JamesB
01-15-2002, 04:18 PM
The links to the pictures aren't working but you can view them at: http://community.webshots.com/user/jamesb2000
I have been wondering for a long time what the terminal performance of the various inexpensive 7.62 X 39 loads was. From the posts I’ve seen their performance is erratic at best. People have shot coyotes, deer, etc. with Wolf hollow point and sometimes the animal dropped immediately and sometimes it ran a few miles before expiring. Granted shot placement and other things have to be taken into account but if you take the storytellers at their word shot placement was adequate.
So I decided to try some testing of my own. In Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow’s first book on stopping power they have a chapter on tissue simulants and how they compare to bullets recovered from a live 140 pound hog. 10% ordnance gelatin was their top pick but I don’t have the means to prepare the gelatin and get it to where I can shoot it and still guarantee a consistent test medium.
According to Marshall and Sanow water provides a reliable medium for determining the degree and reliability of expansion as well as penetration depth. In fact many ammo testers use water to validate their results obtained with gelatin.
In my first attempt I headed up to the mountains with an old plastic garbage can full of water. The idea was to shoot down through the open top of the garbage can and recover the slugs. That worked fine for handgun rounds but the second round of 7.62 X 39 split the side out of the garbage can and the test promptly ended.
I went back and started looking around for a suitable container to hold the water and the force imparted by a rifle bullet. Steel 55 gallon barrels were too expensive so I ended up with a 55 gallon plastic barrel sold at Home Depot as a rainwater barrel. I bought the barrel, cut a door in the top that I hinged and put a lock on so I could open it to get the bullets out and keep the water from spraying out every time I fired a round.
That all started mid-summer. I finally made it out with the new barrel on new year’s day. I tried Wolf steel jacketed hollow point, Wolf copper jacketed hollow point, Barnaul steel jacketed hollow point, Barnaul steel jacketed soft point, and PMC copper jacketed soft point. I added the PMC to the list to see how the cheap Russian stuff compared to a leading commercial manufacturer.
I went up to the spot where we go when we want to cut loose and bump and shoot milk jugs. The water barrel was about one third full of water so we could still get it off the back of the truck. We got it on the ground and filled it the rest of the way with water. I stood on the tailgate of the truck and fired down through one of the holes in the top of the barrel while the other was closed with a cap and the door was closed and locked. I fired with the muzzle of my AK about six inches from the hole and about nine inches to a foot from the surface of the water. I found out when I tried it back in the summer that if you are too close you get water all the way back up through the barrel and into the action.
Every shot blew the door wide open and soaked me and everything in the back of the pickup with water but the water barrel held up just fine.
Here are pictures of the recovered bullets. I fired three rounds of each type. You will notice in some pictures there are not three rounds. Some of the rounds tumbled, ripped open and disintegrated. It was impossible to tell which bullet type some of the jacket shards were from.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/19/14/28911914mmNKeKAKNC_ph.jpg
Wolf Steel Jacket HP
The Wolf bullets are boat tail hollow points with open bases. The steel jacketed hollow points tended not to expand or fragment although they occasionally would rip open and fragment. Most of the time, however, they only flattened as they tumbled.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/19/66/28911966iniAUYcLfl_ph.jpg
Wolf Copper Jacket HP
Again, these Wolf bullets are boat tail hollow points with open bases. Wolf – or their distributors - claim these copper jacketed bullets will expand. They don’t. These copper jacketed hollow points tended not to expand at all but, as with their steel jacketed brothers, occasionally tumble and fragment.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/20/62/28912062HplyalrLON_ph.jpg
Barnaul Steel Jacket HP
Barnaul steel jacket hollow points have a spitzer profile and are quite a bit shorter than the Wolf bullets. The jacket is open on the base of these as well. Again, although these fragmented more than the Wolf bullets (2 of 3), performance was inconsistent and they do not expand but tumble and fragment.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/21/33/28912133PshioCHFYZ_ph.jpg
Barnaul Soft Point
Barnaul’s soft point offering is a spitzer profile soft point the same length as their hollow point. Interestingly, these have a steel jacket and are the only Russian bullets of the ones I tested that have an enclosed base. The enclosed base would indicate the jacket is formed from the base up and is probably thinner near the nose. They seem to be designed to expand rather than being a full metal jacket bullet with a hole bored in the tip to make them legal for import.
These seem to be the clear winners of the rounds I tested. All three expanded just as you would expect a good round to. This is a pleasant surprise since, although slightly more expensive than other Russian rounds, they are a lot less expensive than typical commercial ammo. They are also cheaper than reloading.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/22/19/2891221911QEKklgTJ_ph.jpg
PMC Soft Point
These were the biggest disappointment. I expected them to be a benchmark by which to compare the Russian rounds but they stunk! I think I could reload these as they are. They barely look deformed at all other than the exposed lead in the nose being worn off. I had assumed that they would expand like the Barnaul soft points did.
So that’s what I’ve done to date. One gentleman who read my post on another site suggested I try this at 50 and 100 yards. I think I can line boxes with garbage bags and fill those with water to test at longer distances. In the meantime, I’m going to pick up a half case of the Barnaul soft points for my SHTF ammo until I find something better. I’d welcome any comments or suggestions you may have. Thanks for reading.
I have been wondering for a long time what the terminal performance of the various inexpensive 7.62 X 39 loads was. From the posts I’ve seen their performance is erratic at best. People have shot coyotes, deer, etc. with Wolf hollow point and sometimes the animal dropped immediately and sometimes it ran a few miles before expiring. Granted shot placement and other things have to be taken into account but if you take the storytellers at their word shot placement was adequate.
So I decided to try some testing of my own. In Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow’s first book on stopping power they have a chapter on tissue simulants and how they compare to bullets recovered from a live 140 pound hog. 10% ordnance gelatin was their top pick but I don’t have the means to prepare the gelatin and get it to where I can shoot it and still guarantee a consistent test medium.
According to Marshall and Sanow water provides a reliable medium for determining the degree and reliability of expansion as well as penetration depth. In fact many ammo testers use water to validate their results obtained with gelatin.
In my first attempt I headed up to the mountains with an old plastic garbage can full of water. The idea was to shoot down through the open top of the garbage can and recover the slugs. That worked fine for handgun rounds but the second round of 7.62 X 39 split the side out of the garbage can and the test promptly ended.
I went back and started looking around for a suitable container to hold the water and the force imparted by a rifle bullet. Steel 55 gallon barrels were too expensive so I ended up with a 55 gallon plastic barrel sold at Home Depot as a rainwater barrel. I bought the barrel, cut a door in the top that I hinged and put a lock on so I could open it to get the bullets out and keep the water from spraying out every time I fired a round.
That all started mid-summer. I finally made it out with the new barrel on new year’s day. I tried Wolf steel jacketed hollow point, Wolf copper jacketed hollow point, Barnaul steel jacketed hollow point, Barnaul steel jacketed soft point, and PMC copper jacketed soft point. I added the PMC to the list to see how the cheap Russian stuff compared to a leading commercial manufacturer.
I went up to the spot where we go when we want to cut loose and bump and shoot milk jugs. The water barrel was about one third full of water so we could still get it off the back of the truck. We got it on the ground and filled it the rest of the way with water. I stood on the tailgate of the truck and fired down through one of the holes in the top of the barrel while the other was closed with a cap and the door was closed and locked. I fired with the muzzle of my AK about six inches from the hole and about nine inches to a foot from the surface of the water. I found out when I tried it back in the summer that if you are too close you get water all the way back up through the barrel and into the action.
Every shot blew the door wide open and soaked me and everything in the back of the pickup with water but the water barrel held up just fine.
Here are pictures of the recovered bullets. I fired three rounds of each type. You will notice in some pictures there are not three rounds. Some of the rounds tumbled, ripped open and disintegrated. It was impossible to tell which bullet type some of the jacket shards were from.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/19/14/28911914mmNKeKAKNC_ph.jpg
Wolf Steel Jacket HP
The Wolf bullets are boat tail hollow points with open bases. The steel jacketed hollow points tended not to expand or fragment although they occasionally would rip open and fragment. Most of the time, however, they only flattened as they tumbled.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/19/66/28911966iniAUYcLfl_ph.jpg
Wolf Copper Jacket HP
Again, these Wolf bullets are boat tail hollow points with open bases. Wolf – or their distributors - claim these copper jacketed bullets will expand. They don’t. These copper jacketed hollow points tended not to expand at all but, as with their steel jacketed brothers, occasionally tumble and fragment.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/20/62/28912062HplyalrLON_ph.jpg
Barnaul Steel Jacket HP
Barnaul steel jacket hollow points have a spitzer profile and are quite a bit shorter than the Wolf bullets. The jacket is open on the base of these as well. Again, although these fragmented more than the Wolf bullets (2 of 3), performance was inconsistent and they do not expand but tumble and fragment.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/21/33/28912133PshioCHFYZ_ph.jpg
Barnaul Soft Point
Barnaul’s soft point offering is a spitzer profile soft point the same length as their hollow point. Interestingly, these have a steel jacket and are the only Russian bullets of the ones I tested that have an enclosed base. The enclosed base would indicate the jacket is formed from the base up and is probably thinner near the nose. They seem to be designed to expand rather than being a full metal jacket bullet with a hole bored in the tip to make them legal for import.
These seem to be the clear winners of the rounds I tested. All three expanded just as you would expect a good round to. This is a pleasant surprise since, although slightly more expensive than other Russian rounds, they are a lot less expensive than typical commercial ammo. They are also cheaper than reloading.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/1/22/19/2891221911QEKklgTJ_ph.jpg
PMC Soft Point
These were the biggest disappointment. I expected them to be a benchmark by which to compare the Russian rounds but they stunk! I think I could reload these as they are. They barely look deformed at all other than the exposed lead in the nose being worn off. I had assumed that they would expand like the Barnaul soft points did.
So that’s what I’ve done to date. One gentleman who read my post on another site suggested I try this at 50 and 100 yards. I think I can line boxes with garbage bags and fill those with water to test at longer distances. In the meantime, I’m going to pick up a half case of the Barnaul soft points for my SHTF ammo until I find something better. I’d welcome any comments or suggestions you may have. Thanks for reading.