Any Electricians here?

[Elduce]

The other morning one of our breakers "blew". I went downstairs flipped the switch. And had power on that circut. Now, no matter what I do, it won't stay on. I replaced the breaker. Checked light switches. Looked for things plugged into the wall...

Any ideas? TIA!!

[N/A]

What all's on that particular circut?

[Odd Al]

Sounds like you have a dead short somewhere on the circuit. Somewhere, there's a hot wire in direct contact with the neutral or ground. Been hanging any pictures or driving any nails in the walls lately? It could be a short in a light, or even in something plugged in.

[Elduce]

N/A, the upstairs hall light. Pantry light. Front porch light. Microwave. That's about all I know about. This same breaker would go during the holidays when we would use Christmas lights and the micro at the same time.

Odd Al, we did just get new carpet in the TV room. I tell you when it rains it pours. Two days ago fried the Computer while removing the old carpet. Sucks!

[N/A]

Well, what I was going to suggest was, ...that if it were all outlets, unplug everything on the circut and see if that stopped it. If it did, then something plugged in had a short...but if it didn't stop it, then it sounds like a short in the circut....as you did say you replaced the breaker itself.

With lights and a microwave on the circut, I'd say unplug the microwave and see if that stops it. If not, well, with all the nasty weather going on, could moisture have gotten in your porch light and cause it to short out? Otherwise, you could try finding the "juction" box in the attic that all these things come out of and see if there is a short in the connections. Sometimes electricians will run a wire from the breaker box to a juction box, and then run all the appliances/lights/outlets on that circut to that junction box.

[blobman]

have no idea ,but i did change out a gfi once free bump

[Richard Simmons]

Well, what I was going to suggest was, ...that if it were all outlets, unplug everything on the circut and see if that stopped it. If it did, then something plugged in had a short...but if it didn't stop it, then it sounds like a short in the circut....as you did say you replaced the breaker itself.

With lights and a microwave on the circut, I'd say unplug the microwave and see if that stops it. If not, well, with all the nasty weather going on, could moisture have gotten in your porch light and cause it to short out? Otherwise, you could try finding the "juction" box in the attic that all these things come out of and see if there is a short in the connections. Sometimes electricians will run a wire from the breaker box to a juction box, and then run all the appliances/lights/outlets on that circut to that junction box.


Excellent advise. If you have nothing on the circuit and it's still tripping the breaker you have have a wiring issue. Check for hot spots on your wall too.

[Noah Zark]

Good advice above, but there won't be any hot spots if the breaker doesn't stay latched in.

Does the new breaker trip right away, or does it take a few seconds?

Do you have a volt-ohm meter? If so, with the breaker off set the meter to ohms and put one probe into the short slot (this is the "hot" slot, to which the black conductor is landed) of a receptacle in the problem circuit and the other into the round ground prong hole of the receptacle (assuming that you have grounded receptacles). There should be infinite resistance (very high ohms) between the short slot and ground. There will likely be 100% continuity (very low ohms) between the long slot (neutral or white conductor) and ground. If you get low or no resistance between the short slot and ground, there is a dead short somewhere. Time to start pulling out receptacles and light fixtures until you find the problem.

Another suggestion: After unplugging everything from the circuit's outlets and unscrewing all the bulbs in that circuit, does the breaker still trip?

If so, you can start removing/replacing outlet receptacles in that circuit. Count up the number of outlets and number of each color and visit your fave hdwe or home center, and fire up your power screwdriver. While you have the receptacle out, look for loose wires, or burned areas, or any connection where the wire looks like corroded copper, all rough and orange-red.

When you are removing receps, in many of the junction boxes (J-boxes) you will see two Romex cables and four main wires landed to the recep, two black and two white. One of these cables feeds into that J-box, the other goes out of the J-box and feeds the next box or other device in line. The receps themselves are used to "link" each leg of the branch circuit together. By removing every recep, you are breaking up the circuit. If you have them all out and check EACH leg of the circut from a bare back conductor to the white or to the bare ground conductor and in a given particular leg you get no resistance and full conductivity, there's your problem. NOTE: You MUST remove all light bulbs from fixtures, unplug lamps, nightlights, appliances, etc. befor doing this. Any light bulb or electronic appliance that remains plugged in will show a false "short" when checking black to white. You are actually measuring the resistance of the bulb or appliance that's connected across the black and white. You should NEVER show no little or resistance (full conductivity) between black and ground. Wherever you do, there's your problem.

PM or EM me if you want to talk it out over the phone.

Noah

[N/A]

Good advice above, but there won't be any hot spots if the breaker doesn't stay latched in.

Does the new breaker trip right away, or does it take a few seconds?

Do you have a volt-ohm meter? If so, with the breaker off set the meter to ohms and put one probe into the short slot (this is the "hot" slot, to which the black conductor is landed) of a receptacle in the problem circuit and the other into the round ground prong hole of the receptacle (assuming that you have grounded receptacles). There should be infinite resistance (very high ohms) between the short slot and ground. There will likely be 100% continuity (very low ohms) between the long slot (neutral or white conductor) and ground. If you get low or no resistance between the short slot and ground, there is a dead short somewhere. Time to start pulling out receptacles and light fixtures until you find the problem.





Another suggestion: After unplugging everything from the circuit's outlets and unscrewing all the bulbs in that circuit, does the breaker still trip?

If so, you can start removing/replacing outlet receptacles in that circuit. Count up the number of outlets and number of each color and visit your fave hdwe or home center, and fire up your power screwdriver. While you have the receptacle out, look for loose wires, or burned areas, or any connection where the wire looks like corroded copper, all rough and orange-red.

When you are removing receps, in many of the junction boxes (J-boxes) you will see two Romex cables and four main wires landed to the recep, two black and two white. One of these cables feeds into that J-box, the other goes out of the J-box and feeds the next box or other device in line. The receps themselves are used to "link" each leg of the branch circuit together. By removing every recep, you are breaking up the circuit. If you have them all out and check EACH leg of the circut from a bare back conductor to the white or to the bare ground conductor and in a given particular leg you get no resistance and full conductivity, there's your problem. NOTE: You MUST remove all light bulbs from fixtures, unplug lamps, nightlights, appliances, etc. befor doing this. Any light bulb or electronic appliance that remains plugged in will show a false "short" when checking black to white. You are actually measuring the resistance of the bulb or appliance that's connected across the black and white. You should NEVER show no little or resistance (full conductivity) between black and ground. Wherever you do, there's your problem.

PM or EM me if you want to talk it out over the phone.

Noah


Noah, if he has just one outlet and the rest light fixtures on the circut, could he try this?

Unplug the microwave and see if that helps. Then, turn off the breaker, turn off all light switches to break the circut to them, remove the light bulbs. Then, plug the meter into the two slots of the outlet. then turn on each light switch one at a time, and if it makes a circut, then it might tell him if he has a short in that light fixture. Would that work and save him a little time?:dunno:

[Whiskeyman]

Microwave ovens require a 20amp breaker. Test your outlets to see if there is any voltage between neutral and ground. Also make sure your smoke detectors work properly.

[Skibane]

Noah and N/A are on the right track.

There may be other loads on that circuit that aren't obvious. Examples include the doorbell transformer, AC-powered smoke detectors, attic fan and/or light, etc.

"In my house, there's this light switch that doesn't do anything. Every so often, I would flick it on and off, just to check. Yesterday, I got a call from a woman in Madagascar. She said, 'Cut it out!' " - Steven Wright

[N/A]

"In my house, there's this light switch that doesn't do anything. Every so often, I would flick it on and off, just to check. Yesterday, I got a call from a woman in Madagascar. She said, 'Cut it out!' " - Steven Wright


Damn, I've got a light switch that doesn't seem to do anything either. I just leave it off all the time. I wonder if it goes to the DNC, as they seem to be in the dark all the time. :dunno:

[Mountain survivor]

Hey Paul, get in touch with Freedom one. He is a master electrician.

[Odd Al]

Odd Al, we did just get new carpet in the TV room. I tell you when it rains it pours. Two days ago fried the Computer while removing the old carpet. Sucks!

It's very possible they've driven a nail into a wire. You're going to have to identify everything on the circuit, and go from device to device, disconnecting the wires until you find one that, after disconnecting it, the breaker will stay on. That will give the the general area where the short is (ex: between the porch light and the MW plug). Then you'll have to figure out a way to run a new wire between those two devices. If you can get in the crawlspace, you may be able to look for a nail in the wire. Insulation will make that very difficult though, and that won't help if it's upstairs.

[Elduce]

Thanks again guys. Tomorrow when the children are at school I am going to try and figure this out some more.

[Sten-Can]

I had a problem like this on my stove circit replaced the breaker poped right away checked all the wires no bare spots checked the burners no shorts .Then we were going to get another stove and when we removed the back pannel a big mouse was in there chewing the wires on the oven thermostat circit and bit into the wire and grounded himself .If you try all the normal things look for something not normal.ps the stove still works the mouse went for a swim in the toilet.

[MRIman]

First,turn off your main breaker.
Second,pull your panel box cover off.
Third,inspect terminal screw tightness of your "bad circuit" Tighten if loose
and see if it helps.
Forth,isolate the problem.Pull the black wire off the "bad" breaker
and swap it with a different circuit. Mark your wires good so you can
replace them on the correct breaker.
If the problem is still "tripping" the different breaker,check that circuit out.
If it's not go out and get yourself a new breaker.
You should replace it with a GFCI breaker if you do.They cost money
but it's code for your kitchen.If your X-mas lights are outside,check
that outside recpt. for problems first.
I live on top of the world. Get LOTS of lightening,no direct hits,but have changed a few "bad" breaker at my place because of it.
Yes I'm an electrician by trade. Trouble shooting is my bread and butter.

MRI