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View Full Version : Awesome Mosins at the show Saturday


NC_Rebel
12-16-2001, 12:42 PM
Yesterday at the Winston-Salem gun show I saw a couple interesting things. There was the usual over-priced FAL's and AR15's, $400 SAR's, also quite a few C&R's (many beat up almost beyond recognition). I passed over a table that had a half dozen abused Enfields of various makes, three or four horribly neglected Turks and four Carcanos that were ugly enough to scare the willies out of Freddy Kruger. At the far end of the row I saw the unmistakable shape of several M91/30's so I shuffled on down to check them out. There was the usual selection of Mosins, some looked good, others had long ago seen the best days of their lives. Then I saw something that made my jaw drop. Guys, this dealer had a beautiful M91/30 with original PU sniper scope and mount. There wasn't one blemish on the stock, the crest and date stamp (1944) was still on the scope and all the numbers matched. I just had to talk to the dealer about it. He told me he bought it at an auction. It came from a private collection in eastern Tennessee. I'm not kidding guys, this thing was gorgeous but way out of my price range. :(

On the same table, I saw something else that I knew you guys would find interesting. I make a habit of looking at proof marks just in case I happen to find something unusual. Well, I found something I had seen only on the internet but never in person: a M91 Dragoon Rifle. It was stamped 1928 and I think it was made at Tula (definitely not Izhevsk). The bolt didn't match the other numbers, a hunk of stock was missing from the forearm just behind the front sling swivel and there was no cleaning rod. Upon further inspection, I saw where some MORON had attached and later removed a scope mount. There was a long strip of wood that had been cut out of the stock on the left side just below the receiver. Somebody replaced the missing strip with a piece of wood that didn't even match the stock. Maybe something really bad happened to the MORON who mangled this gem (we can only hope). Dealer wanted $150 but I could probably have talked him down a few bucks. I passed it up due to the bad condition of the stock. At least now I can say I've handled one. :D

zouavexx
12-16-2001, 01:27 PM
NC,

You are quite the wordsmith! Your description of the gun show had me rolling on the floor..........

I would have liked to see th M91 Dragoon. Does anyone have a picture of one?

REDSTAR
12-16-2001, 03:28 PM
Out of curiosity- how much was the Sniper model?

NC_Rebel
12-17-2001, 08:08 AM
Zou, I try. :D Sorry, no picture.

REDSTAR, the dealer was asking $1000 for it.

Schuetzenman
12-17-2001, 09:10 AM
:eek: $1,000 for a 91/30 sniper! Seems at least $300 too high! Was the show still in the Hocky rink?

NC_Rebel
12-17-2001, 09:44 AM
Schuetz, it was in the Education Building annex beside the rink. I was there from noon to four. Seemed pretty busy, especially around the Century, Classic and Ace Case tables.

Ezra Coli
12-17-2001, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by NC_Rebel
...Upon further inspection, I saw where some MORON had attached and later removed a scope mount. There was a long strip of wood that had been cut out of the stock on the left side just below the receiver. Somebody replaced the missing strip with a piece of wood that didn't even match the stock. Maybe something really bad happened to the MORON who mangled this gem (we can only hope).

Sounds like a converted dragoon, ex sniper. It was common to drill and tap the receiver for the scope and then weld over the holes when no longer needed. You can usually still see the holes from the inside of the reciever. The strip of wood on the side is an arsenal repair, very common for ex-sniper and sometime not matching. I have several ex-Dragoons with hex receiver, 1920's dates, and welded over sniper scope holes. Its not very uncommon. Century's last batch of 91/30s apparently had more than average.

Is yous like this? The top one in the following pic is an arsenal repaired ex-sniper, hex receivered gun, commonly called a "converted dragoon".

http://fs3.dotphoto.com/MemberImages/203264/i4C2E3AF1-EE85-4650-B999-78365F79C5DB.jpg

Sorry for the bad pic, its the best I could do...

neilwest
12-17-2001, 05:50 PM
1. Damn this is like looking at Playboy. Love those images. I want one too;)

NC_Rebel
12-18-2001, 10:55 AM
Ezra, it did look like the top one in your pic there. So you mean that hack-job was probably done at the arsenal? No foolin'? Man, remind me to never hand a perfectly good rifle and a small saw to an ignorant peasant! :eek:

Ezra Coli
12-18-2001, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by NC_Rebel
Ezra, it did look like the top one in your pic there. So you mean that hack-job was probably done at the arsenal? No foolin'? Man, remind me to never hand a perfectly good rifle and a small saw to an ignorant peasant! :eek:

Yeah, the repair was standard for ex-sniper weapons. If you look inside the reciever (take the bolt out) you should see signs of four bolt holes. If thats the case, then your gun is indeed an ex sniper. Another common repair was to the heel of the buttstock since they often split.

What arsenal mark is it? Izhevsk marking on most hex receiver guns was a bow with an arrow, but the bow is not drawn taught. If there is an intact Czarist crest (double headed eagle type thingie) on the receiver top your gun is worth more- usually these crests were overstamped with the communist hammer and sickle though.

Here's a typical hex receiver converted dragoon:

http://fs7.dotphoto.com/MemberImages/203264/iE1F47A25-8F27-4226-8C9D-6355CC574472.jpg

and another pic...

http://fs4.dotphoto.com/MemberImages/203264/i977AB180-D06D-415E-AE9D-0D259972140D.jpg

NC_Rebel
12-18-2001, 12:57 PM
As best I can remember, there was only the Soviet stamp, no Czarist markings. It wasn't an Izhevsk rifle. The proof looked like this (from mosin-nagant.net):

http://www.mosin-nagant.net/tuladragoon.jpg


I beginning to wish that I had bought it. :(