m-39???????

[Brick]

Some one please explain the m-39's to me. I would like one but find myself corn-fused as which to order. For example, www.gunsnammo.com, has Sako, "B" barreled, VKT, Sneaks, and SKY! How is a guy to choose???? Thanks for any help,

Brick:confused:

[Richard Simmons]

Unless you're really into collecting I'd go with a VKT (I love mine) or a "B" barrel in the best condition you can afford. The different models all have their own personal attractions. For a great shooter and first 39 I'd go with one of these. Just my .02

[REDSTAR]

These are the cream of the crop of Mosins. Any choice will be a good one. I would go for a VG or better, mint barrel preferably.
The tiger striped wood on these is fantastic. They're accurate and reliable rifles with a heavy bias towards quality. As far as the different manufactures go, it's mostly a matter of rareity. Here's a description of them:

SkY- made for the civil guard, estimated production 10,588 rifles.*

Sako- made by Sako, estimated production 59,278 rifles.

VKT (Acronym for state rifle factory- 'Valtion Kivaaritehdas' in Finnish). estimated production 48,990 rifles.

'B' Barrel- It's speculated that these rifles used Belgian barrel blanks or Russian captured barrels refurbished at FN. Another theory postulates they originated from a Swiss firm , Bofors. The B barrels will have a 'B' stamped where the makers logo usually is. Estimated production 12,889.

Sneaks- get the term because they were built between 1967 to 1972. These were probably assembled by Sako. They were built in spite of a treaty the Finns had signed with the Soviets which disallowed it, thus the name "sneaks'. These are the rarest and supposedly most desireable. They are supposedly the most accurate. Estimated production 5,500.

* from 'The Mosin Nagant Rifle' by Terence Lapin, North Cape Publications.

I have excellent condition Sako and VKT rifle. I have two more good condition Sako's on order right now.

Most rifles will be stamped with SA in a rectangle. This means Suomen Armeija (Finnish Army).

So you'll notice, they will charge a premium for the rifles with the least production totals. If you look at Soviet production totals in the tens of millions, I think any Finn M39 is comparatively rare.

Can't go wrong with an M39. Get one while you can.

[Brick]

Thanks guys!

Brick

[zouavexx]

I think I am going to order one Monday! Just which one? Hmmn

[zouavexx]

VKT (Acronym for state rifle factory- 'Valtion Kivaaritehdas' in Finnish). estimated production 48,990 rifles.

REDSTAR,

Isn't VKT the same company as Valmet?

[REDSTAR]

Valmets are made by Valmet Oy, Jyvaskyla
and Oy Sako Ab, Riihimaki.
The weird words after the commas are towns. I think Oy means arsenal or company?

VKT could very well be the name for any state run arsenal though I guess.

[zouavexx]

Here is a photo of the M39 for those of you who have never seen one.

http://www.gunsnammo.com/index_files/m39_files/M-39.jpg

Thanks for the info REDSTAR

[number_6]

Originally posted by REDSTAR
Valmets are made by Valmet Oy, Jyvaskyla
and Oy Sako Ab, Riihimaki.
The weird words after the commas are towns. I think Oy means arsenal or company?

VKT could very well be the name for any state run arsenal though I guess.

I believe that VKT is Valmet, for all intents and purposes. I've yet to find any information to the contrary. My SA M-39 is a VKT. I believe the bolt *may* be mismatched, but I'm still working on finding out. I think the importer may have stamped the last four on it, since the old number on the bolt handle is not struck out. Look for matching numbers -- accuracy counts and you want your rifle to have all matching parts.

FWIW: Although very hard to find, the M28/30 is more accurate than the M39, which is essentially a compromise rifle incorporating features that the SKY and SA wanted. I wouldn't, however, trade my M39 for the world.

Be seeing you.

[REDSTAR]

Sorry for the confusion: VKT, a state owned company, transformed into Valmet. So yes, Zouave, VKT is now known as Valmet. Here's an excerpt from a Finish paper on assualt weapons that gives some interesting O/T stuff:

Sako, the arms factory production from a military viewpoint

The commercialization of the Civil Guard Supreme Staff Gunworks in Helsinki city, the capital of Finland, on 1.4.1921 is the starting point for the 76 year old company today well known as SAKO.
Suojeluskuntain Ase- ja Konepaja Osakeyhtiö (Civil Guard Gun- and Machiningworks Ltd) was formed in 1.6.1927 from the previous Civil Guard Supreme Staff Gunworks. After the reorganisation the plant was moved from Helsinki to Riihimäki city. The Civilguard was a militarily led volunteer organisation apart from, but coworking with the FDF. The organization was abolished in 1945 after the Finnish wars.
During the 1930's there was several large projects in both construction and maintenance of small arms. The main departments included machining-, cartridge-, barrel- and woodworkshops. One of the more important products by SAKO at the time was the 7.62 M28-30 bolt action rifle, a greatly improved Mosin-Nagant clone produced until 1941 to exceed 70 000 units. It is worth noting that the very same model was used in 1937 World Shooting Championships in Helsinki.

During the early fifties much of the effort went into servicing material after the war and regaining the civilian markets. The FDF started planning the next generation of infantry weapon and asked both SAKO and Valmet (former VKT) a state owned company to produce prototypes. After some episodes the Valmet M58 assault rifle in caliber 7.62x39mm was accepted as a testbed for future trials. FDF requested offers from both Valmet and SAKO for a prototype batch consisting of 200 rifles. Valmet won the contract however and delivered 200 units of 762 RK 60 assault rifles for field trials in late 1960. Based on the gathered information specifications for the M62 was written down and prototype rifles produced. Special coldhammered barrels were ordered from SAKO for the new test models.

[TheRifleman]

Brick I just got two M39's from WG&A. I bought a B barrel and a VKT in like new condition. The B barrel shoots like you would not believe. I have not shot the VKT yet. I spent the $150. and got Like New rifles. Thats what I sugest you do.

[The Fourth Horseman]

Here was my old M39 with PU scope.

Had to sell it for personal reasons :cryeyes:

[number_6]

Originally posted by TheRifleman
Brick I just got two M39's from WG&A. I bought a B barrel and a VKT in like new condition. The B barrel shoots like you would not believe. I have not shot the VKT yet. I spent the $150. and got Like New rifles. Thats what I sugest you do.

Looks like a nice purple barrel on that one. I need to add a B to my collection before they all dry up.

Be seeing you.

[clearblue]

Can anyone tell me if the $319.99 price @WG&A for the combo M48 and M48A--8mm Yugo's, in unissued condition is a good deal?

Can it be beaten by much by going elsewhere with your C&R, say a month from today,after it comes in the mail.

I know there's egg's in the nest and I'm already counting chicks.

[REDSTAR]

That works out to $160 each...I've seen them lower than that but those are all sold out in unissued condition, both AIM and Century had them for awhile for about $120... CDNN sells unissued for $169 so I guess it's not the worst deal out there. Especially if they throw in shipping.

[number_6]

The only difference between the M48 and M48A is some milled parts (M48) V some stamped parts (M48A). If you could get two M48s for that price, I would do that instead. If you're a collector, that isn't too bad a deal. However, I can get them for about $150 off the shelf here at a local shop... Try AIM, as mentioned.

Be seeing you.

[clearblue]

Originally posted by TheRifleman
Brick I just got two M39's from WG&A. I bought a B barrel and a VKT in like new condition. The B barrel shoots like you would not believe. I have not shot the VKT yet. I spent the $150. and got Like New rifles. Thats what I sugest you do.

That's what I did -called Pat at WG&A-gave'r my credit card and ordered these two. If they're anything like the picture & performance, I'm gonna be a very happy camper. I love those straight shooting rifles!

Gonna save the M-48 purchase for when the C&R arrives-hopefully only 30 or so more days to wait.