Car Mechanics Question

[LeftofCentralFL]

2000 Camry.

A few weeks ago. Didn't start right away. Just a single clcik with each key turn. It then it strted up just fine. Then it was fine for a few days. Then, same thing, requiring I clean the fuzz off the + terminal.

Fine for a week. Then same thing, needing the 200 Amp Start Charger to get it to turn over. Turned it off, and it started right back up again. Battery read 12.3v then 14.4 when started.

Clue: pulled the cable off the battery while it was running, didn't even slow it down.

Drove it to work, and it wouldn't start 11 hours later. Same single click with each key turn. Didn't want to start with a jump with an old set of jumper cables. In fact, it didn't even slow the other engine down. Read 13.4 volts at the end of the cables when hooked to the battery.

New battery, started right up. 6 hours later. Single click, no start. Needed the start charger to get it to start.

Drove it home about 20 minute trip. Started right up three times in a row five minutes after shutting it down.

The following is sheer speculation:

I am going to assume it will again not start in the morning. I also predict that after being on the start charger for a few seconds, it will fire right up. I will also further guess that if I take the cables off the battery, it will start fine after reconnecting in the morning.

My meter does not have any way of measuring DC Amps.

Q: Any possibility OTHER than a phantom load/short draining the battery, and a crappy set of jumper cables?

Would bad battery/started cables/connectors cause similar simptoms?

Don't forget the speculation on my part was exactly that, not facts, just a gut feeling of what I would expect if I did what I described.

Thanks in advance for any help.

-lefty

[Arnulf]

Shade tree mechanic here:D

Check the ground wire to the engine block....also take a wrench or a hammer and tap the starter motor....if it starts after you rap on the starter....you need a new starter!
Remember to check the ground wire to the block!:)

I guess I should explain....electric starter motors will get burned out contacts....and when you rap on it...it will knock it past the dead contact to one thats working!

[bavarian]

If you have a meter make sure the battery voltage is a little higher than 12 vdc without the car running and and about 13.8 vdc running. This says the charging system is working. As mentioned earlier check all connections. You said the battery was replaced so I'll assume it's OK but you can measure voltage when you crank it and see if it drops to below 10.5 or less indicating a short in the load (aka starter motor). Autozone lists the starter at around $175 so you have an idea what the part will cost. The click you here is the solonoid kicking in but the motor not working. Often times it's simply bad brushes which are much cheaper if you are willing to tear the starter apart.

[Skibane]

Clue: pulled the cable off the battery while it was running, didn't even slow it down.

My nomination for Stupidest Stunt Of The Week...

[bavarian]

My nomination for Stupidest Stunt Of The Week...

It's a valid check of the charging system on older cars but not a good idea on newer models with electronic ignitions. You run some risk of a spark causing troubles but I wouldn't classify it as stupid. I think you're being a little hard on the beaver Ward.

[Cevulirn]

you may wish to check the solenoid switch as well.

[irishone]

I had a similar problem and it ended up being a corroded battery cable connection at the starter.

[Kadmos]

It could be alot of things
Battery
Cables
Alternator
starter
starter switch

Your best bet is to go up to autozone and have the battery and alternator checked free. You can also have the starter checked, but you can do it yourself with jumper cables straight from the battery, if the gear pops forward and turns your probably ok on the starter (may have flat spot, or may not work right under load, but autozone can't test for those things anyway)

First clean up the cables and check for restistance at both ends, cables do go bad.

[RogerLee]

I know the problem is.........Its a toyota! my tundra(2000 4x4) would do something like that but after about a minute or two of trying or sometimes up to about five minutes., it would start. It would do that for a day or two (mostly in the morning) then it will act normal for months. Testing from autozone and napa didn't find any problems, everything was running good while being tested.
Also, if you start to have problems of low idling, clean the butterfly plate of the throttle body or hell, just clean that area every 20-30K miles. The truck's TB hadn't be clean for 6 years and 109K miles and I was really surprise of how bad it was.
Roger

[c4550]

My guess, ignition switch. Try some contact cleaner and see if there is an improvement.

[db3443]

sell car, buy motorcycle :D

[63DH8]

What you described sounds like the cables. If it was the alternator, rectifier, or the voltage regulator, the voltage would remain the same or drop after the engine starts.

With the engine off, check what the voltage is at the battery terminal, not the terminal clamps. Write that down. Now check the voltage at the terminal clamps. Write that down. Now start the engine and do the same thing. Now check the voltage at the starter where the heavy red cable connects to the starter solenoid. Make sure you have your negative wire of your meter on the battery terminal itself, not the clamp. Sometimes the red cable doesn't go straight to the starter. If it doesn't, then follow the cable to every item and test for voltage at every connector. If everything tests out, then put your red test lead on the positive terminal post and test the negative cable where it grounds onto the frame or engine. Test at the cable itself then test where it's bolted onto.

[Skibane]

It's a valid check of the charging system on older cars

True, for anything built more than 50 years ago that was equipped with a generator and mechanical voltage regulator...

but not a good idea on newer models with electronic ignitions.

The problem isn't with the electronic ignition - it's with the entire electrical system. When you disconnect the battery, the alternator voltage regulator no longer sees a stable battery voltage. Consequently, the regulator attempts to compensate for a voltage that is now changing on an instantaneous basis, resulting in wild voltage swings - the perfect recipe for ruining electronic modules, light bulbs, gauges, and just about every other electrical part.

As an auto repair tech, this is a stunt that is almost guaranteed to get you fired, on the spot. On the stupid scale, it ranks right up there with checking for fuel in the gas tank with a lighted match.

[LeftofCentralFL]

Thanks fellas for all the advice. Perhaps the best was not to take the terminal off with the engine running. Pretty much an automotive Darwin Award on my part, huh? Instead of removal from the gene pool, the motor pool.

Not exactly acting logically yesterday. Pretty much in chick mode.

Again, thanks.

-lefty

[Wrangler100]

I didn't know that. Having always worked on cars with the "old fashioned" types of electrical systems and I was thinking you were an idiot for making that statement.

Ooops, sorry. :dunno:

[surf99]

I will tell you what is a chronic problem with Camrys. Starter contacts (in the starter)
Most shops will want to change the starter. If you know of a shop thats does a lot
of Toyota work, they will be familier with this. For sure, check all connections, (battery,
ground, statrter wires). But, I bet it's the contact points in the starter. Mine did
it, when I had a Camry. My Mothers did it about 6 months ago, and almost every
one I have heard of has had this symtom if they are 1997 or newer.

[Skibane]

After re-reading my earlier post, I realize that I was indeed being needlessly harsh.

My apologies, gentlemen - Time to go take my tact pill...

[bavarian]

After re-reading my earlier post, I realize that I was indeed being needlessly harsh.

My apologies, gentlemen - Time to go take my tact pill...

This isn't Romper Room, the guy was only asking for help. We're all tough guys with guns we can take it! There is plenty of stupidity in this world that needs to be recognized so just don't overdose on those pills! :)

[weevil]

I will tell you what is a chronic problem with Camrys. Starter contacts (in the starter)
Most shops will want to change the starter. If you know of a shop thats does a lot
of Toyota work, they will be familier with this. For sure, check all connections, (battery,
ground, statrter wires). But, I bet it's the contact points in the starter. Mine did
it, when I had a Camry. My Mothers did it about 6 months ago, and almost every
one I have heard of has had this symtom if they are 1997 or newer.


Bingo!

Toyotas use a Nippondenso gear reduction starter, that uses two bronze contacts, that are conected by a plunger that the solenoid pulls down. This completes the circuit between the battery and the starter motor. One contact always wears down more than the other, the battery one if I remember right, and when the plunger comes down it only hits one contact and doesn't make contact with the worn down contact.

This is the "click" you hear the solenoid pulling down the plunger and it hitting the one contact. A fresh battery or sometimes a jump will increase the voltage and pull the plunger down faster sometimes fast enough to hit the worn contact.

If there's a starter/alternator rebuilding shop in your area they can replace just the contacts for considerably cheaper than a new starter. If not you'll need a new starter.

Corroded battery terminals or a bad battery are usually what cause the excessive wear on the contacts. Be sure and clean up the battery terminals and check the battery's condition or your new starter won't last long before it's contacts wear down too.

[LeftofCentralFL]

Thanks again to everyone with the great advice, especially not to disconnect the running... you know... I feel stupid just saying it. Anywho, I cleaned the terminals, cables, and replaced the battery, and it is starting fine. But, I realize I'm still going to need to address the starter contact issue in the near future.

BTW, I am fairly thick skinned, so don't worry about hurting my feelings by lack of tact. I have four siblings, four kids, three bosses, and a gal whom I've been with for twenty years, so I can take it. Besides, most of my comments are pretty insensitive to begin with.

Thanks Again,

-lefty