"Unissued" Russian Nagants Likely Frauds

[TinMan99]

While browsing a local gunshop I noticed three new-looking Russian Nagants. A M38, M44, and a 91/30. All looked to have exactly the same finish on the metal and stocks, interesting in that they were made different years at different arsenals. Everything matched, but on closer examination, there were some errors. First, the bolts where the serial number is stamped, appears to have been ground. This is obvious when looking down at the bolt and seeing how the bolt handle lug area bows inwards near the bolt handle, where the serial number is. Secondly, on some of the bolts, only partial serial numbers were stamped instead of the whole number. Next, the wooden finishes were identical. Three different makes and models, all with exactly the same color and quality stock. Not to mention the stocks appeared sanded, due to the eroded cartouches, and they failed to pick up on the rework diamond stamped on the stock. How can it be unissued if it's undergone rework? The bores were frosted, indicating they were fired some amount, again indicating a used weapon. The M38 had a M44 stock. The bayonet on the M91/30 had a bayonet stamped with the same serial number, oddly the stamped serial number area was reblued, not the entire bayonet, just the lower area where the number is, and it was badly pitted. If it was unissued and the original bayonet, why was it pitted? Buttplates were painted, not blued. Everything about these rifles stunk on ice. Someone is trying to defraud collectors out there. This is the second dealer I've seen with rifles exactly like these. Beware when buying a Nagant that's too good to be true.

TinMan99

[REDSTAR]

Sounds like refurbished jobs to me....

PS- where the %$#* did all your posts go??

[Schuetzenman]

TinMan99,
M39's are purely Finnish versions of Mosin rifles. 91/30's can be either Soviet / Russian or Finnish. No Hammer and Cycle on the barrels and they are Finnish reworks of captured 91/30's, especially if the receivers are round. Finnish MN's are the Octagon receivers on all M39's and earlier models. I do have a somewhat rare Tikka arsenal Fin rework of a Soviet era 91/30 rifle as it has the round receiver. BTW, that rifle is in the post that Zouave did up for me. It's the bottom one of course. LOL!

[TinMan99]

Beats me about the posts. Probably lost them when they went to this new forum software. It's not really important. As for the Finn rifles, I know about them and have some examples in my collection. These were not Finns, but poorly done refurbs. It has me concerned in that this seems to be a commercial operation doing this. Now we can't trust the Mosins being legit. Feh...

TinMan99

[number_6]

Not to mention the beaters that they're putting those poly stocks on. Pulled bayo, black poly furniture. Usually pisspore bores. I've seen three of these at my local for $127 each. They're thick with cosmo, but they look like garbage. I wonder if we're beginning to hit the bottom of the M44 barrel or if it is just some unscrupulous importer/exporter trying to make as much of a buck as possible?

Be seeing you.

[REDSTAR]

I'm bringing this back up, just so people can think about it. The situation TinMan described is exactly the situation my local FFL had with his 6 rifles that he sent back. Hopefully AIM is getting something different.

[sgt rock]

i think what they mean when they say unissued is that they were never issued after being arsenal refinished, i dont know if there are any new,unissued nagants out there, maybe some of the m44 due to being late war/post war, and being put away. Has anyone ever seen or bought a new nagant? just curious, cause id like one!!!!:)

[REDSTAR]

Right, and if they were new, they would go for alot more than $129 :)

My major concern is the bores. I ordered one myself, have to wait and see.

[Original-SSR]

These are not "new" guns for sure. What they are is arsenal refinished weapons. They would receive replacement parts where needed, stocks and metal would be arsenal refinished, headspace checked, and numbers stamped to match. Some like to collect or shoot weapons that have never been arsenal redone, some like them to be true unissued weapons, others don't mind if they have been redone if done by the actual arsenals of the countries that used the weapons. Then there are folks who don't even mind refinishing the guns themselves. All is good if it makes you happy:) These recent Aztec International (0cala?) Mosins have not been reissued after refurbish. Some of the ads out there can be misleading for sure. But it comes to reading between the lines and doing a bit of research before ordering from these impressive sounding ads. I own some C&R rifles that are true unissued weapons (old but totally new). I also own weapons that had previously been issued but in 90%+ condition (what I like to consider "like new"). I have some that have been rearsenaled, but look new. Others have been rearsenaled but were issued back out, they still look good but far from newish. I even have one that I could not resist redoing the wood on. That is something that I myself hate doing (refinishing anything myself). I made my living as a professional wood refinisher for about 8 years of my life before I changed carreers, and even though I did a great job in matching the original look of the weapon, I still don't prefer refinishing a weapon once they have been imported in. Even so, I would not have been happy with the gun if I had left it the way it was. So the moral of the story is different strokes for different folks:) I have ordered one of these "Aztec" rearsenaled Mosin Nagant M91/30 rifles, and will report on it when it arrives. I knew when ordering, even though I could see how the ad could be misleading, that it was a rearsenaled weapon. I just read between the lines. If someone actually found a true cache of new M91/30's, they would fetch quite a bit more than 129 bucks for each one. The Ruskies had one heck of a war during WW2, and there are few M91/30 weapons that made it through that period without being issued out. I myself have wanted to add one of these to my collection, but the condition of the ones I've seen have been a turn-off to me since I like a gun to be in a 90% or better condition (rearsenaled or not). So this "Aztec" import will probably make me happier than a non refurbished weapon in much lesser condition. The M91/30's I've seen thus far have had less than 60% finish on the metal, beat to hell wood, mismatched serial numbers, ect, ect. Now I'm not saying you can't find better, or that these would not make someone very happy just the way they are, but it's just not for me. The whole different strokes for different folks comes into play again:)

[REDSTAR]

I got mine about a week ago and it was well worth the money.

Personally I prefer an arsenal refinish to one that someone in the states has done; it just lends some more authenticity to the weapon.

The bore on my M91/30 was very nice so I was happy.

I've heard alot worse of the Aztec M38's...

[Original-SSR]

Just received mine today, overall I'm happy:) Posted a complete report on the General Discussion Forum.