AR 10 Jamming

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

Has anyone had problems with Armalite AR 10 jamming? I have a new one that only shoots a couple of rounds then jams, regardless of magazine size or type. :wtf:

[M700Police]

What kind of jam are we talking about here? What exactly happens?

Have you tried detail cleaning and lubing the weapon?

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

What kind of jam are we talking about here? What exactly happens?

Have you tried detail cleaning and lubing the weapon?

Maybe I should have said "feeding"... usually round #3 doesn't make it from mag to chamber.

[Schuetzenman]

Maybe I should have said "feeding"... usually round #3 doesn't make it from mag to chamber.
And you say this happens with every magazine you have. How many magazines are we talking; 2, 3, 4 or more? I find it odd that it will feed off rounds 1 and 2 but not 3. The ability to feed rounds 1 and 2 tell me two things; the first is that the buffer spring has enough energy to strip rounds from the fully loaded magazine. Next it tells me that it can feed rounds from either side of the magazine which should it not would be a symptom possibly of the mag sitting too low in the mag well. A round 3 failure to feed has me stumped.

Have you altered the number of rounds in the mag to see if the feeding issue still follows a 3 rd round feed issue or does it now move to round 2?

As a last resort you might try tweaking the feed lip on the side it's not feeding from. Only tweak the last 1/2 inch or so at the front to let the round angle up a bit more to present the bullet to the chamber better. Probably less than a 1/16 of an inch is all that will be required, a little goes a long way.

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

And you say this happens with every magazine you have. How many magazines are we talking; 2, 3, 4 or more? I find it odd that it will feed off rounds 1 and 2 but not 3. The ability to feed rounds 1 and 2 tell me two things; the first is that the buffer spring has enough energy to strip rounds from the fully loaded magazine. Next it tells me that it can feed rounds from either side of the magazine which should it not would be a symptom possibly of the mag sitting too low in the mag well. A round 3 failure to feed has me stumped.

Have you altered the number of rounds in the mag to see if the feeding issue still follows a 3 rd round feed issue or does it now move to round 2?

As a last resort you might try tweaking the feed lip on the side it's not feeding from. Only tweak the last 1/2 inch or so at the front to let the round angle up a bit more to present the bullet to the chamber better. Probably less than a 1/16 of an inch is all that will be required, a little goes a long way.

Have stock 10 rounder + a spare, and 2- 20's all bought new.

My boys were shooting it recently, and they said it was doing it at random, so now I am really stumped. This thing has under 100 rounds through it.

It kicks the round up and jams at around a 45 deg. angle. (this agrees with how it acted right from NIB), except now the kid tells me it has no pattern to it anymore... :wtf:

[RJ Shooter]

Have stock 10 rounder + a spare, and 2- 20's all bought new.

My boys were shooting it recently, and they said it was doing it at random, so now I am really stumped. This thing has under 100 rounds through it.

It kicks the round up and jams at around a 45 deg. angle. (this agrees with how it acted right from NIB), except now the kid tells me it has no pattern to it anymore... :wtf:When you disassembled the rifle for cleaning, did you fully disassemble the bolt? If so, you might want to check to see that the three gas rings are not lined up. All the notches should be away from each other.

If you have a newer AR-10B, you will have a McFarland one piece ring that would not cause this problem.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/McFarland-200_50.jpg

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

When you disassembled the rifle for cleaning, did you fully disassemble the bolt? If so, you might want to check to see that the three gas rings are not lined up. All the notches should be away from each other.

If you have a newer AR-10B, you will have a McFarland one piece ring that would not cause this problem.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/McFarland-200_50.jpg

It's a new one, but haven't torn her down yet. I will check that for sure though.

Keep the tips coming though, I will use all the info. I gather when this thread dies to figure it out.

Thanks! RWJ :big:

[RJ Shooter]

To me it sounds like a gas ring issue, or possibly an extractor issue. Those two are almost always the culprits in these types of function problems.

But I could be wrong...

[der henker]

Dump the junk and buy a M1a-ar10's are the same headaches that ar15's are.

[M700Police]

Very informative response there. :rolleyes:

Check the carrier key while you have the weapon apart...make sure it has not come loose and there are no obstructions.

[RJ Shooter]

Maybe we should post some of the M1A problem threads from this week... ;)

[der henker]

I'll bet there are not as many problems with m1a's as made by mattel junk. Ive had them all-ask any vietnam era vet that has had experience with both-I've never heard one complaint about the m1a.

[RJ Shooter]

Blah blah blickety blah....more bad 'Vietnam' juju...

We must have a rotten government to still supply the same weapon to our troops 40yrs later. And those poor SOCOM forces that get to choose what weapons they use, still pick M4s, Mk12 Mod 1s and even the itty bitty Mk18 Mod 0s for their preferred weapons... Silly Trident wearing Squids...

Four posts this year, and this is the best you can do to contribute to this site?

:rolleyes:

[l921428x]

now now shooter, be nice its not the number of posts, its the entertainment value.
which i agree there was not a whole lot of.

[Blacksmith]

I’ve had similar problems with my bushmaster.

What I did is as follows.

#1 don’t use that crappie wolf ammo.

#2 keep it clean.

#3 Keep it well oiled.

#4 make sure the gas tube is clean.

I think my main original problem was the ammo But mine gets real finicky if I don’t take care of it.

Good Luck and let us know how it turns out.

[der henker]

Are you discounting vietnam veterans views? Maybe you have a whole lot more savey than those has beens huh?

[Schuetzenman]

Are you discounting vietnam veterans views? Maybe you have a whole lot more savvy than those has beens huh?
Dude you're not going to last long on Gunsnet with your attitude. Today's AR series of rifles are quite a bit improved over the Vietnam era weapons and most of those problems were that they tested and approved the rifle with extruded IMR series ammo then went to Ball powder coated with calcium carbonate which is crushed limestone to act as an anti-caking agent for the powder. Burned powder and crushed stone don't make for a happy cycling anything.

On M1A's having problems, recent Springfield Armory rifles are having problems. Go this thread in the .308 forums and read about a guy having to send his brand new rifle back! http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2976831#post2976831
Lastly if you dislike the AR type weapons soooooooooooo much wtf are you doing posting in the forums? Sounds like a Troll to me and I love slaying Trolls, my Supermoderator powers are itching to flush a Troll down the drain permanently. You tread on thin ice bucko, so change your tune or move along.

[der henker]

Ok you win

[parabellum]

not that i want to hijack the thread, and I do agree that der henker response was reeealy helpful,....something like tel a lady with a flat tire on a highway that if she don't like to change tires she should use a track vehicle!
I am not an AR type lover, but i do like their accuracy potential. The reason I don't love them is that the tolerances are so tight, and the gas system is so fussy. That's way I prefer piston driven and loser tolerances.
Ok I don't know if my reply helped anybody......

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

Guys.... I want some help with a problem in a new rifle, thats it.
Keep me outta the drama on this one, I'm just looking for an answer that fixes it.
All help is appreciated.

[RJ Shooter]

Joe, we just hate when someone comes into a forum they obviously hate, and slam "you" for a weapon you chose. That's not cool, nor fair to you... It's basically trolling!

We got your back brother! ;)

[M700Police]

Guys.... I want some help with a problem in a new rifle, thats it.
Keep me outta the drama on this one, I'm just looking for an answer that fixes it.
All help is appreciated.

Completely agree....let's keep the trolling to a minimum and the thread on target.

Well, you have some suggestions here. Please apply some of them to the problem child and keep us posted on how she works out. :)

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

Joe, we just hate when someone comes into a forum they obviously hate, and slam "you" for a weapon you chose. That's not cool, nor fair to you... It's basically trolling!

We got your back brother! ;)

Thank you! :big:

[Schuetzenman]

So RWJ what brand / type of ammo are you attempting to shoot in this AR-10, inquiring minds want to know. ;)

The detail you added about the 45 degree high angle to the round sounds almost as if they are popping out too early. What I suggested about tweaking the feed lips open a bit may actually be the wrong way to go with it, you might need to fold them down a tad at the front possibly. Anyway I await your reply.

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

So RWJ what brand / type of ammo are you attempting to shoot in this AR-10, inquiring minds want to know. ;)

The detail you added about the 45 degree high angle to the round sounds almost as if they are popping out too early. What I suggested about tweaking the feed lips open a bit may actually be the wrong way to go with it, you might need to fold them down a tad at the front possibly. Anyway I await your reply.

Got a bunch of surplus sealed rubber packs of them, don't recall what the packs say on them. :dunno:
I am looking at a round right now though that the boys left on the counter after shooting. Looks to be a 150 grain, it is FMJ, has some purple on it, and has 7.62, R1M1, & B81 stamped on it..... Does that help at all? :gruebel:

[7-62bam]

Got a bunch of surplus sealed rubber packs of them, don't recall what the packs say on them. :dunno:
I am looking at a round right now though that the boys left on the counter after shooting. Looks to be a 150 grain, it is FMJ, has some purple on it, and has 7.62, R1M1, & B81 stamped on it..... Does that help at all? :gruebel:

Sounds alot like the well missed & uses to be cheap 308 ammo of S. Africa. I think it is not and ammo issue, as it tend to go bang every time but not hot rounds by any means. The culprit is the AR10, and you may have to go losen up some of that bolt travel tolerance should temporary ease the issue. And also one point to check is the mag locking mech. as it sound as the mag may have drop shifted from the shocks of first few round. Also check the spring for problem in the mag itself.

If all else fail. I would and should have recommend from the start is ditch the AR10 and get a M1A or a Saiga 308. If an AR is really a thing you are after, I would recommend looking for a HK417, that is if they are willing to sell to the civil public. :lol2:

[Schuetzenman]

Yep that's South African surplus for sure given the headstamp. I would concure with Mr. Bam about the mag could be dropping. I've run into at least one AR15 and a CETME that would do that. Shoot ok for a shot or two then the mag would rattle down.

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

Ok, I think the mag dropping sounds real likely as it has no real pattern anymore. I will check that out 1st, and if that doesn't do it I'll keep going on the other stuff.
Thanks guys. -RWJ :thanks:

[Schuetzenman]

Well any progress to report?

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

Well any progress to report?

Not yet, haven't been out shooting, and the kids haven't shot that one since.
It does appear that the mag dropping could be the culprit as I have looked at it after the last post, and it sure seems likely.
I should just pop a 10 rounder in it and dump it out the back door, get a good pic of the jam, and post it.

[Schuetzenman]

You don't even have to do that I think. Look at the catch and observe how it sits in the pocket on the receiver with no mag in the mag well. Then insert a mag into the well and watch it engage the notch in the magazine. If the catch seems to be sticking up a bunch after seating the problem could be the mag catch is out of spec on the male detent that is supposed to drop in the square hole in the mag body. If that were the case it would be easy to understand how the mags are dropping down and then you're getting the jam as you call it. Most jams like this are what I call a Bolt Over, as in the round is sitting low enough the bolt crashes into the cartridge somewhere up the side of the round. The cartridge will often be partially shoved out of the mag and jammed into the face of the barrel extension.

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

You don't even have to do that I think. Look at the catch and observe how it sits in the pocket on the receiver with no mag in the mag well. Then insert a mag into the well and watch it engage the notch in the magazine. If the catch seems to be sticking up a bunch after seating the problem could be the mag catch is out of spec on the male detent that is supposed to drop in the square hole in the mag body. If that were the case it would be easy to understand how the mags are dropping down and then you're getting the jam as you call it. Most jams like this are what I call a Bolt Over, as in the round is sitting long enough the bolt crashes into the cartridge somewhere up the side of the round. The cartridge will often be partially shoved out of the mag and jammed into the face of the barrel extension.

That is about as close to a perfect description as possible without an actual picture.
I think we're definately on the same page. :up:

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

Shot it last night. Since the boys have been shooting it has come full circle to a definate pinpointed problem.
The mags are fine. 2 shots and #3 feeds into #2 casing before it is out. Shoot 2, jam. Shoot 2, jam. Shoot 2, jam..... 40 rounds worth, Identical every time. Gas???
:gruebel:

[Schuetzenman]

Shot it last night. Since the boys have been shooting it has come full circle to a definate pinpointed problem.
The mags are fine. 2 shots and #3 feeds into #2 casing before it is out. Shoot 2, jam. Shoot 2, jam. Shoot 2, jam..... 40 rounds worth, Identical every time. Gas???
:gruebel:
I can't see gas pressure dropping as being the problem. It's South African as I recall and that's usually pretty good ammo, not as hot as Portuguese but way better than Chillean ammo. Still AR10 rifles have a reputation of being fussy in what they'll digest.

Along the lines of the mag dropping. Easy to eliminate that by shooting off a bench and just jamming the gun down on the mag. Use the mag as a monopod with some reasonable down pressure on the mag. It will stay seated all the way in that way. If it runs perfect then you shoot it offhand and it jams, the mag IS dropping some how. See my other post about the mag catch being over spec in size and not seating fully into the mag body's notch.

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

Wife was talking about shooting tomorrow, if we do I'll let you know. :woot
Otherwise it's gonna be a while till I can shoot it again. I was in a bad accident in June and against the wife's advice I shot a bunch yesterday..... long story short, I could hardly get out of bed this morning and stayed home all day. :thumbsdow
I gotta stick to a .22 for quite a while longer I can see. Dammit I hate to admit when she is right. :no:
I won't get any mercy if I do it again!

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

Update: Kinda put this new AR-10 on the back shelf and forgot about it while I was healing up.

Blew the dust off, got out and started dinking around with it and trying different optics. After all was set up as desired, went after the jamming problem with a vengeance.

After much beer and cursing, I finally noticed something odd. 1st off, on field strips & cleaning, I'd find brass shredding on the bolt. :dunno:
I then observed that (after paying very close attention) in every instance the bolt was coming all the way back, losing the cartrige mid-ejection, and feeding the next round into the end of the neck of the spent casing, wedging them both in the rear of the chamber. (spent round flat with bullet of new round jamming itself (and cartrige) at around 45 deg angle). I would then drop mag, pull back charging handle, and drop both spent & next round out bottom with a bit of dislodging.

The Cure: Weak extractor spring! :thud:

The brass was coming off the lips of the rounds as the extractor would slip over it due to the weak spring. :up:

Took a while, but done deal!!! :ywoot

[Schuetzenman]

I thought about this thread several times but noticed you hadn't come back to post on it. Weak extractor spring, well get one of those little rubber D things and put it in there to increase the horsepower on the extractor.

[RIGHTWINGJOE]

:up: If the need arises, I'll do that. Did put rubber in with new spring though.