C & R Carcano Carbine

[neilwest]

1. Just picked this up today. I cleaned up really nice. Hope to find some ammo to try her out soon. What do you think?

2.

[neilwest]

1. This is a bit better of a picture.

[zouavexx]

It looks really nice. What kind of wood is that, it has a really nice reddish finish to it.

[neilwest]

1. It has been refinished by someone who apparently stained her in red mahogany. Thats why I liked it, my favorite color.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

That is actually a 91/38 Short Rifle, just like the one I got yesterday.

Did you get it from an auction? Is it 6.5mm? What's the arsenal mark on top of the chamber? year?

[neilwest]

1. It is stamped above the site cal 6.35. The serial # QB9152 ends in 52 so I assume it is a 1952? and the only other marking is a 940 X VII and a name Gardone VI.

Im glad you got me straight ont the type. See if you can help me out on the arsenal.

2. I feel bad because I wasnt to kind to these rifles on the last thread but now I see it, it has beautiful wood and is definitely worthy of collection.:D

3. The gundealer I go throught knows my weakness for curios and military weapons. He finds one and holds them for me to look at. He got it on a trade in and sold it to me for $50.00 as he says its to hard to sell without a source of ammo.:D

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Originally posted by neilwest
1. It is stamped above the site cal 6.35. The serial # QB9152 ends in 52 so I assume it is a 1952? and the only other marking is a 940 X VII and a name Gardone VI.

Im glad you got me straight ont the type. See if you can help me out on the arsenal.

2. I feel bad because I wasnt to kind to these rifles on the last thread but now I see it, it has beautiful wood and is definitely worthy of collection.:D

3. The gundealer I go throught knows my weakness for curios and military weapons. He finds one and holds them for me to look at. He got it on a trade in and sold it to me for $50.00 as he says its to hard to sell without a source of ammo.:D

OK, it's Gardone arsenal, dated 1940 - which is the fascist year XVIII. The fixed sight should say either 6.5 or 7.35. Mine is Terni arsenal, 1940 and has the crossed barrels accuracy mark right below the serial number stamped on the barrel. Can you read the cartouche stamp on the left side of the buttstock, or the serial number?

The Carcano took a very bad rap after the Kennedy assassination. Most I have owned over the years have been just as fun to shoot and collect as any Mosin I have owned and about as cheap. I like the Carcano Mannlicher style bolt action better than the Mosin, though.

But to dispell alot of bonehead rumors (since 1963), rest assured, they do not blowup and are actually quite accurate. That Carcano website I gave you in the other thread dispells alot of the hot air hovering around the unjustly misaligned Carcano.

Both our rifles are the exact model that Lee Oswald bought from Kleins in 1963, btw.

[neilwest]

1. You have shed a whole nother light on this gun. I found a cartouche under the serial # stamp on the receiver. I looks to be a crown over a cross or the axe and wheat bundles which depicted Facist Italy in the 40's. The butstock has the same QB 9152. This is awsome.

2. I dont care if I ever get ammo for her, to me she rounds out a WWII collection which she belongs a part of.

3. Thanks for peeking my interest in them and helping me with the info.

[neilwest]

1. Hard to get that close but you get the idea of where and what.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Can you get an overhead shot of the top of the chamber and the top of the rear sight?

Does your bolt have a serial number? Is there any stampings in the upper barrel, in front of the bayo lug?

You need to post all this over at the Italian rifle website I posted in that other thread. There are Italian folks there that know all there is to know about Carc's.

I'll research to see if I can see what that is below the serial number.

Well, if the serial number of the stock matches, then the cartouche is the official stamp of the VT Gardone Arsenal. I can't even read mine damnit!

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Here's a pic of a Terni arsenal Cartouche which was posted by Francesca (an Italian guy I would think) at the Tucos Italian Weapon Forum.

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/Public/Uploads/Post-15-1127-91_38_sf_stock.jpg

Here is the thread where I am talking about my 91/38 (I post as Moschetto over there).

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=15&TID=1123&SID=753276

[neilwest]

1. I pulled out my glass. The top of the rear sight just read Cal. 6.5, but under the turn bolt you can see the same cartouche as on the receiver I tried to post. Serial number not seen, but the buttstock shows signs faintly of the same cartouche also just above the QB 9152. The idiot that refinished it must have sanded it down to where you can barely see it with a magnifying glass but I see the circle and top part which looks like a crown.

[neilwest]

1. Heres a pic of the stock. You can see the outline of the cartouche above the slinglug.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

OK, if it is 6.5, then you have a M 91/38, just like mine. The 7.35's are called plain M38's I have come to learn. Your rifles is officially called the M91/38 Fucile Corto (Short Rifle), and is slightly longer than the Moschetto (Carbine), but not as long as the Fucile (Rifle).

Here is where you can learn about all the models of Carcanos:

http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armisrc.htm



Here is where you can learn about the metal markings:


http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~glibera1/carcano/changes.html

And here is Giatone Libertore's research database that he and Richard Hobbs (author of The Carcano) are developing on M 91/38's which are owned by fellow collectors. Feel free to add your data to this database.
Note all the other 91/38's from VT Gardone - these are sorted by Arsenal, by serial number, btw.

http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~glibera1/carcano/database/m91_38.html

[neilwest]

1. Just off the cuff I pulled open the buttplate and found three part cleaning rod inside. I got them stuck and had to take the buttplate off to get them out. On the back of the plate was the cartouche as on the stock. Also another cartouche with the letters ZL or 2L in it. I assume that was an inspector.

2. Just got back from your PM. You got it.

[zouavexx]

HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin



3000 posts!

Congratulations! From the C&R forum!

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

http://www.koelle.dk/pictures/8.jpg

http://www.koelle.dk/pictures/oswald-orders-riffle-from-kleins-sporting-goods.jpg

Since you too, now own maybe the most infamous rifle in American history, you might find some of this interesting.

Here's some interesting websites about Oswald's M 91/38 (which was a Terni 1940, btw):

http://jfkresearch.freehomepage.com/c2766.html

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/scope.htm

http://www.geocities.com/whiskey99a/carcano.html

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Originally posted by zouave
HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin



3000 posts!

Congratulations! From the C&R forum!

Thanks!

Gorsh, I'm embarasked!:D :o

[neilwest]

1. I have noticed in most pics that there is a small lug extending below the barrel. Mine doesnt have this, was this a bayonet log that has been removed or was it a cleaning rod? Inquiring minds want to know.:wave:

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

It looks like yours is missing the bayonet lug.

Numrich Arms used to carry a bunch of Carcano parts, but you might better ask that question on Tucos Italian Weapons forum.

I'm sure the guys there know where you can get one.

Still, you have a really nice example of a 91/38, one of the best i've seen.

[neilwest]

1. Thanks I'll try to surf numrich guns and see if they have one first.

2. I will also try to post picture.

[neilwest]

1. Numrich didnt have the bayonet lug but I did post on the Italian Network you gave me. See what happens.

[neilwest]

1. next

[neilwest]

1. Still not getting it but at least you have the pics.

[neilwest]

1. Last one before the forum shuts down

[neilwest]

1. goodnight

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Thanks for posting all those!

BTW, I found out that Gardone 91/38's are somewhat rare. I'd say you got an absolute steal at $50.

[neilwest]

1. I would have never given it a second thought if you hadnt defended them in your thread. I am very happy with it and appreciate your help.

2. Keep an eye out for that Bayonet Lug for me:D

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Well to be honest, even though I owned three of them over the past 20 years at various times, I too was pretty much brainwashed by the unjust bad press that I have heard about them over the years, even though I never had any of the problems people (who probably never even shot them) were spreading as "truths".

Alot of what I have read on The Carcano Homepage has me not only rethinking how boneheaded some of those rumors were, but even caused me to get interested in them again. You should read this page:

http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~glibera1/carcano/general.html