223 AK mag interchangeability

[Ekie]

This is a post that originally appeared in the Romanian section of AK-47.net. I have expanded on it based on info that was posted by contributors to this thread.

If the Russians would have started production of the 223 AK first, then 223 magazines would have been standardized like the 5.45 and the 7.62x39 mags. Instead most countries that built a 223 AK made up a proprietary mag to go with it. Since there has been constant confusion about which AK mags fit which 223 AK, I decided that we as a group we could clear this up. If your have further information or corrections, please advise.

Norinco:
This mag fits the Norinco 84 series, BWK, NHM 90 and 91. Will fit with slight mods the SAR 3. Common knowledge is that this mag will not fit any of the others.

Polytech:

Only fits the Polytech? d&ts says it will not fit the SAR 3 in an unmodified condition. Dr Strange Love advises that he has/has a Valmet that worked with Polytech mags.

Galil:
Will fit both the Galil and Valmet. I tried to modify one for use in a Norinco with no luck. Members have stated that while the mag may fit a Valmet it may not work on some rifles.

Valmet:
Fits the Valmet and the Galil. Not sure if it will work in a Galil

Wieger:

Will fit the SAR 3 with no modification. blfuller Advises that it will fit the Bulgarian rifle with slight mods. Florgy has tried to get one of these to fit in his Norinco, no luck so far. Will not snap right into a Valmet. I have heard that these can be modified to fit the Valmet/Galil (this is a major modification).

Bulgarian

The Bulgarian mag fits the K-101, and the AK-74M1A1. This mag will also fit the Hesse 223 AK and the SAR 3 with no modification.

There are a few more, but as far as I know these mags are unavailable in the U.S. All of these were made in some quantity before Sept-94.

Russian
Polish
Iraqi
Indian
Yugo



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[Ekie]

This needs updated. Anyone want to take a stab at it? Or I will do it later when I get a chance.....

[halfcocked]

My Valmet M76 works well with a Norinco mag. Only have one now, looking for more. I've also read the Galil mags may not be too safe to use in the Valmet because of a different angle of feed. Hope this helps.

[Sutro]

Thanks for compiling this info, Ekie.

[Flak 2]

Thanks Ekie I musta missed this at AK Net.

[Ekie]

Okay, I have tried another mag since then. The Polish Beryl mag works in the SAR great. The back of the mag needs to be filed a bit so that it will lock in though.

Bulgarian mags will fit and function in a Beryl. They can also be made to "work" in a Vepr II. There is a history of problems with the Bulgarian mag though. At this point I can not isolate it but I think it is due to the mag follower not being brought up fast enough and some "fast guns" will go over a round producing a bolt over base malfunction. There are also many reports of these mags ejection live rounds out the top. Seems the lips are not formed properly. This will lead too double feeds and occasionally a live round will be ejected totally out of the rifle. It seems that the addition of a recoil buffer clears up these problems when using the mag in a SAR 3.

Another note. There are two distinctive categories of 223 AK mags. Some are AK-47 pattern and others are AK-74 pattern. AK-74 mags have feed lips that are closer together then the lips on a AK-47/AKM. While a AKM pattern 223 mag will allow a AK-74 bolt to pass the converse does not work. If trying to use a AK-74 pattern mag in a AK=47/AKM type rifle the lips will need some work to allow the bolt to pass.

The following mags are AK-74 pattern:

Polish
Russian
Wieger

The following are AK-47/AKM pattern:

Bulgarian
Valmet
Galil
Norinco
Polytech

It is safe to assume that the following are also AK-47/AKM pattern:

Iraqi
Indian
Yugo
Hungarian

Never heard of using a Norinco mag in a Valmet. Any mods needed?

Tromix converts both Wieger and Bulgarian mags for use in Valmet rifles. The Bulgarian conversion is rather straight forward and he reports that he has had none of the problems that SAR 3 and Vepr II owners have had.

There is also another mag that is commonly used in 223 AK rifles. The East German 5.45 mag is readily available and darn cheap. This mag is of course of the AK-74 pattern. In the past we 223 fans have had a love hate relationship with this mag. Getting 20-25 rounds to feed was not to much work but getting 30 or 31 rounds to work was a holy grail. Now with the introduction of the Vepr II and Robinson Arms 223 follower it is a reality. Robinson Arms will convert your mags or you can buy the followers and do it yourself. I have asked TMAN to describe this process. These converted mags work in the Vepr II, the SAR 3 and I am not sure about the Norinco. Of course this modification could be done to other 5.45 mags.

[JojoSAR]

I would advise that fitting and safely working is two seperate issues. you might want to perform a simple test after you fill your mag and put it in the weapon, cycle the action and eject the cartridges and check for dents, unseated bullets, bullets pushed back in the case and creases. If all looks good then fire a round and manually eject the follwing round and look again for trouble signs. I would do this for atleast a mag full till I was sure it was feeding correctly. In valmets firing Chinese mags there was a tendency for the bullet to be pushed back in the case which can cause extreme high pressure.

[Ekie]

You are correct that there is a big difference between fitting and actually working. Note my careful choice in phrasing above.

Again this is an attempt to gather info. Once I get more contributions to this I will repost in a more organized and clear manor for reference.

[halfcocked]

Thanks for the info about feeding. I have fired a number of rounds through the Norinco mags and haven't noticed any problems, but I'll have to check closer for any problems next time I take it out (After I can find a firing pin for less than $50). :rolleyes:

[Yogi47]

Where would one readily find the east german ak-74 5.45 mag...and at what price...I wouldn't mind having some steel mags for my Romak. Thanks in advance.