Some Pictures of my M39

[93Cobra]

This is the one I just picked up at a local gun show. I haven't been able to shoot it yet...probably this weekend. I picked up some Albanian 7.62x54R. Is this stuff any good or what? Seems a lot of people think it's crap. Anyway...what do you think?



http://home.swbell.net/sspatten/M391.JPG
http://home.swbell.net/sspatten/M392.JPG
http://home.swbell.net/sspatten/M393.JPG
http://home.swbell.net/sspatten/M394.JPG

Scott
:)

[Richard Simmons]

Very nice. You just gotta love the Tiger Stiping in those stocks. I have had a problem with the Albanian chambering in my M39. About 20% of the rounds would not. Rim too thick, sloppy sealant on primer. Who knows? The rounds that did chamber were fine. I've gotten 1" groups at 25 meters with this stuff and that's with having to beat the bolt open and or drive out the spent cartridge due to a chamber/headspace problem with the 91/30 I was using. I simply go outside in a safe area and run some cartridges through my 39 to check them before going to the range. You can always just eject the ones that won't chamber at the range if you want. The choice is yours. Congratulations again on a beautiful rifle.

[Schuetzenman]

93Cobra, very nice looking M39 Fin. Got some questions.

Is it stamped VKT on the barrel or is there any other markings on the barrel just in front of the receiver?

Do you see a large capital "D" on the barrel?

The joinery fingers on the stock. Are they square at the ends, rounded or pointed? Any Cartouche on the bolt handle side of the stock?:cool:

[93Cobra]

Schuetzenman....

Barrel has the following markings.

Top marking is SA with a square around it. Below that is "VKT" and below that is a "D". Below that is the prod. #? (5XXXX) and below that is the date "1942".

The joinery fingers are square at the end and there is no cartouche on the bolt side of the stock. When I took it apart the other day to clean out the cosmoline, I noticed the barrel wasn't shimmed. It seems to fit perfectly. I have heard of others being shimmed. Anything else interesting I should know about the Fin M39? (history?) Thanks. BTW. What is the trigger pull normally like on these guns? This is my first Nagant. Just want to know for comparison sake.

Scott

[Schuetzenman]

Square finger joints on the stock mean it's Post WWII. The VKT is the Finnish national Arsenal. Stands for "Valtion Kivaari Tehdas" meaning "Government Rifle Factory".

The big D is an indicator of the bore designed to use the .310 " bullet. Prior to this the Fins used a barrel designed for .308 " bullets. This cartridge was set up for 3,600 atmospheres or approx 52,884 p.s.i. A 36<VKT>00 stamping should appear on the left side of the barrel in front of the receiver. If you have a rifle with a barrel that Does not have the big D and the 3600 stamp is missing and you have a barrel designed for the earlier .308 size bullet more than likely.

The Fins decided it would be a good idea to standardize on the .310" size as they were frequently capturing large stockpiles of the Russian ammo.

The SA in a box is listed as an early Sako proof mark. Could mean the barrel was made by SAKO for the VKT arsenal.

Also the sight and sight base should be stamped with a number. For example 81 might be stamped on the top of the front sight blade. There should be a matching number on the base. The number stamped on the top edge of the blad is there for two reasons. #1 it tells the height of the front sight. 81 would mean 8.1 mm in height. #2 reason is to show if the recruit was filing on the front sight. They didn't want the soldier to screw with how the sights were regulated after leaving the factory.

[93Cobra]

Thanks Schuetzenman...you are a fountain of knowledge. Regarding the trigger pull on Mosin-Nagant rifles and carbines. Mine is fairly light...which I love. Is this typical of these rifles? I can't wait to shoot it! BTW... how is Mosin-Nagant pronounced? I've heard it several different ways. What is the correct way? I want to be correctly informed. Thanks.

Scott

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by 93Cobra
Thanks Schuetzenman...you are a fountain of knowledge. Regarding the trigger pull on Mosin-Nagant rifles and carbines. Mine is fairly light...which I love. Is this typical of these rifles? I can't wait to shoot it! BTW... how is Mosin-Nagant pronounced? I've heard it several different ways. What is the correct way? I want to be correctly informed. Thanks.

Scott

On trigger pulls which I forgot to answer earlier . . . . I'd say they run about 3 lbs. up to 5 lbs. most of the time. Really not too heavy on most of them.

How do you pronounce the name? I'll attempt to spell it phonetically. Moe-seen Nah-gone. The "T" is silent.

Do you know about the two names? Mosin was the Russian that designed the action. Nagant was a Belgian designer that invented the magazine and feed system.

[REDSTAR]

Actually, I think the SA stands for Soumen Armeija, which means Finnish Army. The mark is found on varying rifles, Sako, B, VKT, etc. That mark began in 1942.

The Sako mark is typically a S inside what appears to be a cogged gear wheel with three tick marks above the S, looks kind of like a crown ( I just rechecked a book I have on these and they say those are a crown of evergreen sprigs).

Circa 1970 the army discontinued the SA mark and went with a mark in the shape of a castle watch tower. That would be a good indication of a Sneak.

Does your rifle have a brass tag inset to the buttstock? Those were unit identifiers which were ordered removed around 1941 (probably for security reasons), some rifles still have them though. I have a VKT with the tag.

I'd say you did real well on that rifle, looks like a champ. Let us know how it shoots!

[neilwest]

1. I wish I had known you were buying it, I would have called in a bid. Very nice. I want one

[93Cobra]

No. Mine does not have a stock tag. Thanks for all the compliments. I'll let you know how it shoots.

Scott

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by REDSTAR
Actually, I think the SA stands for Soumen Armeija, which means Finnish Army. The mark is found on varying rifles, Sako, B, VKT, etc. That mark began in 1942.


Thaaaaaat's it! I wasn't able to pin that down to my satisfaction but couldn't find a boxed SA in my reference material other than the "Early Sako" reference. Yep Soumen Armeija is it for sure I remember reading that in the past but couldn't dredge it out of the cobwebs of memory! Good job Redstar! :cool:

[REDSTAR]

Thanks Shuetz, I hated to contradict the Master :)

[ItalianFire]

The Tiger stripe finish on those M39's is sweet!!!! That's a nice looking M39.

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Wholly smokes,that's gorgeous wood with those stripes!!!!!

[1 Patriot-of-many]

I gotta wonder about us....Some women would call us big kids.....Maybe they're right,we get excited over a chunk of wood!!!LOL

[NC_Rebel]

Originally posted by 1 Patriot-of-many
I gotta wonder about us....Some women would call us big kids.....Maybe they're right,we get excited over a chunk of wood!!!LOL Some guys get excited over cars, some over power tools, some over guns. Hell, at least we don't have a hundred pairs of SHOES in our closets. ;) :D

93Cobra, that is one of the prettiest stocks I've ever seen!

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by 1 Patriot-of-many
I gotta wonder about us....Some women would call us big kids.....Maybe they're right,we get excited over a chunk of wood!!!LOL

Hey it keeps us off the streets at night! :D

[Doug59]

Nice Weapon I love the M-39 I've got 3 of them and hope to get more.

[sardonyx]

What's the difference between the M39, M38/M44? All these close model numbers are confusing me =P I agree with everyone, that is really beautifle tiger striping...

[Fingolfen]

What's the difference between the M39, M38/M44? All these close model numbers are confusing me =P I agree with everyone, that is really beautifle tiger striping...

I'd recommend your picking up the Terence Lapin Mosin Nagant book... it's at least a decent overview.

Anyway - the common Mosin Nagant's you'll encounter:

M91/30 - first produced in 1930, the standard Soviet infantry rifle of World War II. Some 91/30's were cut down from previous (longer) models of the Mosin Nagant - so you see a few with dates before 1930. Finland produced some as well, and restocked others, so you'll occasionally see some of those.

M38 - Soviet shortened carbine version of the M91/30. Does not accept a bayonet. Produced from 1938 through 1945 ('44 are uncommon, '45 are rare). Originally designed for second line troops who didn't need a full rifle.

M44 - probably the next most common you'll encounter after the M91/30. Soviet update of the M38 Carbine with a side folding bayonet. Pre-production started in 1943 (rare) and normal production ran from 1944 through 1948. Also produced by several other nations (China, Hungary, Poland, etc.) - but the markings are different.

M39 - NOT A SOVIET RIFLE. Finland also produced Mosin Nagants after declaring independence from Russia. They also captured and refurbished Mosin Nagants during the Winter War and Continuation War. The M39 is roughly the Finnish equivalent of the M91/30, but the stock and sights are different - it's also generally more accurate than the Soviet version.

M1891 - the one that started it all in, wait for it, 1891 (see a trend here). Produced by Russia (and foreign contractors for Russia) at several arsenals (Ishavesk, Tula, Sestoresk, Chaterault, Remington, and New England Westinghouse). Production phased out in favor of a dragoon model after the Soviet revolution. Finland also produced the M91 during World War II

M91/59 - We still don't know a lot about these rifles. We DO know that they are M91/30's shortened to carbine length. We believe it was done in the 50's (hence the 91/59 name). Past that we don't know a heck of a lot other than they're cool, and fun to shoot. :D

There are LOTS of other Mosin types out there, but they're far less common... with the price tag to boot.