223 wolf brand ammo

[slykos]

Any feedback about using wolf brand ammo in ARs? Heard horror stories about older stock with lacquer coating. But haven't heard anything about the newer type with the polymer coating, I would like some feedback from someone that has used it.

[Ready]

Most manufacturers shy away from it due to the steel case damaging the ejectors.

[napalm281]

A friend of mine has a Bushmaster. We went to the range a couple of weeks ago and part of the ammo he was using was some of the new poly coat. It functioned flawlessly. In fact the only jam he had was when he was firing some milsurp (I dont know what type) but it was caused by a faulty magazine not the ammo. IMHO buy a couple of boxes and try it out. If you like it use it if you dont try something else out.

P.S. I like the new I like the new polycoat.

[Ready]

Yeah, I don't have any experience with it, just offering hearsay but some AR's eat it up, others jam up. Just don't buy 1k of it until you know if your gun likes it.

[spur0701]

I've gone through 20K rounds of 55 g HP polymer in the last year or so....full auto M4s from work and all the 5.56s I have at home eat it up (SAR-3, Daewoo, and 5 different ARs)....I think I have had maybe 2 or 3 stuck cases in the ARs, not as many as I've had with Silver Bear, which was maybe 2 or 3 per case......

[John Kennedy]

I've had good luck with it myself. I've even used the old laquer coated stuff in my (now sold) Colt Match HBAR without trouble. I got a good deal on several cases of the polymer coated 55gr and have run a boatload through my RRA M4 and my 84s with absolutely no problems. I may be just lucky, but after several thousands of rounds of Wolf in several calibers & weapons, I have never had a failure.

Just my .02, but as prices go up and availability goes down in the future, you'll be seeing threads about how many of us wish we had bought more. It really is good ammo for the money and stores well, too.

[Cliph]

I have ordered a new Bushmaster in .223 Remington and was wondering what kinds of ammo to avoid. Do Bushmasters have problems with any particular ammo manufacturer? Are they capable of handling the higher chamber pressure of military surplus (.556) ammo? I'm a newby here though I successfully carried and fired several m-16s in Vietnam as a grunt, but them I didn't have to concern myself with buying ammo.

Thanks,
Cliff, VN 67-68 199th Infantry Bde.

[JE3146]

Bushmasters are all 5.56x45mm

You will have no problem shooting either .223 or 5.56.

Thankyou for your service Cliph, and :welcome: to Gunsnet both you and the original poster!

I'll further go in detail on Wolf ammunition.

Heres the facts.

It's dirty, it's accurate within 3MOA, it's about 99.98% reliable on average. Usually a hiccup or two a case.

Basically, it's cheap and reliable plinking ammo that goes bang everytime.

It does not break extractors, and it will not gunk up your chamber. Premature extractor or bolt lug breakage derive from corrosion on the outer edge of the bolt face. Parts weaken and break. Sometimes parts are faulty, other times... they just break...

All steel is not created equal. Wolf cases are created from soft steel wafers. They are formed into the shapes of casings and loaded. They are not heat treated steel. Your extractor is MUCH stronger than this soft steel wafer. If you start breaking extractors... my advice is buy some better quality extractors :up:

[thegundude]

If you start breaking extractors... my advice is buy some better quality extractors

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I've shot a bunch of Wolf in many different calibers and have never had trouble relating to the ammo. Mags can be bad, parts can be bad and guns can be bad. Ammo can also be bad but guns are much more prone to hiccoughs, on average, than most ammo.

[Epinephrine]

Hell, I have been against Wolf since I bought my gun, just using XM193. Im not against it because of theorhetical parts wear ( total BS), I just didnt want to put it thru my gun since I had access to better ammo that was cheap as well. But now that XM193 and Q3131A is all going to our boys overseas, its time I start shooting Wolf until I can tool up to make my own stuff. Sides, I wanna see just exactly how bad this stuff smells. From what I hear on the boards, its pretty awful.

This did pop into my head though. Since the mags are aluminum, and the cases are steel, do you think theres any mag wear? HEHE. Just had to bring this up and (hopefully freak a few people out) but I just wonder if, that after a few cases if there would be any signs of magazine wear, like thinnning of the guides or feed lip problems, or mising finish. I just wonder....

[JE3146]

Hell, I have been against Wolf since I bought my gun, just using XM193. Im not against it because of theorhetical parts wear ( total BS), I just didnt want to put it thru my gun since I had access to better ammo that was cheap as well. But now that XM193 and Q3131A is all going to our boys overseas, its time I start shooting Wolf until I can tool up to make my own stuff. Sides, I wanna see just exactly how bad this stuff smells. From what I hear on the boards, its pretty awful.

This did pop into my head though. Since the mags are aluminum, and the cases are steel, do you think theres any mag wear? HEHE. Just had to bring this up and (hopefully freak a few people out) but I just wonder if, that after a few cases if there would be any signs of magazine wear, like thinnning of the guides or feed lip problems, or mising finish. I just wonder....

The polymer coating will take the abrasion and act as a buffer.

Nothing to worry about.. and if there was wear (without the coating)... my guess is it would take literally thousands upon thousands through 1 mag to show some damage. By then the mag would have a foot in the grave anyway.

[STELLA1]

i've gone through at least 5k rnds of wolf ammo in my two ak's(1 chinese and 1 wasr-10) and only had one bad round. that is due to the fact that the primer was missing. have used both the older laquer and newer polymer coated versions without malfunctions. as to it being dirty, maybe, maybe not kind of depends how much you shoot at a sitting. i'll run through 500 at the range so of course the rifle will get dirty. at work we use the m16a2 and after less than 80 rnds those guns are straight up filthy and thats using mil. approved ammo. if the gun likes the ammo use it, if it doesn't try something else. i plan on ordering a case of 223 from cabelas next week to run through my new ar i built so i'll update after my range time.


p.s. a clean ar is a happy ar. these aren't ak's that will shoot after going through mud a few times. my experience with ar's is that when they start getting dirty they start having issues. besides who cares if the ammo is dirty, your gonna clean your gun anyways.

[bigbuck5]

Do you guys think there are any issues with using this ammo in stainless barrels? I have a RRA A4 on the way with a stainless barrel. I ordered some of the Adcom stuff before doing my homework here....lol

[STELLA1]

i just got done at the range with my ar i built using wolf ammo. went through about 300 rnds of 55fmj. the only problem with the ammo itself was 1 rnd failed to fire, that happens. i did however have mag feeding issues with the new colt mags i bought but i'm sure those issues will work themselves out with use. and they say colts the best, ha. brought the gun home and was quite suprised while cleaning it that it was not really dirty as compared to the mil. spec ammo we use in the usaf. overall impression is that wolf ammo works well in my ar and will continue to use it. as far as using in a rifle with stainless barrel it will work the same as a standard barrel. its not corrosive ammo so it wont eat the metal but still clean it after use. a stainless barrel is just stainless on the outside not the inside which is non-chromed or chromed.

[Toolman]

So far, my Bushy (XM15) hasn't cared what I ran thru it. It's ran Wolf, S & B, Bear, and military. No problems.

[El Gringo]

Is the 55 amd 62 fmj made to .223 Rem or 5.56 mil-spec?

[Toolman]

I think you'll find that 55 gr FMJ is made to .223 Rem specs.
The 5.56 NATO round is usually a 62 gr, steel penetrator bullet, with WC-844 powder. Green tip is the same thing.
WC-844 is Mil Surp, spherical particle powder.

[saleen]

Toolman,

62 gr Wolf is not the same as M855 (current "green tip" in use by the military). The projectile weighs the same, but that's about it as far as similarities are concerned. Generally, Wolf is considered to be a little less powerful than milspec M193 (55gr) or M855 (62gr), but it's a great paper puncher for a great price with more than acceptable accuracy. It is not, however, a service round; and should never be seen as one IMHO.

Spend extra for the good service type ammo, store it properly, and rely on ammo like Wolf to keep your skills up.

Just my .02


Saleen

[imanaknut]

The funny thing is that Bushmaster used to have a page on their website that stated not to use Wolf lacquer coated in their AR-15s. I haven't been able to find that page anymore.

Regardless, when I pay extra for a premium firearm, I don't mind spending extra getting good ammo to run through it. I have built an AR-15 using the cheapest parts I could find, and have no problems running any ammo through it, but then again, it doesn't have a match grade chamber, but it is rated 5,56x45.

[GMAN130U]

Are these good prices?

Wolf 55 Grain FMJ 500 rnds for $56.97 (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=174617)

Wolf 62 grain FMJ 1000 rnds for $99.72 (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=179621)

:)

[Toolman]

slykos,
I apologize for not stating the differences between factory loaded rounds vs Mil Spec, Mil brass, ect. I will try to be more specific next time.

[ubersoldate]

My AR eats wolf like candy.
Not match grade by any means but works nice for 100 meters or less....
No function problems either...

[uzimon]

with radway 62g as low as $179 delivered, in an ammo can, you dont need so much wolf :cents:

[saleen]

Be careful of the Radway stuff. Like Wolf, some rifles like it, some don't. It is not as hot as USGI, and as such some rifles simply won't eat it more than one round at a time.

We drew some of the Radway stuff for practice in Kuwait last January before heading north, and my M4 (which had never had a single malfunction ever) simply stopped working as soon as a magazine of the Radway ammo was introduced. I tried extra lubrication to no avail, and as soon as I switched for a magazine full of old dingy M855, she never skipped a beat. My TC's rifle which was maybe 50 serial numbers off mine literally ate the Radway stuff up without so much as a hiccup, so you just never know until you try it yourself in your rifle. Radway is out there and cheap right now, but don't jump in with a full case until you know it'll work for you. After all, a bargain isn't a bargain if it doesn't work.


Saleen

[RavenWarrior]

Both my Colt Comp Hbar and my Bushmaster mock M4A1 have never had any problems with the Wolf Ammo. I found that the polymer coating actually reduces copper fouling in the barrel and extends barrel life.

[saleen]

I think that for the most part the majority of ARs out there will shoot Wolf with no problems. The exceptions are the ones with tight NM chambers (which are also non chrome lined). That was my finding with the old laquer coated stuff at least, and I shot it extensively through my Bushmaster SBR, my RRA M4orgery, and another Bushmaster M4orgery that belongs to my PD.

I have yet to try the polymer Wolf since I still have a lot of laquer stuff on hand, but I would think that it would be even more reliable than the earlier stuff. The problem that most people who shoot Wolf have with it is that it is a dirty shooting ammunition that some people feel stinks something awful. It never bothered me though.

I think that the whole trend of poo-pooing on the steel cased rounds originated from ranges who wanted to sell their more expensive brass cased ammo, and who didn't want to have to sift through the brass left behind to remove the useless steel cases before selling the scrap brass for reloading. Steel cased ammo has been around a long time, so I'm immediately suspect of the warnings of accellerated extractor wear. And after thousands of rounds through mine, I have yet to notice any extractor problems from all the steel cases.


Saleen

[uzimon]

Be careful of the Radway stuff. Like Wolf, some rifles like it, some don't. It is not as hot as USGI, and as such some rifles simply won't eat it more than one round at a time.

We drew some of the Radway stuff for practice in Kuwait last January before heading north, and my M4 (which had never had a single malfunction ever) simply stopped working as soon as a magazine of the Radway ammo was introduced. I tried extra lubrication to no avail, and as soon as I switched for a magazine full of old dingy M855, she never skipped a beat. My TC's rifle which was maybe 50 serial numbers off mine literally ate the Radway stuff up without so much as a hiccup, so you just never know until you try it yourself in your rifle. Radway is out there and cheap right now, but don't jump in with a full case until you know it'll work for you. After all, a bargain isn't a bargain if it doesn't work.


Saleennow you tell me
i just got 1k rounds :wazzup:

[saleen]

Craig,

Hopefully all will be well, but the Radway problem was well documented going back at least a couple of years ago because I was leery of it when we drew it in Kuwait. I heard that the Brits down-loaded it a bit to tame it for their SA80, but I don't know if that is internet rumor or the truth. I do know that it simply won't work for all ARs because I've been a victim of it myself and based upon what I saw that day perhaps 10% of the other soldiers experienced the same thing with their M4s and M16A4s. It's just luck of the draw.

The importers won't warn you about it, but I'm sure that if it doesn't work in your rifle you can find someone here who's rifle it will work in that will take it off your hands. Don't worry about that until you know that it's a problem, however. Who knows? you may have a rifle like my TC's.


Saleen

[uzimon]

shot it today, no probs
but after a c-mag full of russian silver bear the bolt wouldnt go back far enough to strip a round from the mag..
fouled gas tube? :letssee:
is break free still best for 'tubes?
thanks
craig

[saleen]

You probably have a gas problem, but I don't know if I'd be too quick to point to the gas tube immediately. How old is the rifle? Who manufactured / assembled the upper and did it come with a bolt carrier assembly? You may have a problem with a loose gas key (the part that bolts to the top of the carrier and fits over the protruding gas tube). Check to see if it is at all loose and get back with me with the results.

Did you try any other ammo type after the problem started with the Silver Bear? Has this ever happened before?

Sorry for the 20 questions, but I'm trying to see what might be going on here. I'm not immediately inclined to say it's the gas tube.


Saleen

[uzimon]

about a 94 colt h-bar. ive only once sprayed cleaner in the tube..
when i got to range, at first i had to use the forward assist to close the action, especially with some wolf.
i cleaned the chamber with the brush, then it functioned the wolf and the radway.
then i unloaded the c-mag and after that it went to crap.
after every shot of the radway i had to pull back on the t-handle!
i pulled the remaining rounds from the 30 rounder and put em in the c-mag (remember it worked perfect)
same prob.
then i packed my crap and went home in disgust :buttkick:

another issue
with some brand new 30 rounders, i guess i slap the mag too hard, or its too thin.
these mags get jammed in the gun, way too far in. once this resulted in a round jamming ABOVE THE BOLT, between reciever and bolt.
i can look thru the ejection port and see theyre too far up.
these are park'd with no markings on them. wtf?
save the followers and trash the bodies?
also, if theres only one round in these mage, itll come loose in the upper.
or if you drop it on the wooden bench the round'll pop out.
thanks for the help SALEEN :rock:

[saleen]

So many issues.............

First off, the charge after every round thing is the hallmark of Radway in a gun that doesn't like it in my experience. Malfunction drills a-plenty!

I'm assuming that the gas key is indeed still tight since you didn't say anything, but is by any chance the gas tube slightly bent? Does it fit effortlessly into the gas key when the carrier group goes forward? If not, that interference could be what is leading to you having to use the forward assist to get the bolt closed.

During the string of malfunctions you experienced, did the weapon fail to extract the old round, or did it just fail to strip a new round from the magazine? Just how dirty is the weapon itself? I'd say that you could try putting some solvent down the tube to loosen things up, then hose it out with Gun Scrubber to see if that makes any difference at all. Do this only if the tube isn't bent, however, because that will necessitate replacement.

On the issue of magazines, the ones you describe seem to have their mag catch holes slightly off-kilter, and their feed lips seem either weak or out of spec. USGI mags are the way to go and they aren't expensive either so just go with what you know will work every time. Trust USGI and forget the rest. I can't tell you how many weapon reliability issues stem from cheap out of spec or damaged magazines.

Finally, get some good quality ammo if everything else checks out, and hit the range again. Try the Radway first, then if or when it stops working switch to some of the good stuff. If that works, I'd say that you have an ammo issue istead of a weapon issue.

HTH


Saleen

[Broncodarts]

I put 100 rounds of Wolf through my wife's RRA with only minor feed problems which I think will wind up being follower issues. I have not changed to the newer style followers yet to see if this indeed does fix the problem. I am having two steel British mags hard chromed for it and will see how they work.

[JE3146]

hard chromed mags?

seriously post pics of that :)

[Broncodarts]

As soon as I get them back.

[uzimon]

good news
radways ok in my 6920
now to work out the 6601........

[dentley]

Try to get your hands on a few rounds and try it. Never liked the old stuff. Only like to run brass through the AR's

[Epinephrine]

I finally did it. I broke down and bought 500 rounds of Wolf 55gr for $50 at a gun show this weekend. Also picked up some Talon MFG tracers for cheap to mix in with the Wolf. This should be interesting! First time anything but Q3131A or M193 has touched my Ar's chamber. I loaded up a mag and cycled the Wolf thru by hand and all the rounds chambered and extracted just fine. Only problem was a couple that missed the feed lips and didnt strip, but that happens when a gun is manually cycled. So hopefully this means I wont have any problems when I actually shoot the stuff! Ill let you know how things go if it ever gets above 20* outside!

[Epinephrine]

Well my experiance sucked. I got through 3 mags with only 5-6 FTF, but then my gun became so dirty that when it cycled, it didnt have enough pressure to cycle the bolt far enough back to strip a new round. I had to recharge the gun after every shot. To make sure it wasent a magazine or gun issue, I loaded my XM193 and it functioned fine.

But, it was also 35* outside. Is Wolf sensitive to temps like that? Im going out today to try it again with a clean gun and temps of 60* out to see what happens. Wish me luck!

[Ivan8883]

My 2005 Olympic Arms Shorty eats up 1990 Radway without a problem . Works great with winchester Us made 55grain, LCSS109, Barnaul HP, Black Hills, and Ultramax. And , with or without the NC Scope, this shorty is very accurate . THat price for Wolf Polymer 223 is good and about the s ame as the price of it at the York Pa show this past weekend. i plan to get some New Wolf 223 next month a nd have confidence it will work just fine in my AR.

[Ne1]

I loaded up a mag and cycled the Wolf thru by hand and all the rounds chambered and extracted just fine. Only problem was a couple that missed the feed lips and didnt strip, but that happens when a gun is manually cycled.

I hope you didn't do that inside your house because cycling live ammuntion is not smart or safe unless you are outside with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I'm sure YOU were safe about it. I just don't want other people thinking it's OK to do that and injure themselves or others.

Anyways, I would just add one thing to the topic..Don't test Wolf out in your new AR until it's broken in after shooting about 200-300 rounds of quality ammo. Wolf is under powered and it will not cycle well in many new ARs until the springs are loosened up. You will probably experience many FTEs if you do.

[buckythebrewer]

I Have Also Seen An Old Buffer Spring Cause Problems By Not Dampening Enough And Slam Back And Forth So Fast The Round Didnt Have Enough Time To Rise In The Mag Making It Look Like It Wasnt Cycling Back Enough.changed Buffer Spring,,,,problem Solved. Im Not Saying Thats What It Is But Its Something To Think About.good Luck

Ive Read That Bad Buffer Springs Make For Some Wierd Problems

[JE3146]

Well my experiance sucked. I got through 3 mags with only 5-6 FTF, but then my gun became so dirty that when it cycled, it didnt have enough pressure to cycle the bolt far enough back to strip a new round. I had to recharge the gun after every shot. To make sure it wasent a magazine or gun issue, I loaded my XM193 and it functioned fine.

But, it was also 35* outside. Is Wolf sensitive to temps like that? Im going out today to try it again with a clean gun and temps of 60* out to see what happens. Wish me luck!

How dirty was your gun when you started firing Wolf?

[Epinephrine]

Fucking shit! I went shooting Monday when it was 73* outside and the same damn thing happend in a clean gun plus I got a fucking round swollen in the fucking chamber!

I hope you didn't do that inside your house because cycling live ammuntion is not smart or safe unless you are outside with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I'm sure YOU were safe about it. I just don't want other people thinking it's OK to do that and injure themselves or others.

;)

Anyways, I would just add one thing to the topic..Don't test Wolf out in your new AR until it's broken in after shooting about 200-300 rounds of quality ammo. Wolf is under powered and it will not cycle well in many new ARs until the springs are loosened up. You will probably experience many FTEs if you do.

My carrier and receiver have seen 13,000 rounds and this barrel and bolt has seen 1,000 rounds. Its broken in, believe me. :D

How dirty was your gun when you started firing Wolf?

I think I had 300 rounds of Xm193 thru it since my last cleaning when I first started shooting Wolf.