UT - Bill Would End Gun Payments

[Steven Mace]

Wednesday, January 30, 2002

Bill Would End Gun Payments

BY GREG BURTON
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

Utah doesn't charge a fee to vote, speak or worship, so the state shouldn't charge a fee to buy a firearm, say advocates for a bill eliminating background check fees that won preliminary approval Tuesday.

House Bill 183 would do away with the $7.50 charge assessed at the point of all licensed gun sales in Utah.

The fee covers the cost of reviewing state domestic violence records, a list of outstanding warrants and protective orders and some felony convictions not main- tained as a record on federal databases.

Those checks would continue, but the cost would be shifted from would-be gun owners to state taxpayers in general.

"We find on general principle that it is repugnant to ask law abiding citizens to pay a fee to maintain a database for criminals," said Charles Hardy of Gun Owners of Utah.

"We should not be charging people to prove they are innocent."

On a straight 7-4 party vote, Republicans on the House Judiciary Standing Committee pushed the bill, sponsored by Rep. Morgan Philpot, R-Sandy, to the House floor.

"The concern is who will pay for this," said Bureau of Criminal Identification Director Nanette Rolfe.

"It may take a little longer to complete our other tasks and there is a concern that other programs will have to be minimized."

But constitutional rights that impose a financial burden -- the expense of putting on an election, for example -- are best borne by society at large, not individual users, Philpot said.

"Rights should not be taxed," he told the committee.

"When you stray from that principle and regulate one, you invite regulation and infringement on another."

The measure has been met with some hesitation due to the cost of administering the mandatory criminal checks without fees.

If passed, lawmakers would have to either fund an additional budget appropriation or mandate other cutbacks at the Bureau of Criminal Identification, Rolfe said.

Last year, 65,696 gun transactions produced $492,720 in fees, according to the bureau.

"Despite all the sound and fury . . . the gun owners I know are very individualistic and they don't want to feed at the public trough," said Rep. Scott Daniels, D-Salt Lake City, who opposed the measure.

Philpot's bill would not affect federal background checks, which are conducted in concert with state checks prior to licensed gun sales.

HB183 also requires the Bureau of Criminal Identification to immediately destroy all background checks "if the person receiving the gun is not prohibited from purchasing, possessing, or transferring the firearm under state or federal law."

Currently, BCI has 20 days to destroy the records.

House members delayed debate on a second bill aimed at streamlining the process of obtaining a concealed carry permit, also sponsored by Philpot, until questions over its fiscal impact can be addressed.

House Bill 219 would eliminate the permit fees for people with a concealed carry license.

According to analysts, it would cost the state $1.14 million next fiscal year and $1.35 million two years from now to continue the program without the fees.

Because of the cost, Philpot said the chances of the concealed-carry bill passing " were almost nil."

http://www.sltrib.com/01302002/utah/172034.htm

Steve Mace

[Steven Mace]

Tuesday, February 5, 2002

House committee votes to remove fee for weapons permits

House committee votes to remove fee for weapons permits Over objections of committee Democrats, Republicans agreed to remove the current $35 fee charged law-abiding citizens who take out a concealed weapons permit.

Rep. Morgan Philpot, R-Sandy, already has a bill waiting for House debate that removes the fee charged gun-buyers for a background check. Tuesday, the committee approved his bill that would remove the concealed weapons' fee, over the objections of Democrats and the Bureau of Criminal Identification, that gives the permits.

Philpot's bills would cost the state around $1 million in lost fee revenue (an amount still being debated as to its accuracy). In this cash-strapped budget year, it's unclear if legislators have any extra cash for so-called "money bills" —bills that would cost the state revenue.

Maura Carabello of Gun Violence Prevention Center said Philpot's gun background check bill dealt with the "right to bear arms," but getting a concealed weapons permit "is a privilege, not a right."

The state charges fees for other privileges, like drivers' licenses. In addition, 6,000 out-of-state Utahns have Utah concealed weapons permits, and doing away with the $35 original fee and $10 renewal fee means non-Utahns' permits would be subsidized by regular state taxpayers, said Natalie Rolfe, BCI director.

But Republicans on the committee weren't swayed. They voted to repeal the concealed weapons permit fee, but the bill won't become law unless Philpot persuades other legislators to allocate funds lost in the fee repeal.

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,375006950,00.html?

Steve Mace

[Steven Mace]

UT - HB 183 - Firearm Criminal Background Check Amendment Update

Sarah Thompson, UTGOA: 02.26.02

HB 183, as written, will eliminate the fee for the background check required to purchase a gun. This fee is nothing other than the government charging people to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right.

Rep. Throckmorton is onsidering offering a new substitute that would completely sunset the state BCI checks, and use the federally funded National Instant Check System.

As UTGOA has mentioned previously, HB 183 passed its House Committee hearing and has been awaiting its vote by the entire House. Rep. Philpot planned to uncircle his bill early this afternoon. When a bill is circled, it means its sponsor is waiting until the right time to hold the vote, and a motion to uncircle means that he's ready for the body to debate and vote on the bill.

Shortly after 3 PM today, Rep.Philpot courageously moved to uncircle his bill, despite some apparent opposition. It was important to get the bill voted on today because at the end of the day today, the list of bills will be wiped, and anything not passed has to be given a high priority in order to get back on the list and have a vote before the end of the session.

Sadly, there were not enough votes to uncircle, in part because many people were out in the halls and not voting. Once again, Rep. Philpot showed his true commitment to his bill, and to gun rights, by requesting a Call of the House. This means the Sergeant At Arms was directed to gather all of the Representatives into the House for the vote.

However, even with the Call of the House, Rep. Philpot's motion to uncircle failed by ONE VOTE, with the final vote tied at 36 - 36 with three people absent. Speaker Stephens, who could have broken the tie, was meeting with Gov. Leavitt.

The following people voted AGAINST even considering Rep. Philpot's bill:

Adair, S. Allen, Anderson, Beck, Becker, Beshear, Biskupski, Bourdeaux, Bradshaw, Buffmire, D .Cox, Daniels, Dilree, Duckworth, Fife, Goodfellow, Gowans, Hansen, Hendrickson, Hogue, Holdaway, B. Johnson, Jones, King, Litvack, McCartney, Morgan, Pace, Parker, Saunders, Shurtliff, Siddoway, G. Snow, Styler, Tyler, Young.

M. Stephens, Arent and Moss were absent.

Please let these Representatives know how disappointed you are at their refusal even to consider a bill recognizing that owning a gun is a right, not a government-granted privilege for which you must pay. Contact information is available at http://www.utgoa.org.

Remember also that the Republican platform clearly endorses gun RIGHTS, so the Republicans on the committee are even more guilty than the Democrats. Republicans are listed in BOLD. Rep. Young previously pledged to support gun rights, and Rep. Gowans claims to be "pro-gun".

Rep. Throckmorton's new substitute complicates things a bit. His previous substitute was not drafted properly, and would have kept BCI as an intermediary between the dealer and NICS, which wouldn't have solved anything, and might have made things worse. That is one reason that UTGOA has been recommending passage of HB 183 without amendments.

The new substitute (which we haven't yet seen in final form), will eliminate BCI's involvement in the performance of the background check and have dealers call NICS directly. This has the advantage of streamlining things for the dealer and purchaser, and also saves the people of Utah the $500,000 that is currently being spent on the current system.

Obviously we don't, and wouldn't, oppose such a strongly pro-gun proposal. Our only concern is the possibility that some legislators might get confused by the sudden change, or that they might think Reps. Philpot and Throckmorton were being deceitful. However, after talking to many legislators today, we've found that some like the bill as originally written because it doesn't change the permit system. Others like the amendment because it saves money.

Our position is this: It is far more important to pass HB 183 in SOME form than to kill it over disputes about amendments. If a legislator likes the Throckmorton amendment, great. We support it. If he's not comfortable with it, that's okay too - as long as he votes YES on the original bill. What is NOT acceptable is killing this bill for ANY reason.

Rep. Philpot plans to try again this evening to uncircle his bill and get a vote. We'll try to send another alert late tonight to update you on that attempt, and on the progress of other gun bills. Your involvement will be very much needed during the final 7 days of the session, since we have many good, pro-gun bills that we'd like to get passed.

http://www.sierratimes.com/02/02/26/arut022602.htm

Steve Mace