff

07-27-2005, 12:22 AM

Sorry I am spread way to thin in my life right now and with a baby on the way, lol ain't going to happen. I will help support and give busienss advice as far as 501(c)(3) IF the organization becomes a Texas non-profit.

I will help as best as I can.

TylerGunNut

07-27-2005, 12:26 AM

There was a move to remove the "sporting purpose clause from the 1968 GCA" What ever happened?
TGN

slaphappy

07-27-2005, 08:32 AM

There was a move to remove the "sporting purpose clause from the 1968 GCA" What ever happened?
TGN

Like most bills in Congress, it was DOA. That's why we are here now!

CelticDragon1972

07-27-2005, 05:48 PM

From the proposed S 397 bill:

(2) To preserve a citizen's access to a supply of firearms and ammunition for all lawful purposes, including hunting, self-defense, collecting, and competitive or recreational shooting.

This will really help. :)

slaphappy

07-27-2005, 06:07 PM

From the proposed S 397 bill:

This will really help. :)

If only that's really what it did. It only preserves the status quo. That section is only under the "purpose" section of the bill. If only they had elaborated on that and put it in the right part of the bill...

Ragin Cajun

07-28-2005, 07:48 PM

hey folks. first time posting here. I just want to say that if this DOES come full circle, you can count me in. This 21st Century Patriots thread is what brought me to gunsnet.net. I'm getting sick and tired of people saying that our forefathers were talking only the arms for hunting will be protected. It says 'shall not be infringed," NOT "Shall not be infringed if they're only for sporting purposes." The entire reason for 2a is to protect our home shores against invasion AND to keep our own government in check. IMHO, If the guvmint thought that the average american had the brass to stand up for their rights, the government would not act the way they do. It is PAST time to stand up for what we believe in, fellow Patriots. Let me know what I can do to help, and I will do it.

P.S. Might I suggest using the Gadsden battle flag as an emblem?

The Cajun

slaphappy

07-28-2005, 07:54 PM

Glad to have you on board Ragin Cajun!

Got-Kalashnikov?

07-28-2005, 08:05 PM

Cajun and I will be working on this together in our area. Add one more to the ranks.

Ragin Cajun

07-28-2005, 08:36 PM

Kalashnikov and I have begun spreading the word to other forums. We're meeting with fair resistance, but the common good will prevail. Stand United, Patriots. You are not alone.

The Cajun

slaphappy

07-28-2005, 08:45 PM

Excellent! We're waiting to hear back on a couple of things right now, so don't be discouraged if things are slowing down discussion wise right now. That, and we all have a job or two. Even still, I think we are very commited, or may be we should be commited :losingit:

Ragin Cajun

07-28-2005, 09:17 PM

glad to hear it, Slaphappy. Like I said, we're spreading the word to other forums about this. We need maximum exposure if this is to succeed. We're behind you guys all the way. We've got two Kentucky members on board, we can get quite a few more if this begins to show promise. Let us know what we can do. I'm a student at Eastern Kentucky University; i'm sure that I could drum up lots of support for this if needed. Just let me know when it's time to act. I'm an excellent public speaker; this would not be my first foray into politics. Stand tall, Patriots.

The Cajun

cabinboy

07-29-2005, 07:01 PM

Let me see if I am clear on the situation:

1) What is being discussed is a peaceful march of law-abiding gunowners from all 50 states in Washington DC on 7/4/06.

2) The primary message is "The Second Amendment means what it says -- what part of 'shall not be infringed' don't you understand?"

3) The secondary message is "Politicians who agree with us are our friends, and we will help you. Politicians who don't agree with us are our enemies, and we will work against you using all legal tools at our disposal."

4) The tactical goal is to have as many 2A supporters as we possibly can gather for this "Patriots Act!" demonstration.

5) The strategic objectives are to
a) support our friends in Congress
b) demonstrate our unity and numbers to our enemies
c) lay the groundwork for gun control roll-back in 2006 forward

6) The ultimate objectives are:
a) removal of enforcement jurisdiction from BATFE
b) repeal of GCA68
c) federally-guaranteed unrestricted transport/possession of all firearms in all states/US territories
d) federally-guaranteed concealed-carry in all states/US territories
e) repeal of NFA34
f) revocation of all Executive Orders in violation of 2A

Let me know if this captures the plan to date.

Cabinboy
Revolutionary War Veterans Association

slaphappy

07-29-2005, 07:43 PM

Well, those are at least some really good ideas! It's still in the very early stages of this and I'm sure we will have to scale it down initially to a few simple goals. It's been stated before that we don't necessarily want to create another NRA, and this organization should perhaps be temporary and disband after our goals have been reached. That may simply be the national demonstration (again, we still haven't nailed down what our goals are just yet.) One of MY reasons for backing this is that we are going to give gun rights advocates a face. The left is always saying that it's the "gun lobby" or the NRA or "special interests" that are trying to fight for gun rights, and they are "out of the mainstream". The public never sees a face to our cause, and a lot of people buy into the BS. Also, with a demonstration and media attention, we can get people talking about the issues Congress so far has not dealt with. Sporting clauses, import bans, BATFE rulings effectively becoming law, and other unconstitutional restrictions. So maybe that gives you an idea of what "I" see this effort as. If that sounds good to you, welcome aboard!

cabinboy

07-29-2005, 08:04 PM

1-4 I think should be pretty easy to agree with (I hope). I hope we can avoid getting bogged down in 5-6 that the march doesn't happen. I'll kick it with my folks, but I'm in.

xWEHRMACHTx

07-29-2005, 10:10 PM

i found this from a link Got-Kalashnikov posted at SKSboards and i have been posting it at the forums i visit

CelticDragon1972

07-29-2005, 11:02 PM

Cobalt60

07-30-2005, 10:09 AM

i found this from a link Got-Kalashnikov posted at SKSboards and i have been posting it at the forums i visit

Welcome to Guns Net and thanks for spreading the word!

Berszerk

07-30-2005, 06:56 PM

I frequent this site but found out about this from another forum/web site. I think better communication within will be beneficial since were all here in most part for to enjoy our 2nd rights.BTW, Im up for it here North of Houston. If it hasnt been done a post on all our forumns will help out, maybey the staff will send one to everybody

Ragin Cajun

07-30-2005, 07:54 PM

I disagree with Slaphappy's idea that we should disband after our goals have been accomplished. In order to keep enforcing our 2nd Amendment rights, we need to keep membership as active as possible. Granted, we can slip into dormancy once we've ensured that our rights have been defended and the asinine gun laws have been repealed...but we need to be ready to re-deploy (for lack of a better term) if they are ever trampled upon again.

The Cajun

CelticDragon1972

07-30-2005, 08:43 PM

ColtCarbine

07-30-2005, 10:09 PM

Yes, the BS talk would have to go. I think if an alert got sent out to each discussion board, it might work (a truce to reach a common goal?), but we would need knowledgable leadership right off the bat to keep interest up.

thats all i got
:up: ColtCarbine checking in. I heard about this from somebody on another board. I live in Oregon, so have who ever is organizing my home state have them drop me a line. I hope the boards can drop the BS and call a truce also, how can we reach a common goal if we can't get along.

Whoever made it posssible for me to post here thank you because I was not able to earlier today.

Thanks in advance!

CelticDragon1972

07-30-2005, 10:20 PM

:up: ColtCarbine (Admin) from WarRifles checking in. I heard about this from somebody posting there. I live in Oregon, so have who ever is organizing my home state have them drop me a line. I hope the boards can drop the BS and call a truce also, how can we reach a common goal if we can't get along.

Whoever made it posssible for me to post here thank you because I was not able to earlier today.

Thanks in advance!

Welcome aboard. Although things seem to have slowed some, it has not. The ball is rolling on this one.

There have been lots of ideas and possibilities that we are just working out right now. So, keep in touch with this forum and post often with any ideas or suggestions.

:)

wenbar

07-30-2005, 10:38 PM

Count me in and I'll donate for website---100% great idea here--I am in Wisconsin.

OLDBEAR

07-30-2005, 11:03 PM

Okay, can we members get an update on how many states have a leader group? And how many members total? Do we have a database with everyone listed so as to send out flyers, notices, and emails? 21st Century Patriot.

Ragin Cajun

07-30-2005, 11:13 PM

Well, I volunteered and got seconded for the Kentucky chapter. I fall a few months behind the required age, though. I've got no idea who is leading the Kentucky chapter..I'd love to do it, though.

jman

07-31-2005, 05:29 AM

Ragin Cajun
And any one else which wants to volunteer for State Lead.

See "POLL" Min. Requirements for State Leadership (http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=249417)

And check in at State by State Leader Volunteers (Check in) (http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=248904)

I'm constructing a map, but I need more people to fill it up.

Jman

http://www.dragunov.ru/dragunov_smRU2.gif

cabinboy

08-04-2005, 01:32 AM

Any way to make this section more accessible to outsiders? I knew about it and had trouble finding it.....maybe the mods can put this thread on the first page, rather than the predecessor (i.e., the original thread that got transferred to this forum).

WoLvErInE03

08-04-2005, 02:35 PM

After reading this I am interested. What exactly would happen though and how are we going to do it.. It seems like such a good idea but if we go in with no guns and they open up fire what would happen? We would all have to fall without fighting. I think we should organize this group very well and keep it so active and have people go around trying to "recruit" people into the group that believe the same as us. I think a peaceful march is the best idea but will the government allow it to be peaceful? Maybe someone can start up a nice website and paypal account for anybody to donate in to help this happen. I am sure if everyone pitches in $10 with a 1000 members we can get 10 thousand dollars to help make this happen. We can have websites and maybe even get it broadcast on some television comercials? I know this is making it sound big but if it happens it would be HUGE! .. I am still trying to figure this out but I am trying to spread on the word.... Wolvy

mortis

08-04-2005, 04:11 PM

sorry if this was mentioned previously, but I didn't have a chance to read this entire thread. We need to know almost exact numbers that will attend so we don't look weak and stupid. We really need to know who WILL be there. If guys are just saying they will march and don't show, we are doomed...

Count me in, I will take off work and be ready to go, just say the word.

Mortis...

bhuffmansr

08-04-2005, 05:56 PM

This whole thing has me so excited, I can barely stand it! I am so happy and proud to be here " as it happens". I am sure we are seeing history in the making. I am sure ready to do my part ( telephoning, posting bills, writing letters, emails - whatever) to get this to happen. I think it is vital we remember a few things;
1. We are under scrutiny , right now - posturing, etc can only hurt us.
2. Merchandising is a LARGE part of this effort. We need a logo that is non offensive, and appeals to all ages.
3. Keep the cause simple, no 'add ons'.
4. We need not discriminate by age, youngsters have a stake in this, too!Ladies and Gentlemen, I am proud already. It can only get better! Leaders, polls are a great way for us to express ideas and support -
Thanks, Gunsnet!

Hostile

08-19-2005, 10:00 PM

I'm there. Lemme know exactly when and where. Neal Boortz might be a good guy to get in on this.

Seacowboys

08-27-2005, 09:39 AM

Good morning to all,
Many of you, I recognize from other boards and forums and my outspoken attitudes will not come as a surprise. I think it is about time we got off our ass and actually did something besides whinning and sending a few letters.
THe one thing that isn't being taken into account, is the strength of a man isn't limited to his abilities alone, but rather, his sphere of influence.
I see a lot of debate on other boards, that this will go no-where...it will just bog down and that it would be a better idea to add our efforts to the NRA or GOA to make them a bit more pro-active...bullshit.
The NRA and GOA should be supporting us! It is time we demanded our rights. We have been brain-washed into believing the Bill of Rights was a gift from our government to us, rather than a notice from us to them that if they infringed upon our freedoms, we would have the means, ability, and motivation to throw them out on their ass, just like we did King George.
The second ammendment is accademic at this point...we can't fight stealth bombers and tanks with sporting rifles. What is at risk is our Republic.
I have a sphere of influence that contributes financially and physically to our cause and I want to extend the use to you for this cause. Please do not hesitate to email me and let's get some useful dialogue going here.

wallew

09-08-2005, 12:03 AM

I wish this effort all the luck in the world. With over eighty million members of the gun culture currently owning over three hundred million firearms, I personally doubt that a 'round up' of all firearms could be accomplished without starting the second revolutionary war. If ninety percent 'turned in' or 'buried' their weapons that means that approximately eight million people would be 'armed to the teeth' to confront what ever was put forth.

The scary part is the US has already worked out an arrangement that the UN provide logisical and tactical support via the Hong Kong PD (read Red Chinese Army). Of course, once the 'balloon goes up' as it were, about two thirds of all Spec Op warriors will go over the fence, carrying everything NOT nailed down. And they are trained for one purpose. To insurrect unfriendly governments.

So, hopefully it never comes to this. But do remember that those who do not study history have a tendency to repeat it. If you have not read "Unintended Consequences" yet, now is the time.

Again, I wish this effort great luck. We will ALL need it.

coyote1911

09-10-2005, 01:43 PM

Just throwing in my support. I will march when the time comes. Also, we have to get the women and young people involved. We don't want to look like a bunch of middleaged white guys.

imanaknut

09-10-2005, 02:43 PM

The scary part is the US has already worked out an arrangement that the UN provide logisical and tactical support via the Hong Kong PD (read Red Chinese Army). Of course, once the 'balloon goes up' as it were, about two thirds of all Spec Op warriors will go over the fence, carrying everything NOT nailed down. And they are trained for one purpose. To insurrect unfriendly governments.

So, hopefully it never comes to this. But do remember that those who do not study history have a tendency to repeat it. If you have not read "Unintended Consequences" yet, now is the time.

Again, I wish this effort great luck. We will ALL need it.

Like I have said a zillion times before, can anyone show me where all these "troups" that the UN supposedly has are hiding? And how will they get here?

wallew

09-11-2005, 04:56 PM

RIGHT NOW? The HKPD is now an arm of the Chinese Army. You do know where THEY are housed, RIGHT? IN CHINA, RIGHT?

So, one semi quick airplane ride and there could be several divisions of the Chinese Army's version of our quick response brigade (Stryker brigades) on the ground all over the US.

Just like we have done in Bosnia, Afghanistan, IRAQ (twice in the past fifteen years), etc.

So, all it would take is a US PRESIDENT going to the UN, requesting 'back up' because all of our troops are overseas enforcing weapons confiscation in OTHER COUNTRIES. Besides, how many US TROOPS would voluntarily disarm US CITIZENS?

So, how many Chinese Army soldiers would hesitate? Especially if the request came from the White House via the UN? NONE, that's how many would hesitate to kick down your (or my) door to do a house to house search. Everybody says it won't happen here. Kind of what the Bathists said in Sadaams Iraq, eh?

Yet there we are (US Military) kicking in doors and confiscating weapons.

Can't happen here?

When was the LAST TIME the Mexican Army came on to US shores? Not since we granted statehood to the Southwestern US. Yet they are now in Louisiana as I type this.

THE MEXICAN ARMY!!! Like we NEED their help! After all, they will be able to relate to the citizens of NO way better than our own National Guard.

Yeah, right. Put Hillary in the Oval office and you might be surprised at what could/would happen...

Seacowboys

10-02-2005, 07:29 PM

Just what I had figured...bunch a old white guys grumbling with no actual intent to do a damned thing.

ubersoldate

10-02-2005, 08:04 PM

Like I have said a zillion times before, can anyone show me where all these "troups" that the UN supposedly has are hiding? And how will they get here?
Jeeez Imanaknut, :rolleyes:

First they build a giant wooden horse,
Then they offer it to George Bush as a present, then we we are all sleeping they jump out and let all their french buddies at the UN in!

We will wake up tommorrow in a sea of blue helmets!
:lool: :lool: :lool:

imanaknut

10-02-2005, 08:30 PM

Jeeez Imanaknut, :rolleyes:

First they build a giant wooden horse,
Then they offer it to George Bush as a present, then we we are all sleeping they jump out and let all their french buddies at the UN in!

We will wake up tommorrow in a sea of blue helmets!
:lool: :lool: :lool:

:funnypost They shoot horses don't they?

About the Chinese. They need us more than we need them. Their gov't knows darn well that we are financing their whole economy, without us, who would they sell all their stuff to? And assuming that they tried to put all their zillion troops into aircraft and flew them here, have you yet to see a plane that held a couple of thousand troups? When we sent our troups to the middle east it took several months to get troup strength up to a level that could be affective. If the Chinese tried to bring even one plane in, with the level of firearm ownership in this country, they would never survive 10 miles from their landing site.

Now, how about getting back to the topic of this thread, it never ceases to amaze me how quickly threads on this and other sites get lost way off topic. The topic, how do we stop ATF from the continued infringement on our second amendment rights. They were started off as a tax collection agency, only congress can make laws, per the constitution of this great country, so we need to remind them what: "shall not be infringed" means, and it has nothing to do with sporting purposes, unless you list picking off traitors as sporting. Hmmmmm, not a bad idea.

Shikkapow

10-03-2005, 04:39 PM

Just what I had figured...bunch a old white guys grumbling with no actual intent to do a damned thing.

Have you offered any help, or just grumbled?

I would like to do what I can, but I am going to be gone for the next four months, and thats why I can't volunteer any help right now.. If you have any suggestions or comments or ideas, contact O.S.O.K. here on the boards, he is drumming up support

bhuffmansr

10-05-2005, 07:56 PM

Gentlemen, What this board ( or any other board ) really dosen't need is a pissing and moaning crew. I have high hopes for this movement. I have posted on several other boards, and a couple of yahoo groups I belong to. In hopes of helping this movement to grow, I have entered into several discussions - both on the net and off - with others who have expressed interest. Not much for now? Well , no, but it IS something, and it is something constructive. Didn't spend a penny (yet) doing this, just giving a damn and trying to help. If you have this much "gumption' in you, then we NEED your help! Let's just teach this baby to walk on it's own before we start fighting over what color roller skates to get.... It takes damn little talent or intellect to criticize, show what you're made of by stepping out and exposing yourself to possible criticism. This is how men behave. Thanks.
:rant: