Saiga 12 Gauge Reliability

[Jimbob2.0]

Looking into one of these as a home defense shotgun to compliment my Remington 7615P. Anyone have one? How reliable? Anyone get their hands on the 10rd mags yet? Do they feed reliably?

[hugegator]

Mine was 100% reliable, not 1 problem. Mag changes and availability were a separate issue, though. No hi-caps without a 2nd mortgage and inserting a mag under pressure would not be a cool thing to try. I ended up swapping it for a FAL and getting a 870 for a scattergun for HD.

[Bettendorf]

I haven't had any problems with mine. Got a few of them 10 rounders coming. The Makers said they work great.

[spur0701]

I had a slight problem with firing pin protrusion in cold weather (under 30 degrees).....but assume it was becasue I didn't clean it well enough initially.....after I completely took the bolt apart and soaked it in acetone, reoiled and reassembled haven't had a problem. I also had a problem with trigger reset but that was a quick fix and was my fault due to fitting the FCG during the pistol grip conversion. The domestic high cap mags are available soon, see:

http://www.agparms.com/home.php?xid=395ba81c9866c7de3da38cb955bdf2b3

....well, I ordered mine back in June when they were in the development stage and just got an email asking if I still wanted them 'cause they are shipping soon. Mag changes require some practice but can be fast and efficient....a lot of S-12s are showing up at three gun matches because of this........and some people are worried that they'll be calssed as DD by the ATF once these 10 round mags hit the street.

[integratedj]

Mine is 100% with Slugs, Buck, and heavy loads. any quality ammo really.

The only thing it occasionally short strokes on is the cheap birdshot from Winchester and Federal from Walmart.

Mine is also one of my favorite fun guns. Just a hell of a lot of fun to shoot, and the looks from people when they find out its a 12gauge AK are priceless.

I can't wait to get some of the 10rds. I love my 8's, but the Tens are great.

[steelwindow]

+1 to the cheap stuff from Wally World. Mine short strokes on the Winchester value pack but no problems with any quality ammo. There's a vid of a fast 8 rounder mag change circulating on the net that is sub 1.5 sec. He holds the charging handle back with his rt hand, removes the empty mag and inserts the fresh one with his left while the bold is still held back, then releases the bolt. It's pretty smooth.

[Jimbob2.0]

Thanks guys. I got some interesting feedback, my gunsmith and family friend(who is also an FFL) is less than impressed with these and has serviced several for feed problems and curses and swears everytime he sees one. Basically he says the Russians got it right with the steel and brass cases but dont know what to do with a shotgun. I know from work he has done on alot of my rifles he is very good and knows what he is doing but I dont really understand his beef with the Saiga as I have only heard good things about it (except with cheap ammo as noted). I buy all of my guns through him at "small" dealer wholesale and he wont even sell me one because he doesnt want to see it back for service.

Being an old AK fan who has had no problems with any AK based gun (even the cobled together CAI MISR) I find this all a little hard to swollow.

[kahrak]

Haven't had any problems with mine. I cycled 100 rounds of cheap birdshot through it the first time I took it out shooting without a single malfunction. It has 2 gas settings and if you make sure its on the low power setting for weak loads, and the high power setting for buck and slugs you should be fine. I got three 10 round mags in the mail last week but I wont be able to test them until I get my shotgun back from being converted by Tromix.

[Price001]

Thanks guys. I got some interesting feedback, my gunsmith and family friend(who is also an FFL) is less than impressed with these and has serviced several for feed problems and curses and swears everytime he sees one. Basically he says the Russians got it right with the steel and brass cases but dont know what to do with a shotgun. I know from work he has done on alot of my rifles he is very good and knows what he is doing but I dont really understand his beef with the Saiga as I have only heard good things about it (except with cheap ammo as noted). I buy all of my guns through him at "small" dealer wholesale and he wont even sell me one because he doesnt want to see it back for service.

Being an old AK fan who has had no problems with any AK based gun (even the cobled together CAI MISR) I find this all a little hard to swollow.

The only feed issues was when i switched from high brass turkey loads to cheap bird shot. But I was bump firing : )

[gun papa]

Mine gobbles that Wal Mart cheap shit up like its candy. No problems. I have to retrain myself on how it shoots after the PG conversion. I seem to have been a more consistent trap shot in the sporting configuration. But a badass defensive shotty if ever there was one. Those ten rounders are clubs in themselves. A 7 rounder would have been fine for legnth. papa

[integratedj]

Man, Not to slam a family friend, but unless a huge batch of defective S12's came though (which hasn't happened, it would be all over the net if it did), I think your smith is either very unexperienced with Saiga12's and AKs in general, has a probem with any shotgun that isn't a high priced Benelli or other high end piece, or, has a lot of Customers that try and use really cheap crap (like the Wally world bulk packs) and experience gas system trouble due to that, or they never clean their gas system


Saiga12's Dominate, and I mean fucking outright Dominate all other Shotguns in 3 gun and other shotgun matches.

Seriously, if you get one, feed it decent ammo, and remember to clean out the gas system, and not lube it, it will be great. The only issues I have ever seen with Saiga 12's are ammo related, aside from One S12 that a buddy got that had no gas port holes drilled in it.

If you are ever in AZ, hit me up, and I'll take you out with mine so you can see what I mean by flawless. Perfect function/reliablility, great accuracy, sinister looks when converted, what more could one ask for in a Shotgun?

[hoplo74]

1800 shells, from wally world 100 rds packs and no cleaning yet, haven't had any failures. Mine shoots the 2 3/4 shells on the 3 inch setting too so I never have to change the gas setting.
I have shot bulk pack from federal, win and rem, the rem do better at longer ranges on the clay birds.
Hope this helps.

[Jimbob2.0]

Honestly I wonder he has done some great work on alot of guns for me but I think there is a bit of "snobbery" in favoring guns with extremely good tolerances. While I trust his judgement that the Saiga's arnt particularly serviceable if they are "f'd" up beyond the basics, but given his small sample I cant believe they are all junk. I have had enough AK's (SLR95,56s,MISR) to respect the weopon more than any other, just never a shotgun based on the AK action.

I will probably just pick one up somewhere else. As much as I enjoy ordering "wholesale" through a friend (trust me it really is at least "small dealer" wholesale.

[integratedj]

Look at the ones from Tromix (http://www.tromix.com) before you buy. Tony does awesome work on Converted guns. Also, FBMG (http://www.fbmginc.com/) has Unconverted guns is stock, as well as Tromix Conversions. Really good people to deal with over there.