9x18 has 1/2 the power of 9x19

[webfast]

and the 9mm Luger rd is much maligned as being too feeble, so what is it about the Mak that trips your trigger? It isn't any cheaper than a good used .22, like the Browning Buckmark 4" Sport model, and even at 10c a rd, the ammo isnt anywhere near cheap enough to let you play with it as much as you can the .22. The .22 saves you 7-8c a shot. If you can afford to shoot the Mak much at all, you can afford a 9mm, and if you can't, you might as well have a handy little .22 like the Phoenix Arms HP22. You aren't going to shoot it enough to wear it out, anyway. So what is, the "mystique" of using a gun once used by scum like the KGB, the way some like the Luger because it was used by scum like the Gestapo? I'm curious. The Mak lacks the power to be a serious carry gun, so why bother with a centerfire at all? It's bigger, and heavier than several autos that are considerably more powerful. So it's neither fish nor fowl. It's not as good a learning gun as the .22, not as cheap for the guy with little money, and it lacks any more real combat potential than the .22 has. Both the 9x18 and the .22 will most likely need head shots in order to sop a determined man, either will stop a man who isn't very determined. So why pay 5x as much for the centerfire ammo?

[Gun Toter]

It probably because its a gun once used by our enemies. Also its a great little pistol to shoot with and is generally a smooth little gun. I have mine as a bit of Cold War nostalgia from a defunct country (East Germany). Also, you can get a brand new condition Makarov, that in nearly all cases functions flawlessly, for a very very low price. Sometimes under $100, but generally about $110 to $150. You cant find any new mid size or even compact pistols that are worth a damn anywhere close to that price.

Dont let that "half the power" shit go to your head. It will kill you just as dead. If you dont like it, dont shoot it or use it. Leaves more for the rest of us.

[Russian]

9x18 is comparable (if not hotter) to .380 ACP loads across the board. Anyone who says that you need "headshots to stop a man" doesn't know what he's talking about. I keep a used Makarov in my car as a defense gun. It's sufficiently powerful to do the job. If someone breaks into my car and steals it, I won't care because it only cost me $100. I also have another used Mak and 2 mint unissued Bulgarian Maks. They're fun to shoot and have history behind them.

BTW, the HP22 is a piece of shit. If that's the only gun you can afford, I'm sorry. I wouldn't trust my life to a Pheonix Arms, Lorcin, Raven, Davis or any of the other crap guns if somebody gave me one.

[AK comrade]

So you would rather shoot a gun favored by Crack dealers than KGB agents. Ill op for the Russian though my Glock is the one I would stake my life on.

AK Comrade

[Hoploholic]

Shit, that has to be you Gunkid, Wesley, Begood or dumb fuck by any other name. I was wondering how long it would take you to find this sight. I warn you now. You fuck with people here and you will be sitting in the middle of the library crying and blowing snot bubbles.

If I am mistaken about your name, then I am sorry. Your assumptions are still off base and your attempts at trolling are not very effective or convincing. While the 9 X 18 round is less powerful than the 9 X 19, it is still a viable round for use in a proven pistol design. This is even more true now that we are seeing the heavier rounds like the 109 and 120 gr offerings coming from across the big water. Some people feel safe with a 25 acp, 32 acp or 380 acp. The original loading of the 9 X 18 packs a bigger punch than any of these 3. Not such a bad choice. Then you have people that are not comfortable with anything other than the 45. Its a personal choice, and if someone feels safe with 9 rounds of 9 Mak then so be it.

How ignorant can you be? Ignorant enough to compare a pot metal, zinc alloy framed pistol to a proven military design. While the Makarov may not be the prettiest or fanciest design, it functions on a level that sets the standard in terms of reliability. There are some issues with the manual of arms, but that is a training issue and not a quality issue.

In closing, you have been pulled out from under the bridge and called upon to answer for you statements.


edited to add...originally posted by Webfast in another thread...
What you got against the AR? It's long since proven to be a reliable arm. Do you just SWALLOW all that crap put out by the guys who LOST the war in Nam? :-) They had to blame the loss on SOMETHING, now, didn't they? Like the Feds blaming their 80+ MISSES of Platt on the ONE 9mm Silvertip that actually hit him in the chest.

Scratch that fucking apology. You are Wesley, Gunkid, Begood, Bill2d. The MO is so fucking juvenile as to be unmistakeable. When the fuck are you gonna learn? Nobody gives a fucking rat's ass about a sperm burping troll who has nothing better to do than to use up the public bandwidth at the local library to troll internet discussion forums. Nothing of any value every comes out of that cock holster you call mouth. There has to be a dark corner somewhere where you can go play with the little, twisted worm of yours in private.

[MISRy]

Pistolette Makarova, field tested to the backs of more heads than any other handgun in the world.

[Frenchy]

Besides the obvious collectability of the Makarov (mine being East German), it is a potent enough caliber to be used as a back-up/house/truck gun. I personally carry mine as my off duty piece, and am confident in it's ability to do the job, if I do mine.

[webfast]

the head, or what? You REALLY think a .22 lr to the back of your head won't give the same results? I DO know, and so do quite a few others here, never doubt it, that 38 lhp's, 380's and the Mak rd DO require head shots to stop men. The same is true of a LOT of .45 loads, as has been testified-to by Cirillo and many others. I personally know a guy who lived after taking 11 38's to the torso, and Cirillo wrote up a guy who walked off after taking 11 38's to the FACE. Not ONE of the 7 38 hp's fired into the heads of Platt and Matix actually penetrated their craniums. The only people who "think" that the Mak is a reliable man stopper with chest hits are those with little or no experience at shooting men or animals, with ANYTHING. I've had MANY chucks, coons, jacks, even feral housecats run off after taking a .45 ball rd thru the chest. I would just LOVE to bet a few thousand $ on some animal test results and what you guys THINK are "effective" pistol loads. I've got my money right here, you got yours?

[Led]

A friend of mine has a Phoneix Arms 22. It is so unreliable you would be better off throwing it at a target. As for a 22lr for protection, how many times have you pulled the trigger on a 22lr and gotten nothing more than click.

Later,
Led

[Hoploholic]

If we are going to conduct "mystical goat" tests I insist we start with the lowest of vermin as our first test subject...namely, one troll known as webfast. Still want to put your food stamps up vaginal cheese ball? I will give you $.50 on the $1.

[lordviperscorpin]

"and it lacks any more real combat potential than the .22 has. Both the 9x18 and the .22 will most likely need head shots in order to sop a determined man, either will stop a man who isn't very determined. So why pay 5x as much for the centerfire ammo?"


I've got some serious questions I need answered Webfast. I like your style and need someone with your level of expertise .

First, who is stronger- Superman or the Incredible Hulk ?

Could Arnold Schwarzennebegger kick Mike Tyson's ass ?

Is a lowered Honda with a real cool exhaust just as fast as a Ferrari ?

Oh, and Iagree with you about the .22. You forgot to mention how easily it can be silenced with a coke bottle and some duct taped, but I already figured you knew that. much better for those stealth missions when your packing. Just like what the Speznatz
and Israeli secret police, and my step uncle who was a member of the mob all use.

[Hoploholic]

That's some seriously funny shit LVS:rockin:

[MISRy]

Originally posted by webfast
I would just LOVE to bet a few thousand $ on some animal test results and what you guys THINK are "effective" pistol loads. I've got my money right here, you got yours?

I'm sure you would/do dear. However the only thing that would prove is that you can slaughter animals and the only risk you are taking is if you forget to bring a towel, the wet spot might show through on your jeans.

[jbutenhoff]

Wow! I guess that this kid knows more about this round than the USSR and all of their allies did for the last 40+ years! Good thing that this kid can steer us away from this underpowered round! Hell, what does the former Eastern Block know about weapons. It is not like they spent more money developing weapon systems than food.

Wow! This kid must be a genius.



Jamie

[freebyrd]

ever since janet reno left office she (it) has had nothing better to do than hang out on gunforums disguised as gunkid begood webfast or whatever
do us a favor webfast get a man!
freebyrd

[Hoploholic]

Holy shit Byrd, you hit the nail on the fucking head!!! Webfast is actually that dyke Reno! GRRRRRRRL power!!!

[TinMan99]

Gee, I guess the stupid ass mugger that takes one between the eyes from my pathetic underpowered incapable Hungarian SMC918 in 9mmMak is just gonna kick my ass. God, better get me a howitzer and tug it along behind me on a string when I go for my daily walk. :D

TinMan99

[Beryl]

Actually, the Mossad has used a silenced Beretta 950 in .22 SHORT to zip their enemies. Right in the cerebral cortex. You walk up, lay the muzzle right at the base of the skull, and no louder than a popcorn fart, the fucker falls to the ground with scrambled brains. No noise, little blood, no mess. By the time everyone finds out it WASN'T a heart attack, the agent is long gone.

If all those bigger calibers failed to stop your badass assailants, what is your point? Seems like it won't make much difference either way, so I might as well shoot with something that I can get all 8 shots into a 3" circle at 15 yds. The fact is, "stopping power" is anecdotal. Each person reacts differently. Reagan's Secret Service agent got knocked on his ass by a single .22 LR to the chest. I processed a wet who got shot 7 times by another wet with a 1911 .45. His arm was fucked up, but the torso shots did nothing more than give him a colostomy. It also depends all upon bullet construction, bullet material, each cartridge lot, velocity, material penetrated, etc. Fools who believe that a certain caliber makes them invincible have earned the former title far above the latter. A good hammer in the hands of a shitty carpenter still makes a shitty carpenter.

[lordviperscorpin]

"His arm was fucked up, but the torso shots did nothing more than give him a colostomy."

Nothing more than a colostomy ? Isn't that where you have to shit in a bag ? I'd say that's pretty crappy.

[Hoploholic]

Originally posted by lordviperscorpion
Nothing more than a colostomy ? Isn't that where you have to shit in a bag ? I'd say that's pretty crappy.

Yup, you are talking a whole new bag of shit there. That ain't no shit neither.

[Buster Charlie]

Wolf loads their mak ammo hot, they are 109 grains vs 9mm's 115. 1150 vs 1033 fps It seems 9X18vs9X19 (at least wolf's) is about the same difference between 5.56 and 5.45. Sure 5.56 is a few grains heavier, a little more velocity. But guess what, being shot with eather will ruine your day!

Yeah those commie rounds arn't as powerful as our NATO stuff, but guess what, a lot of dead russians, and others, will testifie how useful those worthless commie guns are.

[Makarovguy]

Personally, I wouldn't want to be shot with ANYTHING. .22 or not.

Given a choice of any handgun, I'll generally stick to a Glock (or two)...
But if I had to rely on a Makarov (and I have before I bought my Glock), I don't think I'd have much of a problem with it.

Makarovguy

[Makarovguy]

I ended up on the IZHMASH website. I discovered something interesting.

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/bizon.shtml

Scroll down to the Bizon-2 submachine gun and read what it says about it. "- Bizon-2 - for 9x18 mm Makarov standard and 9x18 mm HI (modernised,high impulse round)"

If my thinking is correct (and if you ask my wife, she'll tell you it usually is ;) ), the 109 grain Wolf 9x18mm ammunition we've been seeing is the "modernised, high impulse round".

My point with all of this: If the standard 9x18mm round is like a .22, the HI round must be like a .25. The same .25 that's in webfast's Phoenix. Since he's confident with that, I guess that makes me confident with my Makarov. :p

Makarovguy

[warshield]

I own makarov's becuse I can.

[Buster Charlie]

Originally posted by Makarovguy
I ended up on the IZHMASH website. I discovered something interesting.

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/bizon.shtml

Scroll down to the Bizon-2 submachine gun and read what it says about it. "- Bizon-2 - for 9x18 mm Makarov standard and 9x18 mm HI (modernised,high impulse round)"

If my thinking is correct (and if you ask my wife, she'll tell you it usually is ;) ), the 109 grain Wolf 9x18mm ammunition we've been seeing is the "modernised, high impulse round".

My point with all of this: If the standard 9x18mm round is like a .22, the HI round must be like a .25. The same .25 that's in webfast's Phoenix. Since he's confident with that, I guess that makes me confident with my Makarov. :p

Makarovguy


Interesting point, Too bad wolf wont make HP ammo fot the mak.. BTW, that SMG receiver looks like an ak

[Makarovguy]

Given my druthers, I'd rather have the 95 grains stuff we used to see a few years ago. I'm not happy with the Wolf 109 grain at all.

[warshield]

Originally posted by warshield
I own makarov's becuse I can.


Oh yea,and I also own a coupel of 22's a 9mm a 380 a 38 police special a 1911 45 a ruger 357 and am working on a 44 mag and a 45 long colt but my bulgarian mak is my constant companion because after about 2000 rounds it has never missed a beat and shoots better than any others I own I am also thinking of getting a PA63 because it is better for conceld carry, OOPS I lied my MKII shoots better but it is too big for conceld carry and its only a 22 and if you think the 9x18 is no more lethal than a 22 you better put the pipe down befor you destroy any more brain cells.

[Buster Charlie]

Originally posted by Makarovguy
Given my druthers, I'd rather have the 95 grains stuff we used to see a few years ago. I'm not happy with the Wolf 109 grain at all.

why's that?

ammoman will 'soon' have

9X18 MAKAROV RUSSIAN H.P.
SEALED CARDBOARD CASE
NEW NON CORROSIVE
95gr. HOLLOW POINT
BARNAUL MANUFACTURE
FREE SHIPPING
Part Number #918-0080

$125-1000 rounds


which is only $5 more than wolf FMJ, so would you people recomend this for a CCW load?

[Makarovguy]

For CCW I've been using CCI Blazer 90 grain Gold Dots. I really like this load. I found a good supply at a really good price. My pistols feed this load better than the Wolf 109 grain.

For practice, I like the older 95 grain FMJ. I think Barnaul is selling it that way. I'm trying to locate some of it now.

I rotate my ammo every four months. Three magazines of 8 plus one up the spout is 25. I have to rotate the one from the chamber out every other week, or the bullet gets set back too far, which isn't cool. So, I figure a 50 round box of Blazers every 4 months, which means my current supply will last me almost five years. I consider this enough practice with my carry load to keep me confident in it.

m

[SLR-95 Dude]

I've carried a Russian Mak for years. I retired my 10mm Delta Elite and my Colt 45 to carry the Mak. For the price and what you get, its the best buy on the market today. Out of the box, mine was hitting black every time. The ammo is cheap and there are various types out there to suit your needs. What other manufacture list a statistic for there "Probability of trouble free use" on there paperwork along the names or numbers of the ones inspecting the gun during manufacturing.

Sure the muzzel velocity or foot pound makes a difference when you hit your target, but what's more important is a "well placed shot". And people who buy high caliber pistols for protection who also never practice with them on a regular basis are fooling themselves. I would reither have my Mak a be able to get off a few decent shots than have to worry about the added recoil or muzzle bounce of a magnum. Sure, I've also carried a 41mag for a while also, but I always go back to my Mak!

You won't fine a more realible gun out there, it has fewer moving parts than most auto, is very simple in design and is absolutely safe to carry, loaded or not. There has never been a accidently discharge recorded for a Mak falling hammer down on the floor.

I shot a pressure treated 4x4 in the back yard several years ago. The Mak went about 3/4 through it, my Special 38 shooting a copper target shot(simular to a wadcutter), hit the 4x4 (dented it about 1/2 down) and bounce back out and hit me in the upper leg. And all it cause was a slight bruise. The 45 went in about the same as the Mak, maybe slightly deeper. Sorry, didn't try it with my 10mm or 41mag.

My twin brother carries a Hi Cap 9mm (not sure of make) and thats the only downfall of the Mak is the number of round available in the clip. But, than again, I can outshoot him every time. We even shot 1/4 and 1/2 inch thick steel silhouettes
and they both did about the same damage or cause them to move about the same upon impact.

The nice thing about the Maks is that they are cheap to buy and make nice car gun. If it gets stolen, you out just about $150 and not the $500-800 for a HiCal gun.

This is one gun that the saying about is "You get what you pay for" is not true.

Oh, there must have been a reason why the Russian and the rest of the Iron Curtain nations choose this weapon, and lets face it, they also have some extreme weather over there and the need a very reliable and dependable gun. But, than again, it make a great nut cracker at Christmas time also.

My Mak is one of my prized possession and I enjoy shooting it as much as my other weapons. I would probably miss my Mak more than one of my other Hi Caliber pistols if it was stolen.



:) :) :D :D :D

[raxar]

why is it people must bitch over the most trivial things, untill you've actually been in a defecive situation with a 9x18 you really can't say how shitty it is. you can kill and elephant with a .22 so how the hell would it be so hard to kill a man with a mak? it's not how powerfull the gun is, IT'S HOW WELL YOU CAN SHOOT IT.

[shwebo]

Originally posted by Hoploholic
the Makarov may not be the prettiest


Hold on a second... I think the Makarov is a fine lookin pistol. And I think more than a few of you out there will agree with that!:D


Okay, I really dont see the cause of all the fuss?????
Let's compare the Mak to a shitbag special .22

Makarov: Around $100, MANY avail. parts, mags, acess. which are inexpensive, no more or less mag capacity, Proven design recognized worldwide as a quality handgun.... the list goes on...

Shitbag Specials: Around $100; parts, mags, acess. are scarce & can be big $$; no hicaps; famous for poor accuracy and not functioning properly; will draw laughter rather than fear in a self-Dfens situation. etc, etc, etc.


So, having compared the two, doesn't it seem pretty cut & dried?
Even if the two rounds are similar in stopping power as said before, why bother with such poor designs and unreliability? Most criminals wont wait for you to clear the jam from your weapon... so lets make sure our head is out of our ass before we start talking, okay? Good.

~Brian :rant:

[Buster Charlie]

mak dosen't have hi-cap magazines. I dont think anyone would consider 10 rounds hi-cap ;) besides I hear nothing good about the commerical hi-cap russians.

That Being said I think the makarov is the *BEST* CCW pistol for people on a budget, and for people who want something 100% reliable.

[JEBSGHOST]

I have a East German Mak
I carry it more than my 45.
Its a very accurate gun. Believe this or not one day we was sighting in my FAL at about 100 yrs and I had a 20z bottle sitting there , I looked at my buddy jokenly and said watch this, I pulled out the Mak and one shot I hit it. I was shocked!!! I was doubtful I would even get close. Talking about luck! Yet I do stuff with the Mak all the time that blows my mind. One night my buddy from Florida came up to visit, we had a few drinks and took the 4 wheel drive down to the creek where my iron targets was, I pulled up with lights on , stood in front of the truck about 20 yrds away and unloaded a clip hitting ever iron target. The Mak Rules! And I bought it for the wife LOL:D

[Kolja]

I have a friend in Russia who can hammer the nails into the log by Mak bullets from 10 m distance. One time he killed a crow which flied upper at 25 m at least. All the lamps on lamp posts around his neiborhood was endured that sorry fate too:). He shot them for 25 m or more.