SAR 3 project pics

[Ekie]

Here are some pictures of my SAR 3 project.

<IMG SRC="http://www.zing.com/picture/p4f8dccd5609d7d8337ad9ec5eefb0ebf/ffa30efe.jpg" border=0>

<IMG SRC="http://www.zing.com/picture/p2bfd90357a1dec6b4ae7abb5c8413b67/ffa30eff.jpg" border=0>

<IMG SRC="http://www.zing.com/picture/pa15e3ad1c90fc63e847609ecc583faf3/ffa30f00.jpg" border=0>

<IMG SRC="http://www.zing.com/picture/pb59f5e5714c82b1ab67bd60b6369d7c7/ffa30efd.jpg" border=0>


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[Polyak]

Very Sweet!!! http://www.ak47forums.com/biggrin.gif

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[ED4x]

Looks very nice.

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[backblast]

Who did you have do the smithing. Looks like you put Bulgarian goods on the Romanian receiver.

I had Mike put Bulgarian good on my SAR2 receiver and me likes alot.

Wood looks nice. Do it yourself? What did you use for finish?

Here's a pic of my SAR2 or otherwise known as "Bulmanian AK74"

<IMG SRC="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=916665&a=6681863&p=22678413&sequence=0" border=0>

cya

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[Aardark]

Very cool. That furniture looks great.

AardVark

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[Ekie]

Thanks guys. Good to see you all here. That there "Bulmanian AK74" sure looks dang purdy.

No Bulgarian parts on mine. It is currently and as pictured, a SAR 3 with Soviet butt stock, and hand guards. I also installed one of them their setscrew cheapy US comps. I added this because a “74” does not look right without one. I have a Romanian comp/front sight base that will be installed later.

To get matching finish on the wood I re stained the hand guards. The description of my method is quite lengthy. Once ak-47.net is back up I will find my instructions, and re post them here.

The furniture makes all the difference in the world, does it not?



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[backblast]

The reason I asked about Bulgarian parts is I did not know the SAR3 had the 90 degree gas block. The only ones I had seen had the 60 degree gas block. So this is std, huh? cya

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[Ekie]

backblast

The gas block is 90-degrees on the SAR 3, and it is different than the Bulgarian



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[backblast]

Are they all like that now? I have seen plenty with the 60 degree gas block. Hmmmm, if they made a design change, there might be a SAR3 in the future. Hmmmmm..... cya

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[Ekie]

No they are not all like that.

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[Ekie]

backblast

The block on the SAR 2 is still the old style. The block on the SAR 3 looks alot like the Bulgarian 90 block, but it is not. It actually has a slanted gas vent.

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yer right, ekie. the sar-2 has the akm "transitional" slant gas block...not the first style or the last style slant block.

sar-3's have shown up with slant and 104 "style" block.

as long as the gas port hole is bored thu to a groove (not a land), all is well. the soviets found out that drilling bbl. thru to a land caused bullet deformation and tumbling...causing major problems...in the 5.45 cal., .223 would be similar). this lead them to revise to a 90° drill hole into bbl. and later, a 90° gas block to align with that hole. early "tansitional" gas blocks had an angled drilled hole prior to "core casting" the newer 90° hole in the later gas blocks. see tantal's sight for a great picture history with explanations of derivations and applications. hth's.

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[Ekie]

CAMPYBOB

Had not hear of the slant gas block on the SAR 3, or a AK104 type. Please get us up to speed.

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[backblast]

I have held in my hands a few slant gas block SAR3's but never saw a 104 block. What do you know that we don't oh great swami! cya

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[STEEL CORE]

Ah just what I needed another AK site to goof off on between work, school breaks, lunchtime, and at home. Guess I goof off too much I spend so much time checking out the two AK sites. I found something interesting, took a Norinco Metal 30 rd Chinese mag and put it into SAR-2 mag well, a bit of persuasion like on your prom night, and I got it in there tight. Havnt tried to chamber anything so I dont blow a hole in my home somewhere and I was wondering if it worked in a SAR-2 why not a 3..which I dont have, and will it work with 5.45s in it? Ekie is that a Bulgarian black plastic mag in .223? Where did you find it?!?

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"STEEL CORE" When you want to send the very best!!!

[Ekie]

Hey STEEL CORE

The mag in the pictures is a Bulgarian 5.45. I used it for the photos cause it looks right. The Bulgarian 223 mag is expensive and available from K-VAR. They work great in a SAR 3. The Norincos work in a SAR 3 also. They need a little filing around the rear mag catch to work, as you noticed.

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[teamafx]

I think it's time for me to get a SAR-2, those both look great.

Steve

[graaf4]

Ekie, that Russian wood is sweet! Can you provid eht link to FInnbear? I think you posted elsewhere that is where you got it. Also, I am about to try painting some of my early used bakelite mags black to achieve the same look. Also bought a Bulgarian black mag, but ONLY one (too damn $$$!!)

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[Ekie]

Last I checked he did not have any late style AKM wood. Just the early stuff with the sling swival at the bottom.

http://f-international.tripod.com

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[Templarx]

Ekie, bringing this back to the top...I have a question for you regarding the SAR-3 barrel. I was talking to Panzerschreck today and he is under the impression that the SAR-3 uses a Bulgarian barrel and would not accept the Romanian AK-74 front sight assembly. i had always thought that the SAr-3 took the same AK-74 sight assembly as the SAR-2 did, but he got me thinking.

Well, which is it...anyone? Those Bulgarian AK-74 front site assemblies are too freakin' expensive. The Romanian ones are at least tolerable.

Great pics by the way!

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"For so long as a hundred of us remain alive, we will never in any degree be subject to the Dominion of the English, since it is not for Glory, or Riches, or Honor we fight, but for Liberty Alone which no Good man loses but with his Life."

Declaration of Arbroath 1320.

[Ekie]

Thanks for the compliment on the pics.

Tantal has theorized that the SAR 3 uses a Bulgarian AK-74M1A1 barrel. The Bulgarian 5.56 barrel (as sold by K-VAR) is a unique mixture of AK-74 and AKM characteristics. The barrel is 23mm at the point it is pressed into the trunnion like an AKM, but the gas port is drilled at 90 degrees like an AK-74. It would be quite a coincidence that the Romanians would follow suite, especially when you consider that the SAR 3 gas block does not have a 90 degree gas port to match the port drilled in the barrel. If the Romanians where to make their own barrel for the SAR 3 it would make sense that they would drill the gas port at a point that would allow a standard gas block to be mounted. The barrel on the SAR 3 hangs off the front of the receiver farther then normal because a AK-74 bolt it used with an AKM type trunnion. This means that if a barrel with an AKM gas port location is used it will be too far out, such is the case with the SAR 3. To make up for this a custom gas block was made up. The Bulgarian barrel was turned down at the muzzle to accommodate the Romanian AK-74 front sight base. The Bulgarian barrel was originally threaded for 14/1 left hand thread. Turning the barrel down removed these threads. Jimmy over at the other board has stated that he has seen some SAR 3 rifles with what looked to be shallow remains of the original barrel thread still remaining.

I now have a Romanian front sight base on the rifle pictured above. It does indeed fit.



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[Templarx]

Thanks Ekie...I'm still a little hesitant about the SAR-3...it just sounds so...cobbled together I guess. It just sounds like the thing is being held together with a thread and a prayer. I'm hoping to hear back from Progressive about any 5.56mm kits that they might be bringing in...but haven't heard anything yet.

I'm trying real hard to embrace the SAR-3, but I question the long term reliability of it.

Any more thoughts and/or curses upon my head you'd like to lay on me Ekie?

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"For so long as a hundred of us remain alive, we will never in any degree be subject to the Dominion of the English, since it is not for Glory, or Riches, or Honor we fight, but for Liberty Alone which no Good man loses but with his Life."

Declaration of Arbroath 1320.

[Ekie]

Well, I guess I need to ask you what it is you are looking for? Are you simply interested in the SAR 3 because it is a cheap Kalashnikov that uses ammo that is common with other rifles you have? Or are you looking to build a certain type of rifle. The SAR 3 and the Veper II (more like a RPK though) are the only AK-74 rifles in 5.56 available in the US right now. So let me know and we will pick up from there.

The rifle is a sound set up with the original parts. Century replace the trigger group with US components and that is where most of the trouble started. I am becoming more and more convinced that the rifle was intended to shoot steel case ammo, due to the short headspace encountered with most of these rifles. Looks like I am starting to ramble here, so I will stop. Really need to get this info up on one large comprehensive thread.


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[Ekie]

Okay, I just went back to your last thread about wanting to build an AK-101. If that is your goal the SAR 3 is the best choice for a host rifle. The AK-101 is a PIP AK-74. The Bulgarian AK-74M1A1 parts kits that K-VAR was selling, and Progressive would appear to be getting, are closer to an AKM then an AK-74. The major improvements incorporated into the AK-74 where left out of the Bulgarian rifle. Such features as an improved extractor, longer stronger bolt lugs, and a lighter bolt leading to a better weight ratio between the bolt and the carrier. All of these AK-74 features are present in the SAR 3. As you have probably ascertained the Veper has some issues that prevent it from being a host for an AK-101 project. The biggest being that a large part of the receiver is missing and that it has RPK type reinforcements around the trunnion. The Russian rifle has much more potential in being a good functioning rifle right out of the box though.

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[Templarx]

Ekie...thanks for the info and advice, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I'm really looking to have an AK-101 built up. I would replace the hammer with an original Romanian, and have Informer fix anything else that needs fixing.

Just how important do you feel it is to replace the bolt and bolt carrier with a Bulgarian AK-74? From what I understand, the locking lugs on the SAR-3 bolt are beefier and stronger than the '74, and that is definitely something I'd want on a 5.56mm AK.

Then again, failing all that...if Progressive has 5.56mm rifle kits coming, I'd also consider building one on a milled receiver, just like the Bulgarians marketed their 5.56mm rifles. I watched the Arsenal video that Panzerschreck bought, and all the 5.56mm rifles that the Bulgarians market are actually built on milled receivers.

Decisions, decisions......I like the 5.56mm round, and the availability of cheap Bulgarian 30 round waffle mags from Progressive is definitely made me think seriously about this. I prefer the stamped receivers, and would prefer the AK-101 set up, but would take a milled receiver if I had to.

I mean, who would I be to turn down this... <IMG SRC="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=951120&a=6956509&p=33983051&Sequence=0" border=0>

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"For so long as a hundred of us remain alive, we will never in any degree be subject to the Dominion of the English, since it is not for Glory, or Riches, or Honor we fight, but for Liberty Alone which no Good man loses but with his Life."

Declaration of Arbroath 1320.

[This message has been edited by Templar (edited 11-25-2000).]

[Ekie]

There are basically two bolt head sizes. The AK-74/AK-100 series/Saiga, Vepr/RPK-74, and the SAR 3. The older style smaller locking lugs are used on the AK-47, AKM, Romanian AK-74, Norinoc 84, 56, Valmet, Galil 5.56, Galil 7.62, Bulgarian 5.56 and, well, every thing else Kalashnikov wise.

As far as replacing the short OAL (not short locking lugs) SAR 3 bolt with a AK-74 bolt - I only did this to rid the rifle of the strange hammer over rotation thing, and to allow standard AK-74 parts to be used.

The Bulgarian rifle is a strange combo of AK-47, AKM and AK-74, but with none of the AK-74 improvements to the bolt and carrier.

Sooo clear as mud?

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[Templarx]

Well, it's at least getting a bit clearer... http://www.ak47forums.com/biggrin.gif

So basically you're saying that you don't need to replace the bolt and bolt carrier with a Bulgarian job...and it might even decrease service life if you did this modification?

I don't like the idea of a shorter bolt than any other Kalashnikov and the resulting parts availablitiy issues on the SAR-3, but I do like the idea of a stonger bolt with beefier locking lugs on a high pressure round like the 5.56mm.

All of this is academic, I have to see what Progressive will have available. The SAR-3 would definitely be a less expensive route to go, but then again there is that custom factor....jeez louise, I can't make up my f^*k!n' mind!



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"For so long as a hundred of us remain alive, we will never in any degree be subject to the Dominion of the English, since it is not for Glory, or Riches, or Honor we fight, but for Liberty Alone which no Good man loses but with his Life."

Declaration of Arbroath 1320.

[Ekie]

You are correct the bolt and carrier most certainly do not need to be replaced (they do in my mind though hehee). Actually service life would be increased by using standard AK-74 components. This modification eliminates the over rotation of the hammer. With the original SAR 3 set up the bolt is shorter in OAL so the hammer travels farther thus striking the bolt/firing pin with greater force. This increased force will accelerate wear.

If you are going to build an AK-101 look alike it will be a custom rifle, so there is no escaping the “custom factor”.


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