For those of you in construction/building houses,etc.

[nsl]

I have noticed within the last few years that there seems to be more emphesis(spelling?) on speed than quallity.Has it always been this way?I work at a plumbing company during the week,and help an electrician on the weekends,and have noticed walls out of level/square,humps in the wall where a stud sticks out past the others,etc.Even the more expensive fixtures that I install are not really better made than the cheap ones,but that is another story.Anyway,I just wonder why someone would spend the ungodly amount of money it takes to build a house these days and let such stuff get past.

[American Rage]

I have noticed within the last few years that there seems to be more emphesis(spelling?) on speed than quallity.Has it always been this way?I work at a plumbing company during the week,and help an electrician on the weekends,and have noticed walls out of level/square,humps in the wall where a stud sticks out past the others,etc.Even the more expensive fixtures that I install are not really better made than the cheap ones,but that is another story.Anyway,I just wonder why someone would spend the ungodly amount of money it takes to build a house these days and let such stuff get past.


It's always been that way. When I worked construction, the thing that surprised me the most was the fact that nothing was ever straight, plumb or level. And we were the framers. The way it works is that the basic structure is put together to the best of the ability of the framers using whatever wood they have for the job. In the end, the house is actually stronger than it would have been if everything was right on the money. That occurs b/c many of the walls act like a giant springs holding the house together. I know that sounds weird, but it's true.

Finally, the sign of a good construction worker is his/her ability to cover up the fuckups of the previous construction workers. Thus, though your inner walls bulge out (due to crooked and/or bent 2X4's), the sheet rockers should have the talent to fix it so that it looks straight and correct. This works for the other crews as well. For example, the dry wallers cover up the mistakes of the framers. The mud guys cover up the mistakes of the dry wallers. The painters cover up the mistakes of the mud guys. And finally, the trimmers cover up the mistakes of the painters. In the end, everything looks pretty darned good. But in reality, nothing is exactly as it should be.



Rage


Rage

[N/A]

It's that way because everyone is into using the cheapest lumber, doing it in the fastest time, getting their money and getting out to the next job.

The sheet rockers are just going to go over what ever studs are there, they don't care, The painters are going to paint whatever is there.

Ain't no one going to fix the other guy's mistake, because it was the other guy's mistake and he should fix it.

Try setting cabinets in a house out of plumb with a crooked stud holding the wall out.

Want to get a house built...find a crew that does it all from foundation to shingles. They're more likely to do it right cause they have to fix any mistakes they make to make the next step go smooth....and they get tired of fixing mistakes and getting chewed out about it so they learn to do it right. Sub contract out and no one cares,..."let the next guy cover it up" attitude.

[Shorty Pimp]

I've been in newly built $500k homes that you could literally see daylight through the wall. What do you expect when you have a home built by drunks and drug addicts? Most of the guys building homes around here couldn't step off a rafter if their lives depended on it and it really shows. My biggest peave besides linoleum anywhere in a $300k+ house is floors framed 24"oc. If I'm shelling out a couple hundred grand, I want a floor that doesn't feel like it's going to give way.

I wouldn't be satisfied with a new house unless I were building it myself. The cost cutting and the little details that are missed by most crews really drives me nuts.

[BISHOP]

It's always been that way. When I worked construction, the thing that surprised me the most was the fact that nothing was ever straight, plumb or level. And we were the framers.

You're a HACK
Everything we build is level and plumb. PERIOD.

We frame a wall, square it up, and sheath it before its ever raised.
Doing it that way its guaranteed straight and saves alot of time trying to sheath something you can't reach without a latter.

I have works with HACKS, they work very fast and then they have to go over again and try to hid or fix everything thgey fucked up.

I have seen one guy that instaleld a new door, and called it done, and the door couldn't even close, EVER!

Too many contractors are too busy chasing a deposit so they can pay their guys for the last build than slow down just a little bit and do the work right.
If you know what you are doing then everything comes out right.

Last year we finished a 6K square foot building and was only 1/8" off.

The guys that have walls that bow up in some places aren't measuring and cutting the studs all to one maesurment, they are just believing the lumber yard that they are all 8ft or 93" or whatever the measurement should be.
Walls that bow in or out do that because they aren't crowing the lumber before using it.

This is all something the stupid uneducated mexican can be doing as you guys build.

Basicaly if you can't build a straight wall you're a HACK.


BISHOP

[ubersoldate]

Im a licensed/bonded contractor in AZ, and my paperwork was filled last week for Texas.
I do carpentry, drywall, painting, stucko, and some roofing.
I started in the 80's with the Air Force, CE prime beef, and have worked in at least 6 states and in some million dollar homes since..

I do not cut corners, everything is done to the best of my ability. Sometimes its the homeowners that want to save money and tell you to keep going if the work isnt up to par.
I just dont take jobs like that.
The contractor market is like any market, there is mexican labor people, or crews like Rage's that dont care, and they dont last long in this biz, but usually in their short lifetime they give all of us that take great pride in our work a bad name.

[powerkicker]

Residential framing is notoriously crooked and out of true. That is because homes are largely made of wood which we all know warps, twists and buckles in the various climate conditions to which it is exposed during construction. Walls get rained on, then sun-baked etc. and all of this adds up to walls with "character".Commercial metal stud construction tends to be straighter and true but the commercial finishes such as drivit and the like tend to have character of their own due to the human factor involved in their application.

[Odd Al]

I got out of the construction business about five years ago. I started doing residential electrical work in ~1990, and worked on and off at it for a while. Intially it was piece work, hit it and quit it. The neighborhoods are all the same way - piece work, getting paid by the job. That means get it done and go, no concern for the quality. It's only gone downhill as more and more of the construction industry has been taken over by illegals.

[N/A]

You're a HACK
The guys that have walls that bow up in some places aren't measuring and cutting the studs all to one maesurment, they are just believing the lumber yard that they are all 8ft or 93" or whatever the measurement should be.
BISHOP

A stud is 92 5/8 inches....which you should know as well as your shoe size.

[theendisnigh]

It's only gone downhill as more and more of the construction industry has been taken over by illegals.

I can't believe the amount of just-swam-across-the-river illegals are building the bazillion dollar houses around here. I doubt if they ever built anything other than their tin barrio shack before they got here.

[American Rage]

You're a HACK
Everything we build is level and plumb. PERIOD.

We frame a wall, square it up, and sheath it before its ever raised.
Doing it that way its guaranteed straight and saves alot of time trying to sheath something you can't reach without a latter.

I have works with HACKS, they work very fast and then they have to go over again and try to hid or fix everything thgey fucked up.

I have seen one guy that instaleld a new door, and called it done, and the door couldn't even close, EVER!

Too many contractors are too busy chasing a deposit so they can pay their guys for the last build than slow down just a little bit and do the work right.
If you know what you are doing then everything comes out right.

Last year we finished a 6K square foot building and was only 1/8" off.

The guys that have walls that bow up in some places aren't measuring and cutting the studs all to one maesurment, they are just believing the lumber yard that they are all 8ft or 93" or whatever the measurement should be.
Walls that bow in or out do that because they aren't crowing the lumber before using it.

This is all something the stupid uneducated mexican can be doing as you guys build.

Basicaly if you can't build a straight wall you're a HACK.


BISHOP


FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!

IF I HAD A 10,000 BUCKS, I'D BET ALL OF IT AND PROVE YOU'RE A GODDAMNED LYING SON OF A BITCH!!!!!

THERE ISN'T A HOME BUILT TODAY ANYWHERE IN AMERICA WITH MORE THAN A DOZEN STRAIGHT STICKS IN THEM. AND IF YOU CLAIM THERE IS, YOU'RE THE LYING SON OF A BITCH I CLAIM YOU ARE.

NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YOU'LL BE CLAIMING THAT 2 X 4's ARE ACTUALLY
2 X 4.

I stand by my statement. AS THE LAW AGREES WITH ME, LITERALLY!!

But then again, I wouldn't expect a guy who couldn't spell "basically" to be able to read either a measuring tape or a level to begin with.


Rage

PS: Everything we ever did passed State inspection. I can't say that for every crew. In fact, we were hired several times to fix houses that couldn't pass inspection.

[Oswald Bastable]

I can't believe the amount of just-swam-across-the-river illegals are building the bazillion dollar houses around here. I doubt if they ever built anything other than their tin barrio shack before they got here.

I once had a mexican neighbor (here legally, not an illegal) who needed to replace some concrete steps up to his back door, about 5 to 6 steps. He build a basic form, nothing particularly plumb or true, put some concrete at the bottom, added some trash, scrap wood, anything he could find to take up space along with the concrete as he went. Finished it off with a layer of concrete at the top, smoothed it half assed and called it done.

Of course when the forms came off, you could see bits and pieces of the filler here and there along the sides...

It's a whole different concept of construction. An one wonders why mehico is a shit hole....

[Odd Al]

I can't believe the amount of just-swam-across-the-river illegals are building the bazillion dollar houses around here. I doubt if they ever built anything other than their tin barrio shack before they got here.

and they send ~$12 billion back to mexico every year.

[LeftofCentralFL]

Where do some of these folks get their wood? Some of it is so fuzzy it is scary to breathe around.

[gunnutjay]

Where do some of these folks get their wood?

Hey LeftofCentralFL... China has REALLY shitty wood!!!

Cheers
gunnutjay

[BISHOP]

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!

IF I HAD A 10,000 BUCKS, I'D BET ALL OF IT AND PROVE YOU'RE A GODDAMNED LYING SON OF A BITCH!!!!!

THERE ISN'T A HOME BUILT TODAY ANYWHERE IN AMERICA WITH MORE THAN A DOZEN STRAIGHT STICKS IN THEM. AND IF YOU CLAIM THERE IS, YOU'RE THE LYING SON OF A BITCH I CLAIM YOU ARE.

NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YOU'LL BE CLAIMING THAT 2 X 4's ARE ACTUALLY
2 X 4.

I stand by my statement. AS THE LAW AGREES WITH ME, LITERALLY!!

But then again, I wouldn't expect a guy who couldn't spell "basically" to be able to read either a measuring tape or a level to begin with.


Now now lets not get into name calling HACK.
When we get a drop we go through the wood as we cut them to size. All crappy warped or twisted boards are put aside and later returned for credit.
So NO we don't have shitty studs in our walls.
It sounds like you were just one peon of many that after smoking your weed has to go to work so he can buy more, are told what to do and couldn't realy care what it looks like or how its done because someone else will fix it.
Our work is LEVEL and PLUM, the only thing that messes us up is the concrete work.
After dealing with that we're all set. We don't have a team its just me and another guy and we do quality work.

We just finished a 3 bedroom house in 3½ months. Except for the missing kitchen and rugs upstairs its ready to be lived in...


To finish this up, please don't call me bitch or asshole, because I can build a straight wall. OH and make sure you place the house wrap right sides up. Morons put it upside down, "Hey it doesn't matter no one will see it......."


BISHOP

[MachinistTX]

Having been a door installer, I can honestly say that the overwhelming majority of houses are built as fast, cheap, and f!@#ed up as possible and will still sell. I've literally had to break the floorplate in a couple of houses because the wetback framers built the wall three freaking inches!!!!! out of plumb. Some of those were in cheap(80-100K) homes, and some were in 500k+ homes.

I've had sheetrockers and insulation guys come in after I installed a door and completely screw it up- meaning I had to go back, tear the damn thing out, and then start over-sometime the jackass superintendant would wait until after the house had been bricked to call, like I can do anything then.

I've seen well constructed 80k houses and very, very poorly constructed 500k+ homes.

Why do people still buy them? Because they don't know any better.

[N/A]

Now, NSL, you see why you never let another contractor on your job site....and you never go on another's job site....

[blobman]

iv sen it all .............i mean ALL.iv even hung a shelf that wasnt level(dont tell bishop),hell i even ate lunch with those filthy,wobbly wall buildin mezcans.........but one thing remains tghe same ,if you pay hundreds of thousands o dollars for a crib and dont make weekly visit you are askin for trouble ,or worse yet buy the damn thing after its done,bishop you build em like the old days,very few peoople are interested in the old day ways ,most want it done ,roll on down the road get anothe rone done and on ands on............dont get bent outta shape cause people settle for less than what you provide(and how do you figure the squareness on a 6000 # foot house (is that elevation included),did you measure every foot of shoe and not half an inch of deviationfrom one end to the other.....edit i always thought rage smoked weed too :cents:

[Odd Al]

I once had to hang a series of lights down a hallway. I measured down the hall to where the first light should go, found the center, and hung the box. Three other lights went up in this fashion, based on my first measurement. When I was done, I stood back and looked, and saw that the lights appeared to be steadily running off to one side, not down the center. I rechecked my measurements, they all matched. I was stumped. After a while, I realized the problem - the hallway narrowed from one end to the other, so my first measurement for the first one was not at the center for the rest of the lights.

[N/A]

iv sen it all .............i mean ALL.iv even hung a shelf that wasnt level(dont tell bishop),hell i even ate lunch with those filthy,wobbly wall buildin mezcans.........but one thing remains tghe same ,if you pay hundreds of thousands o dollars for a crib and dont make weekly visit you are askin for trouble ,or worse yet buy the damn thing after its done,bishop you build em like the old days,very few peoople are interested in the old day ways ,most want it done ,roll on down the road get anothe rone done and on ands on............dont get bent outta shape cause people settle for less than what you provide(and how do you figure the squareness on a 6000 # foot house (is that elevation included),did you measure every foot of shoe and not half an inch of deviationfrom one end to the other.....edit i always thought rage smoked weed too :cents:

Gosh, blobman, reading your post makes me wonder which weed you're smoking tonight. :D :dunno:

[284]

more emphesis(spelling?) on speed than quallity.Has it always been this way?
The further down the road one is in the construction process, the more it's like "putting lipstick on pigs". Folks get paid by the lineal/square foot, sheet, etc. The only difference is usually remodelers, but even that's not always true.

[American Rage]

1. Now now lets not get into name calling HACK.

No problem there, Bitchup.

2. When we get a drop we go through the wood as we cut them to size. All crappy warped or twisted boards are put aside and later returned for credit.

I never said anything about "crappy, warped, or twisted boards." But then again, if your reading comprehension was half the size of your fuckin' mouth, you'd have known that. And we were too busy building homes to take back crappy wood. It was used for saw horses and such. Damned little is ever wasted in regards to material.

3. So NO we don't have shitty studs in our walls.

Your low reading comprehension scores strike again. What I said was, "the thing that surprised me the most was the fact that nothing was ever straight, plumb or level. If you're going to criticize, get it right dumbass! And I stand by that statement, as any COMMERCIAL builder knows.

4. It sounds like you were just one peon of many that after smoking your weed has to go to work so he can buy more, are told what to do and couldn't realy care what it looks like or how its done because someone else will fix it.

Actually, we were a small crew doing small houses. We didn't smoke weed, but we fixed a lot of homes built by drunks,...the type that drink on the job every day. And yes we did care. That's why we were repeatedly hired, and our homes always passed inspection.

5. Our work is LEVEL and PLUM, the only thing that messes us up is the concrete work.

Here you are correct, in my haste to describe modern stick house building techniques, I misstated my case. Still, everything is built to within parameters that are ALWAYS designed to allow for fuck up tolerances. Concrete work is merely a symptom of the trade. FINALLY, IF YOU HAD ANY COMPREHENSION OF THE WRITTEN WORD, YOU WOULD HAVE ALSO RECOGNIZED THAT I ATTEMPTED TO EXPLAIN HOW MUCH OF THAT ACTUALLY MADE THE BUILDING STRONGER.

6. We just finished a 3 bedroom house in 3½ months. Except for the missing kitchen and rugs upstairs its ready to be lived in...

Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahaha! YOU CALL THAT CONSTUCTION! I CALL THAT A HOBBY! We built a home a week (crew of four to five), two and a half weeks if we were putting in a cut-in, hip-roof.

8. To finish this up, please don't call me bitch or asshole, because I can build a straight wall.

Yeah, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE A LIVING AT IT! Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahaaha! You're a fuckin' light weight!

OH and make sure you place the house wrap right sides up. Morons put it upside down, "Hey it doesn't matter no one will see it......."

You're lecturing me, ROOKIE!?

BISHOP


Rage

[JorgWalther]

http://www.hforhealth.com/editorial/Jan2004/images/POPCORN_HAND.jpg

[BISHOP]

Stay on topic American Rage.
Changing the subject to grammar and reading comprehension is the act of someone that can't defend his position.

You already stated that you can't build a straight wall because....
"Thus, though your inner walls bulge out (due to crooked and/or bent 2X4's), "
and
"THERE ISN'T A HOME BUILT TODAY ANYWHERE IN AMERICA WITH MORE THAN A DOZEN STRAIGHT STICKS IN THEM"
So telling you that all you have to do is send them back instead of building crooked houses out of known inferior materials is right on the mark.
Oh my mistake you are too busy making ranches SO fast you don't take the time to do the most basic step, check to see if you have quality materials.

"Concrete work is merely a symptom of the trade. FINALLY, IF YOU HAD ANY COMPREHENSION OF THE WRITTEN WORD, YOU WOULD HAVE ALSO RECOGNIZED THAT I ATTEMPTED TO EXPLAIN HOW MUCH OF THAT ACTUALLY MADE THE BUILDING STRONGER."
I never knew making crooked and warped walls made a house better.

"Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahaha! YOU CALL THAT CONSTRUCTION! I CALL THAT A HOBBY! We built a home a week (crew of four to five), two and a half weeks if we were putting in a cut-in, hip-roof"
YUP we can do a ranch in that time too and we are only a crew of 2.

No wonder houses blow over so easily every time there is a small storm in Oklahoma, nothing is built straight. Unlevel houses are stronger. You must keep telling your customers that so much that you actually believe it now.


blobman, the 6K sq. ft building was a garage with office space 3 bathrooms, conference room 2 full size (normal 2 car garage space) garage size cold storage areas ,35ft tool bench, steel sided inside and out with metal roof.
I'll get photos when my host is back online.
With a crew of 4 that took 4 months.


BISHOP

[N/A]

Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahaha! YOU CALL THAT CONSTUCTION! I CALL THAT A HOBBY! We built a home a week (crew of four to five), two and a half weeks if we were putting in a cut-in, hip-roof.

Rage, I'll have to question that,...you "built" a home a week, or you "framed" a home a week. "built" would mean a finished home ready to be moved into, where "framed" is something else entirely. And why an extra week and half just because of a roof with hips or valleys?

This is a question that used to get asked regulary when i was still on a crew. If you use a square (not a little speed square) to lay off a rafter, and depending on the pitch you use the X and 12 to lay off a rafter, what measurement do you use to lay off hip and valley rafters?

x and ?

[BISHOP]

Yeah, not to slam Rage anymore than neccessary, but I think he is just a framer so yes, a ranch in 2 weeks is just fine. Normal too.
We build complete houses, and to all finish work , hardwood flooring, doors, stairs, windows, doors, install the kitchen and bathroom vanities,ect..
We built a complete house in less than 3½ months, alot of days were half days and some days weren't even building, but duck or deer hunting.
This next house will be interrupted with Scallop diving and lobster trapping.
Here is that house (I wanted to post it yesterday but my host was down).
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-2/955907/House1.JPG
We do everything BUT; paint, plumbing, heating, electrical, roofing, mud, and now we won't do any sheetrock. It speeds us up and plus we hate doing that anyway, the pros can do it faster anyway.

The 6K sq ft building was floor space. for the life of me I can't find a single exterior picture, but I have alot of interior pics if anyone in interested.


BISHOP

[N/A]

The 6K sq ft building was floor space. for the life of me I can't find a single exterior picture, but I have alot of interior pics if anyone in interested.
BISHOP

To be honest...I'd be more interested in pics of the scallop diving and lobster trapping...us desert boys get to trap crawdads and go muff diving, but thats about it.

BTW, what is the frost line up there, 8 or 10 feet or so?

[BISHOP]

Its been releatively warm this winter. The frost line is at about 2½-3 ft right now.
THis I have seen just yesterday because they were trying to back fill the new foundation, with all off that frozen crap....

The people that we build houses for are idiots. Once that back fill warms up and settles it will drop over 4ft.


BISHOP

[American Rage]

Rage, I'll have to question that,...you "built" a home a week, or you "framed" a home a week. "built" would mean a finished home ready to be moved into, where "framed" is something else entirely. And why an extra week and half just because of a roof with hips or valleys?

This is a question that used to get asked regulary when i was still on a crew. If you use a square (not a little speed square) to lay off a rafter, and depending on the pitch you use the X and 12 to lay off a rafter, what measurement do you use to lay off hip and valley rafters?

x and ?


Framed.

Rage

Stay on topic American Rage.
Changing the subject to grammar and reading comprehension is the act of someone that can't defend his position.

You already stated that you can't build a straight wall because....
"Thus, though your inner walls bulge out (due to crooked and/or bent 2X4's), "
and
"THERE ISN'T A HOME BUILT TODAY ANYWHERE IN AMERICA WITH MORE THAN A DOZEN STRAIGHT STICKS IN THEM"
So telling you that all you have to do is send them back instead of building crooked houses out of known inferior materials is right on the mark.
Oh my mistake you are too busy making ranches SO fast you don't take the time to do the most basic step, check to see if you have quality materials.

"Concrete work is merely a symptom of the trade. FINALLY, IF YOU HAD ANY COMPREHENSION OF THE WRITTEN WORD, YOU WOULD HAVE ALSO RECOGNIZED THAT I ATTEMPTED TO EXPLAIN HOW MUCH OF THAT ACTUALLY MADE THE BUILDING STRONGER."
I never knew making crooked and warped walls made a house better.

"Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahaha! YOU CALL THAT CONSTRUCTION! I CALL THAT A HOBBY! We built a home a week (crew of four to five), two and a half weeks if we were putting in a cut-in, hip-roof"
YUP we can do a ranch in that time too and we are only a crew of 2.

No wonder houses blow over so easily every time there is a small storm in Oklahoma, nothing is built straight. Unlevel houses are stronger. You must keep telling your customers that so much that you actually believe it now.


blobman, the 6K sq. ft building was a garage with office space 3 bathrooms, conference room 2 full size (normal 2 car garage space) garage size cold storage areas ,35ft tool bench, steel sided inside and out with metal roof.
I'll get photos when my host is back online.
With a crew of 4 that took 4 months.


BISHOP


Too bad I don't live anywhere near Maine, 'cause I'd love to put a level on your work. Regardless, you're still an asshole.


Rage

Stay on topic American Rage.
Changing the subject to grammar and reading comprehension is the act of someone that can't defend his position.

Actually, I defended my position fairly well, you're just too stupid to realize it.

You already stated that you can't build a straight wall because....
"Thus, though your inner walls bulge out (due to crooked and/or bent 2X4's), "

That ain't what I said, I'll stand by my statement.

and
"THERE ISN'T A HOME BUILT TODAY ANYWHERE IN AMERICA WITH MORE THAN A DOZEN STRAIGHT STICKS IN THEM"
So telling you that all you have to do is send them back instead of building crooked houses out of known inferior materials is right on the mark.
Oh my mistake you are too busy making ranches SO fast you don't take the time to do the most basic step, check to see if you have quality materials.

See above.

"Concrete work is merely a symptom of the trade. FINALLY, IF YOU HAD ANY COMPREHENSION OF THE WRITTEN WORD, YOU WOULD HAVE ALSO RECOGNIZED THAT I ATTEMPTED TO EXPLAIN HOW MUCH OF THAT ACTUALLY MADE THE BUILDING STRONGER."
I never knew making crooked and warped walls made a house better.

Again, not what I said. Your not very bright, are you?

"Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahaha! YOU CALL THAT CONSTRUCTION! I CALL THAT A HOBBY! We built a home a week (crew of four to five), two and a half weeks if we were putting in a cut-in, hip-roof"
YUP we can do a ranch in that time too and we are only a crew of 2.

No wonder houses blow over so easily every time there is a small storm in Oklahoma, nothing is built straight. Unlevel houses are stronger. You must keep telling your customers that so much that you actually believe it now.



blobman, the 6K sq. ft building was a garage with office space 3 bathrooms, conference room 2 full size (normal 2 car garage space) garage size cold storage areas ,35ft tool bench, steel sided inside and out with metal roof.
I'll get photos when my host is back online.
With a crew of 4 that took 4 months.

You'd be out of business in a week around here. Of course, we've got competition and a nonsocialist gov't. Get a job, asshat.


BISHOP

[N/A]

Rage, I think you're going to be on the loosing end of this. You're talking and comparing sub-contract work (framing) to a crew doing the whole job. If you are on a framing crew and all you do is frame in an enviorment that wants it done fast and not to caring about overall quality...than it doesn't compare to a crew that builds something from the foundation up.
You expect the next guy to cover up and make look good what ya'll do. Bishop has to be the one who does the next step after anything he does. He is gonna, and he is going to have, the time to do it better than the crew you were on.
You were probably good at what your crew expected from you...but in your line of work, or what was your line of work. (you're a teacher now, aren't you) it has gotten where everyone expects the sub-contractors to get in and get out and they tend to overlook a lot. You probably showed up on the job and all the materials were there waiting for you and ya'll jumped right on it and went to work. I'm guessing you didn't buy the material, or if you did, you bought lifts at a time, and what ever was in the lift was what you used. You really weren't too interested in what ot looked like because everyone tended to accept the material as is and used it. In other words, the quality of the material was not upper most in ya'lls minds, just get the job done and get on to the next one and lext the next guy sweat fixing anything wrong...all about making more money.
Bishop on the other hand, works on a small crew, has to do everything, and their reputation and future work rides on doing the job right. Word of mouth can kill.

You can try to compare ya'lls work to Bishops, but the simple truth is, you can not do the work he does with the attitude you learned on that crew. You can do the work on that crew, but they didn't have the attitude of doing quality work...just doing the work fast and getting out of the way. Apparently that is all that was expected of them and that seems to be all that ya'll gave.

Bishop can frame up a house. He can probably lay out, set forms and pour the slab. he can probaly sheet rock, shingle, paint. tape and bed. trim and a lot of other things. Can you do all that? I don't know if you can or not, but I'm willing to guess is all you ever did was work a framing crew...if so, I hate to tell you, but they gave you a great lesson in quicke framing but not much in quality construction. Just because it has gotten to where people will accept less than quality work because it is all they can get does not mean that it should be acceptable...nor something one should hang his hat on.
I think you loose on this one Rage.



BTW: Bishop, you never should have called Rage a Hack...that was unfair of you also.

[blobman]

getting back to the "6k foot house that was 1/8 inch off,where do you get that figure,whats up with that shoe? rage aint makin silly statements,just the Gods honest truth,good for him

[N/A]

getting back to the "6k foot house that was 1/8 inch off,where do you get that figure,whats up with that shoe? rage aint makin silly statements,just the Gods honest truth,good for him

It may be God's honest truth...but it ain't God's greatest work....what if God made the earth in three days and California fell off in the ocean because He didn't secure it good enough?

[blobman]

well ,THAT would be Gods honest WORK,which wouldnt bother me

[American Rage]

NA, I respect your opinion to the fullest.

But Bishop had no idea what he's talkin' about. And I still bet that he doesn't want me anywhere near his work with a level and a set of blueprints. That don't mean he doesn't do good work, but only that stick built homes, even at their finest, are never built to perfection. It (perfection) just ain't possible. That's why they're built to specs.


Rage

.

Bishop can frame up a house. He can probably lay out, set forms and pour the slab. he can probaly sheet rock, shingle, paint. tape and bed. trim and a lot of other things. Can you do all that? I don't know if you can or not, but I'm willing to guess is all you ever did was work a framing crew...if so, I hate to tell you, but they gave you a great lesson in quicke framing but not much in quality construction. Just because it has gotten to where people will accept less than quality work because it is all they can get does not mean that it should be acceptable...nor something one should hang his hat on.
I think you loose on this one Rage.



BTW: Bishop, you never should have called Rage a Hack...that was unfair of you also.


I know plenty of guys who can do the same. Drink with them nearly every day.

Truth is that if Bishop would have come up and said, "hey, that ain't how we do it," I could have respected that and been more than willing to listen. Instead, he starts talkin' crap about things he clearly knows nothing about.


Rage

[N/A]

Ok, I'll leave it to ya'll to sort out...