EBR other than AR

[rich52us]

I'm interested in opinions about 5.56 (or multi cal) defensive carbines other than the AR. I'm not interested in discussing the pros & cons of direct impingement v. piston, but I am interested in handling and ergonomics. Accuracy and reliability is also important. Ease of maint. and availibility of parts is probably important too. I intend to use the carbine for SHTF and carbine competitions.

I handled a Robarms XCR at the gun show this weekend and was impressed by the ergos and it seemed like a quality firearm. Some of the bullpup designs seem interesting. SIG 556 seems too big, heavy and bulky to me. I'm looking for light & handy.

I'm looking forward to your responses, and thanks in advance.
__________________

[Old Grump]

Ruger mini-14 ranch rifle, not a tack driver but it has taken lots of coyotes since 1974 after rattling around inside a pickup truck or back of a station wagon.

[Partisan1983]

There are many out there to choose from.....


AK in 5.56
AR-180
FNC
Galil
AUG
FN2000
HK93
AR/70
Daewoo
Valmet

[Dr. Gonzo]

I shot a Sig 556 for the first time a week ago.

I am FAR more impressed with that rifle now that I have fired one. (Initially, I didn't much like the look of it. Light stamped steel, some plastic.. yech, plastic!)

But I must say, it was one of the smoothest handling fireams I've ever shot.

Light weight, soft recoil (even for .223), operated flawlessly, and pointed like a lazer.

I highly recommend you try one out!

[rich52us]

There are many out there to choose from.....


AK in 5.56
AR-180
FNC
Galil
AUG
FN2000
HK93
AR/70
Daewoo
Valmet

All interesting possibilities. But I'm wondering which ones people recommend and why, and which ones I should stay away from and why. :dunno:

I shot a Sig 556 for the first time a week ago.

I am FAR more impressed with that rifle now that I have fired one. (Initially, I didn't much like the look of it. Light stamped steel, some plastic.. yech, plastic!)

But I must say, it was one of the smoothest handling fireams I've ever shot.

Light weight, soft recoil (even for .223), operated flawlessly, and pointed like a lazer.

I highly recommend you try one out!

The ones I've handled have seemed muzzle heavy and cumbersome.

[Partisan1983]

All interesting possibilities. But I'm wondering which ones people recommend and why, and which ones I should stay away from and why. :dunno:




All depends on how much money you are willing to spend, and which one you personally like the most.


Myself, I personally love the Galil, HK93, Valmet, FNC and Daewoo, and a SIG 550 (but they are priced waaayyy outta my range) but they are still my favorite.

[Schuetzenman]

Things / weapons to avoid ...... yeah anything that isn't widely in current production.

Reliability AK and possibly a gas piston AR. Ease of maintenance, the same.

Accuracy, a good .223 AK or an AR of some sort or the Sig 556 rifle. Sig nose heavy ..... not unless you're holding it by the mag well.

Exotics currently in production would be the two Aug clones and the FS2000 by FN Herstal. I've handled the FS2000 and shot one. Accuracy is good, handling is awesome, I can control maneuvering the weapon one handed easily. Price .... very high. Parts availability, very low. My biggest gripe is no last round bolt hold open.

The MSAR I think it's called is one of the Aug clones and it does have a last round bolt hold open and it can be set up for lefties. I've handled original Augs and they too have very easy handling. Down side to the MSAR is it uses proprietary magazines and original Aug mags I believe don't fit it. So the mags you have if the S ever hits the Fan are all that you'll ever have.

Given the wide spread common as crabgrass nature of the AR / M16 family and the magazines that support it .... I would consider Any AR or the Sig556 or any other weapon that uses said magazine system as a viable SHTF weapon.

[rich52us]

Good info Schuetzenman. The AR mag thing is a big issue, I guess. I don't know why the SIG seems nose heavy to me. I'm not saying I couldn't get used to it. It just seems that the SIG isn't as handy as an AR or some of the others.

Things / weapons to avoid ...... yeah anything that isn't widely in current production.

Reliability AK and possibly a gas piston AR. Ease of maintenance, the same.

Accuracy, a good .223 AK or an AR of some sort or the Sig 556 rifle. Sig nose heavy ..... not unless you're holding it by the mag well.

Exotics currently in production would be the two Aug clones and the FS2000 by FN Herstal. I've handled the FS2000 and shot one. Accuracy is good, handling is awesome, I can control maneuvering the weapon one handed easily. Price .... very high. Parts availability, very low. My biggest gripe is no last round bolt hold open.

The MSAR I think it's called is one of the Aug clones and it does have a last round bolt hold open and it can be set up for lefties. I've handled original Augs and they too have very easy handling. Down side to the MSAR is it uses proprietary magazines and original Aug mags I believe don't fit it. So the mags you have if the S ever hits the Fan are all that you'll ever have.

Given the wide spread common as crabgrass nature of the AR / M16 family and the magazines that support it .... I would consider Any AR or the Sig556 or any other weapon that uses said magazine system as a viable SHTF weapon.

[Schuetzenman]

Good info Schuetzenman. The AR mag thing is a big issue, I guess. I don't know why the SIG seems nose heavy to me. I'm not saying I couldn't get used to it. It just seems that the SIG isn't as handy as an AR or some of the others.
It may have something to do with raw body size. I'm pretty tall, 6'-2" and have a very long arm span. The Sig rifle feels fine to me. I checked balance on one and it balanced about where my A2 rifle balances in front of the receiver. Put a loaded mag in it and the CG moves back to mid mag well.

Nose / barrel light end weapons buck around more under recoil and don't hold as steady offhand. Heavier weapons in general are slower to swing into positon and harder to stop the swing on them, just basic physics really.

Look into the piston AR rifles if that's what feels best to you. Bushmaster has an M4 type carbine that is piston driven. The gas system is from POFUSA's design. Here's a link for you. http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16M4-GP.asp It has the A4 flat top with removable carry hadle design so a Buis rear and an optic can be mounted. The MSRP is high but one can find this rifle for less I'm betting on Gun Broker, etc.

[Partisan1983]

Good info Schuetzenman. The AR mag thing is a big issue, I guess. I don't know why the SIG seems nose heavy to me. I'm not saying I couldn't get used to it. It just seems that the SIG isn't as handy as an AR or some of the others.


Unlike Schuetz, I am only 5'8" but I prefer more "solid" feeling rifles like the SIG 550/551, SIG 556, FNC, Galil, HK93 etc. etc.

Which is probably one of the reasons I prefer MBR's to EBR's ;)


There is nothing wrong with an AR. I think everyone should own one.

They have their pros and cons, just like ANY small arm. Remember there is no such thing as a perfect do all-end all small arm.

In the end they are just tools...


Handle and fondle everything you can, then narrow it down to which ones you liked the best and shoot a few mags through 'em. After that you will have an easier time deciding on which one you like best.

Make sense ?

[Dr. Gonzo]

All interesting possibilities. But I'm wondering which ones people recommend and why, and which ones I should stay away from and why. :dunno:



The ones I've handled have seemed muzzle heavy and cumbersome.
The one I shot was the "Commando" configuration, so it may have had a slightly shorter than normal barrel.