Browning 1919

[pro2nd]

I just bought a semi auto from rapid fire and Im having a hard time finding the cloth belts. Any sugestions?? how well do the m-60 links work in these??? I know this isnt realy a C&R question but I like this fourm better than the rest.

[Schuetzenman]

First off M60 links don't work in the 1919A4. Is it .308 or .30-06 chambered? Frankly the 1919 can be had in 3 calibers, the first two just mentioned and 8 mm. Many are running the guns in 8 mm because the ammo is under seven cents per round when they use the Turk 8 mm. IMO the Yugo from Coles Distributing is better and safer.

Next where to get Belts. Coles has them for $20 bucks each but unless you have the cloth belt loading machine you can forget using these. There isn't enough power in a mans fingers to load a cloth belt manually.

Ohio Ordnance has cloth belts, belt loader machines and Israle .308 steel links. BTW the steel links could be reloaded by hand but you need to know how to far to stuff the round in. For .308 the forward link knuckle is left right at the mouth of the case. For .30-06 (a different link than .308) you shove it down to bottom out on the taper of the case shoulder. For 8 mm I don't know!;)

BTW I had a TNW gun for about 8 months then got offered too much money to keep it so I've had some trigger time experience on them. :D

[parrothead]

You might do a search over at www.1919a4.com theres some pretty good info over there. You might also give J&T Dist a call. Their # is 1-888-736-7725 or Cole Dist at 270-622-3569. Thats where I get my cloth belts from.
I built my own 1919 from a kit that I got from Cole Dist. and I love it. Its now a A6 version.
It definately gets some attention when I take it to the range.

As for the M-60 links I dont think that they will work. THe Canadians did a conversion on some 1919s and I believe it was called a C1 that used those links.

HTH

[pro2nd]

Thanks I got mine in 308 and then bought the 8mm conversion kit well im off deer hunting for a week see you guys later

[neilwest]

1. Deer Hunting, Damn I hate you!!!:(

[pro2nd]

:)

Well Im back from deer camp I got a nice 6 point and a huge doe. OK where can I find a linking machine and how much are they for 308 and 8mm also will the same machine link cloth belts and links????

[zouavexx]

Schuetzenman's 1919A4 :)



http://album.gunsnet.net/data/schuetzenm/full_60_p703.jpg

[Triangle 66]

Somebody swiped his rivets...............and his trigger ! :eek:

[zouavexx]

Yeah it is a work in progress :). He has all the parts to make it a semi-auto, but hasn't had the time to finish it.

[TheRifleman]

Where do you get a kit like this? How difficult would it be to build and what does it take to make it a legal semi auto?

Pro2A, at the shoot up in ohio, several guys had these in full auto. One guy had one with the barrel cut down to 12" or so. It ran like a clock when using the cloth belts. He ran some metal linked ammo through it and it was a jam-o-matic. I have no idea why this was, but just my observation.

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by TheRifleman
Where do you get a kit like this? How difficult would it be to build and what does it take to make it a legal semi auto?

Pro2A, at the shoot up in ohio, several guys had these in full auto. One guy had one with the barrel cut down to 12" or so. It ran like a clock when using the cloth belts. He ran some metal linked ammo through it and it was a jam-o-matic. I have no idea why this was, but just my observation.

They are difficult and just a bit intimidating I might ad. That's one of the reason's I haven't done mine yet. I don't have easy access to the machine tools that are required. My company has such equipment but has a no gun parts policy. They don't want people using their equipment to make goodies.;)

The semi's to comply with ATF regs, have to be incapable of taking drop in full auto parts. Most accomplish this by having either a thicker side plate or by having a side plate with a metal rib that runs inside from end to end thus preventing full auto bolts and locking frames and barrel extensions from being slipped inside the weapon.

The lock frame and barrel extension need to be modified by milling or grinding to thin them on the right side so that they can go into the gun with a nonstandard thicker side plate. My kit also requires alteration of the autosear to turn it into a trigger disconnector thus stopping full auto cycling. This requires some welding. I'm not qualified so I have to find somebody to do this part.

Then there is the need for a rivit tool and a set of rivits. Both of which I have yet to secure. I have thought about using button head cap screws and screwing the gun together. Simpler than riviting especially if you wanted to take it apart again.

Semiautos require the bottom plate to be welded to the right and left side plates by ATF regs as I recall. The weapon also needs a safety installed. My TNW gun had a knerled round knob mounted below the trigger. The knob had a slot cut in it so that you had to line the slot up with the trigger so that it could be pulled enough to discharge the weapon. Rotate it off the slot and the gun was on safe. Not a great system but it worked.

Frankly if I could find somebody to put it together for $400 to 500 I'd be tempted to give it over and let them do it or at least most of it.

After all that they probably need to be bead blasted to stripp off the old parkerizing and then reparked.

[Richard Simmons]

I just saw an ad in SGN for .308, 1919A4 kits in excellent condition, all parts included, $275 + $20 shipping from ARMEX Int. out of Sacramento, CA. I've seen 80% right side plates for $100 and blanks with blueprint and template, 4130 steel for $55. Rivet sets in SGN are $22 and the tool is $18. The 80% plate, rivets and tool are from Dave Newkirk, PO Box 806, Largo, FL 33779 (727 656-4630). Looks like a fellow could have most of the parts for about $500 or less. Getting someone to do the work could mean a finished firearms for around $1000 which is $995 less than TNW is asking before transfer and shipping. Anyone heard of ARMEX International?

[Schuetzenman]

Yes I've heard of ARmex but don't know about the quality of their kits. There's a place here on the east coast in VA that has a bunch of them. They even have the Israeli bolt hold back lever in the kits. I'll try and find the web site address for the company and put it up in the next day or two. Their kits look pretty good.

I got my kit from IMA. 3 of us went in and got them so the price was $295 as I seem to remember. I also got their pedestal mount for the 1919 at the same time.

[MickeyMouse]

McMaster Carr has the rivets. Wrong head angle, just like the ones that come in the various "rivet kits"! A little time at the lathe solves that. The BIG rivets you can make out of cold roll and aneal them. Same for the long 3/16 ones. Easier to rivet with two guys! Make a hunk of steel to JUST fit between the rows of rivets at bottom. Makes job a LOT easier.

The bolt and other parts are HARD. Carbide or Cobalt end mill required. Safety only required for commercially made guns, I think. Use what you like as it is a joke anyway.

1919 that run belts but choke on links often have wrong paw in top cover or wrong / missing bullet stop(s) on right side plate.

.308 WILL run in 30-06 links, just not as reliable. 8mm works with 30-06 links OK. Requires different left side stops/guides. Made a set - took me all day on the mill!

The Lee Tool and Machine disconnector and sear are problematic IMHO. Cheap cast sear breaks often. Working on a good one. One Rapid Fire used was much better.

Assembly and internal parts mods, not counting sear and disconnector is easily woth $500. Add $100 for park.

I wouldn't worry about the Turk ammo. Worst thing that is likely to happen to a 1919 is blow the top cover open. An out of battery fire MAY do a little damage to the gun but not often. Barrel is so strong that I suspect a squib wouldn't even blow it up.

DO BEWARE the drive spring!! Those things do get loose and they WILL hurt you!!

Get a feed way shield if you're gonna run links. Even helps with chrome trunnion.

Sorry this is sorta disjointed - just typed as things came to me.

[Schuetzenman]

Good information MM.

To Richard Simmons,
The place I was talking about in VA that has good 1919A4 kits (Israeli 7.62) is TWS. Their web site is www.twsguns.com they have new 1919 7.62 X 51 Nato chambered barrels chrome lined as I remember them that are cheap, like $40 bucks.

Purchase 3 or more and they are only $265 a kit. Check em out people! ;) Click on the option of "Other Parts".

[HatchetJoe]

Since I am close by I say send it to Stan Andrewski.

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by HatchetJoe
Since I am close by I say send it to Stan Andrewski.

Who is Stan Andrewski and where is he and what does he do?

[TheRifleman]

BTT for me :D

This sounds compicated.

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by TheRifleman
BTT for me :D

This sounds complicated.

Don't worry . . . . it is! LOL!:D

Check out the www.twsguns.com link. Then click on "Other Parts". That's where the kits are.