why do 03's cost so much more ....

[JES AR15]

... than other similar rifles of that era ?

[srv656sxx]

because we won....

All the other rifles were free

;)

Shawn

[Schuetzenman]

Well there is something to what Shawn said but that's not all of it.

First yes WE made them. Second reason is probably because so many of them got sold off as surplus and sporterized back in the 50's and 60's.

Occassionally one can find an old catalogue from some old surplus company. Back in the 50's and 60's these rifles were going for about $20 bucks and were plentiful.

Today, they are not so plentiful and trying to find them in VG to Excellent condition is quite hard to do.

Another reason is that interest in collection is very high on these items. 6 years ago a good 03 or 03A3 could have been had for $350 to $400. Now the same condition rifles are going for $550 up to $700 in some cases. Interest in collecting has pushed these up.

That's the neat thing about Mosin Nagant rifles. Interest hasn't been that good until just the last 2 years possibly. Still plenty of them at sub $170 dollar prices. 5 years from now? Could be the same but I'm thinking that they will creap up in price. Ultimatley the availability of them will set this. If they continue to be plentiful the price will stay down. If they dry up they will go up.

[Treadhead]

Originally posted by Schuetzenman
First yes WE made them. Second reason is probably because so many of them got sold off as surplus and sporterized back in the 50's and 60's.


That's what I'm thinkin'. I bought an old (early '60's) Williams catalog at a show a couple of years ago and it was just FULL of "Horrible" stuff You could do with some of them old guns! LOL!

What's interestin' is, if You find one of the rifles that WAS "Sporterized" back then, They're down around $150-$200.

I guess when you COULD pick them up for a sawbuck it was no big deal but, did ya have to do so many!:D

BTW, I liked Shawns explanation too! LOL!

[neilwest]

1. Original unsporterized 1903's are getting hard to find. Those you do find are parts rifles not many parts matching. Mine has matching numbers and is original. Above 700.00 dollars but well worth it to me. My dad carried one in WWII and he told me many stories of their accuracy. It took me a year to find the right one.

[Bobcat]

neilwest: where did you get that sling. I know it's probably a reproduction, but it looks pretty good.

Bobcat

[neilwest]

1. It was on the rifle when it arrived.

[TheRifleman]

Well, I saw a couple of these at the Dayton gun show today. They were in beautiful condition. Both I saw were $800. I guess I'll be on a new quest. $800. is a lot to spend on a rifle this old but damn....these looked nice and if I get one this is the condition I want it to be in. Gonna have to save my pennies....

[TheRifleman]

Oh yeah, same guy that had the '03 had one of these too. You don't want to know how much :(

[neilwest]

1. I hate to admit it but I paid $900.00 for the rifle and another 100.00 for accessories and guncase. I have the bayonet, ammo pouch, cleaning rod and kit. It was a bit more then I would normally pay but I really wanted this piece of history. It is a Springfield all matching parts with a low Armory serial #. It is not recommended for shooting but after reading the report from the army posted by Redstar I did anyway. A wonderfully accurate rifle.

[Schuetzenman]

You paid $900! :eek: For a low number too! Oh well if it makes you happy . . . . .! Really I think you shouldn't have gone over $600 but from what you say it sounds pretty good.

I better not tell you how much I paid for my 03 Rock Island WWII rebuild in Mint condition. I wouldn't want to contribute to a suicide!;) :D

[neilwest]

1. Thanks, that makes me feel so much better. ;) I guess that I had to take a fall after the luck I had with the Norinco's I purchased:D

[Schuetzenman]

No problem buddy!:D

[AJ Dual]

Any idea what the serial # range is for the poor heat treating on the '03's? I've found lots of mentions of the problem and the Miltary determination that S/N's below 800,000 should be withdrawn, but not an exact figure.

Were they ever re-heat treated, and if so, what armorers mark should we look for?

I was wondering since I'm shooting buds with a guy who inherited a very early (1906?) nice one from his father-in-law. And it'd be a shame if it's only a wall-hanger, but better safe than sorry.

Andrew

[Schuetzenman]

You have it correct serial numbers under 800,000 are all suspect. Were they ever redone you ask. From what I've read on it, no they never were.

Some are to hard because the guys running the heat treat furnaces thought they new what temps were just by color and some of them were wrong.

IMO, I wouldn't pull the trigger on any of these suspect 03's. Why because you can't tell by looks if they are going to blow up, you can't be sure that they won't blow up on the first or 1,000 th shot. It's like Russian Roulette to me. There are plenty of higher numbers out there that can be had for the owning and shooting without putting your head behind a possible steel missal traveling at over 1,000 fps! :eek:

Just this past weekend there was a dealer at the Raleigh show that had two 03's in scant grip stocks and two 03A3's both 03's were in the safe range. One was a Springfield with a 1.2 million range serial and the other was a Rock Island Arsenal in a 770,000 serial number range.

The point of mentioning these weapons was that they were in VG to Excellent condition and none was more than $550. Look and you can find safe rifles to shoot. They just won't be as common as M44's or Turk 38's. ;)

[The Fourth Horseman]

For a WW1 vintage rifle consider the Model 1917. Nice pieces can still be had for around the $300 range for an eddystone. Winchester and Remington are a bit more but really nice ones still can be found cheaper than an '03




When I get an 03 it will be an 03A3.

[SeanTX]

Originally posted by Schuetzenman

snip

First yes WE made them. Second reason is probably because so many of them got sold off as surplus and sporterized back in the 50's and 60's.



Funny you should mention that. Was talking to my grandfather a few weeks ago and he mentioned that back in the 60's a gunsmith friend of his would get these for $15, in barrels, bring them to him to install a scope mount, then sell them off for $30 a piece at the begining of deer season each year. It was really hard swallowing the expletives in front of him....

[neilwest]

IMO, I wouldn't pull the trigger on any of these suspect 03's. Why because you can't tell by looks if they are going to blow up, you can't be sure that they won't blow up on the first or 1,000 th shot. It's like Russian Roulette to me. There are plenty of higher numbers out there that can be had for the owning and shooting without putting your head behind a possible steel missal traveling at over 1,000 fps! :eek:


1. I have to agree. Research your purchase. I bought a beautiful collectors gun. I have fired it and now retired it because one never knows if or when with a low number it will blow up in your face. First check to see what prices are before you purchase so you dont overpay like I did, second find a high number as suggested if you want a shooter. I now have to purchase one I can fire with confidence, if I want a Springfield. My lesson. I hope you guys learn from my mistake.

[AJ Dual]

Talked to my bud again. I was right about the S/N being really low, it's 56,xxx. We're so glad his departed father-in-law didn't sporterize it. (There's now barrels of $30 8mm Turks for future generations to curse us for...)

It's not exactly #1 presented to Gen Pershing, Herbert Hoover, or whatever happened to it, but pretty darn early, pre-WWI for sure. He's not upset about the reciever being chancy, as even if it was a post 800k S/N, it was going to be an hierloom keeper, and not a shooter anyway.

The M1 he has is much more fun for .30-'06 anyway.

Is there a S/N range for Springfields where the S/N collectability value begins to exceede the <800K S/N reciever problems? Again, not real important, since it's value is as an hierloom, but I'd like to let my friend know if he needs an insurance rider for it or something!

Andrew

[Schuetzenman]

Only Springfield rifles that I know of that are worth more than $1K are 1903A4 Remington Sniper rifles. Those go between $2 and $3K depending on condition and features, like an original scope and sling for example.

Most I'd ever seen a lower serial # go for was on Scott Duff's pages and it was an almost new in the mummy wrap Springfield 03, Museum quality, like new man!

In theory, WWII rebuilds of WWI Springfields are worth less money than an original WWI configuration rifle in Excellent condition. OTOH it's hard to not like a minty looking WWII rebuild with fresh parker all matching in color and a newer not shot out barrel.

[WARWOLFx]

Originally posted by Schuetzenman
In theory, WWII rebuilds of WWI Springfields are worth less money than an original WWI configuration rifle in Excellent condition. OTOH it's hard to not like a minty looking WWII rebuild with fresh parker all matching in color and a newer not shot out barrel.

Paid $500 for my rebuild last Spring. Serial #830,xxx High Standard barrel marked 1944. Has the later model rear sight base(ungrooved). Action is smooth as glass and the bore is perfect. Think I paid a tad to much but the gunshop was selling it on consignment and had to make their %. I'm happy with my Springfield.