Steven Mace
02-04-2002, 04:52 AM
Sunday, February 3, 2002
Lawmakers not giving up on concealed weapon law
Zien, Suder trying to push bills through
By Tom Giffey
Leader-Telegram staff
Although he acknowledges it has little chance of passing, state Sen. Dave Zien can't hide his zeal for a bill that would allow Wisconsin residents to carry concealed weapons.
"The more I've gotten into this issue, the more I'm convinced … that this is indeed a right of the citizen that they should have," said Zien, R-Eau Claire. "It's just a salt-of-the-earth, grass-roots issue."
Zien's bill would allow residents who have undergone safety training and passed a background check to obtain a license to carry a concealed weapon.
An Assembly version of the bill, co-sponsored by Rep. Scott Suder, R-Abbotsford, likely will be the subject of a hearing in Eau Claire, as it was in 2000.
At that time the bill failed to pass, and Zien said "hopes are very remote" that the measure would gain approval from the Democrat-controlled Senate during this session. However, Zien said he anticipates it will become a high-profile issue in the fall election and during the 2003 legislative session.
Zien and other supporters of the bill argue that allowing concealed weapons will cut crime by allowing law-abiding residents to defend themselves if needed.
Zien cites statistics compiled by John Lott, a Yale University scholar who testified at the 2000 hearing in Eau Claire, to bolster his bill. Lott found that in 98 percent of cases, perpetrators flee when a gun is brought out at the scene of a crime, Zien said.
"Crime has gone down faster in the concealed-carry states than in the nonconcealed-carry states," Zien said. "Why do we need it? If this reduces crime, why would anyone be against it?"
But the possibility of concealed weapons makes some law enforcement officials and anti-violence groups uncomfortable.
"I don't like thinking about going to a day-care center thinking about the fact that someone is there with a concealed gun," said Jeri Bonavia, executive director of the Wisconsin Anti-Violence effort.
Bonavia said her group, which testified against the bill two years ago, is not opposed to guns, just to gun violence.
Although she doesn't think that legalizing concealed weapons will cause a sudden spike in violent crime, Bonavia said she is concerned it would change individual decisions and endanger more people.
Putting guns in more homes, she said, puts more people at risk of murder, suicide or accidental death.
Under the bill, county sheriffs must issue concealed weapons licenses, good for five years, to those who qualify and pay an approximately $75 fee. In addition to undergoing a background check and safety training, licensees must be state residents at least 21 years old and must not be drug users or have been committed for drug treatment.
Concealed weapons would be prohibited in a variety of locations, including police stations, courthouses, schools, athletic events, airports and taverns.
Zien said he would trust properly trained and licensed residents to carry concealed guns in the state Capitol.
Wisconsin is one of only six states that doesn't allow concealed weapons under any circumstances. Dick Baker of Greenfield, treasurer of the recently formed Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association, said this fact has made him increasingly frustrated.
"To have the government say 'I don't trust you' is insulting," Baker said.
When Florida adopted a concealed-carry law in the late 1980s, Baker said criminals began to shy away from attacking residents.
"If 1 to 2 percent of the population is carrying a concealed weapon, the criminal has to ask himself, 'Am I going to be comfortable with those odds?' " Baker said.
Advocates of the bill say it will increase safety for people who are vulnerable to violent crime, such as women and the elderly. However, Bonavia said these groups would be at added risk from concealed weapons -- women from violence by their partners and the elderly from suicide.
Bonavia also disputes Lott's research, which she said has been discredited by other scholars.
"I think relying on the work of one individual, when there have been many people who have looked at this issue, is irresponsible to the citizens of Wisconsin," she said.
For example, she said, states with concealed-carry laws have higher gun death rates than Wisconsin, "and I don't know why we would want to emulate those statistics."
Bonavia said surveys show most state residents would feel less safe if concealed weapons were legal.
"To me the introduction of persons carrying hidden, loaded firearms in their daily activities, how does that improve our quality of life?" asked Chippewa Falls Police Chief Joseph Coughlin.
Wisconsin has a low crime rate, Coughlin said, and he fears the proposal would lead to more guns being used in everyday disputes.
Coughlin, a member of the legislative committee of the Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association, testified against the bill two years ago. Although gun advocates denounce Wisconsin's status as a nonconcealed-carry state, Coughlin said the fact is nothing to be embarrassed about.
Coughlin said police officers must go through stringent psychological testing and firearms training before they are allowed to carry weapons. This would not be the case under the concealed-carry bill, and Coughlin said he questions the ability of some people to make the rapid decision to use deadly force.
People have differing degrees of mental stability, Coughlin said, but supporters of the bill only talk in terms of bad guys and good guys, criminals and law-abiding residents.
"That just means you don't have a criminal history," Coughlin said. "It doesn't mean you're not a guy with a short fuse."
But Baker scoffs at such arguments, saying they remove the presumption of innocence. Allowing people to carry concealed weapons is essentially an issue of civil rights and trust, Baker said.
"The question we ask of legislators is, do you trust your own law-abiding constituents?" Baker said. "If you don't, that's a pretty insulting message to send."
http://www.leadertelegram.com/local_news3.htm
Steve Mace
Lawmakers not giving up on concealed weapon law
Zien, Suder trying to push bills through
By Tom Giffey
Leader-Telegram staff
Although he acknowledges it has little chance of passing, state Sen. Dave Zien can't hide his zeal for a bill that would allow Wisconsin residents to carry concealed weapons.
"The more I've gotten into this issue, the more I'm convinced … that this is indeed a right of the citizen that they should have," said Zien, R-Eau Claire. "It's just a salt-of-the-earth, grass-roots issue."
Zien's bill would allow residents who have undergone safety training and passed a background check to obtain a license to carry a concealed weapon.
An Assembly version of the bill, co-sponsored by Rep. Scott Suder, R-Abbotsford, likely will be the subject of a hearing in Eau Claire, as it was in 2000.
At that time the bill failed to pass, and Zien said "hopes are very remote" that the measure would gain approval from the Democrat-controlled Senate during this session. However, Zien said he anticipates it will become a high-profile issue in the fall election and during the 2003 legislative session.
Zien and other supporters of the bill argue that allowing concealed weapons will cut crime by allowing law-abiding residents to defend themselves if needed.
Zien cites statistics compiled by John Lott, a Yale University scholar who testified at the 2000 hearing in Eau Claire, to bolster his bill. Lott found that in 98 percent of cases, perpetrators flee when a gun is brought out at the scene of a crime, Zien said.
"Crime has gone down faster in the concealed-carry states than in the nonconcealed-carry states," Zien said. "Why do we need it? If this reduces crime, why would anyone be against it?"
But the possibility of concealed weapons makes some law enforcement officials and anti-violence groups uncomfortable.
"I don't like thinking about going to a day-care center thinking about the fact that someone is there with a concealed gun," said Jeri Bonavia, executive director of the Wisconsin Anti-Violence effort.
Bonavia said her group, which testified against the bill two years ago, is not opposed to guns, just to gun violence.
Although she doesn't think that legalizing concealed weapons will cause a sudden spike in violent crime, Bonavia said she is concerned it would change individual decisions and endanger more people.
Putting guns in more homes, she said, puts more people at risk of murder, suicide or accidental death.
Under the bill, county sheriffs must issue concealed weapons licenses, good for five years, to those who qualify and pay an approximately $75 fee. In addition to undergoing a background check and safety training, licensees must be state residents at least 21 years old and must not be drug users or have been committed for drug treatment.
Concealed weapons would be prohibited in a variety of locations, including police stations, courthouses, schools, athletic events, airports and taverns.
Zien said he would trust properly trained and licensed residents to carry concealed guns in the state Capitol.
Wisconsin is one of only six states that doesn't allow concealed weapons under any circumstances. Dick Baker of Greenfield, treasurer of the recently formed Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association, said this fact has made him increasingly frustrated.
"To have the government say 'I don't trust you' is insulting," Baker said.
When Florida adopted a concealed-carry law in the late 1980s, Baker said criminals began to shy away from attacking residents.
"If 1 to 2 percent of the population is carrying a concealed weapon, the criminal has to ask himself, 'Am I going to be comfortable with those odds?' " Baker said.
Advocates of the bill say it will increase safety for people who are vulnerable to violent crime, such as women and the elderly. However, Bonavia said these groups would be at added risk from concealed weapons -- women from violence by their partners and the elderly from suicide.
Bonavia also disputes Lott's research, which she said has been discredited by other scholars.
"I think relying on the work of one individual, when there have been many people who have looked at this issue, is irresponsible to the citizens of Wisconsin," she said.
For example, she said, states with concealed-carry laws have higher gun death rates than Wisconsin, "and I don't know why we would want to emulate those statistics."
Bonavia said surveys show most state residents would feel less safe if concealed weapons were legal.
"To me the introduction of persons carrying hidden, loaded firearms in their daily activities, how does that improve our quality of life?" asked Chippewa Falls Police Chief Joseph Coughlin.
Wisconsin has a low crime rate, Coughlin said, and he fears the proposal would lead to more guns being used in everyday disputes.
Coughlin, a member of the legislative committee of the Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association, testified against the bill two years ago. Although gun advocates denounce Wisconsin's status as a nonconcealed-carry state, Coughlin said the fact is nothing to be embarrassed about.
Coughlin said police officers must go through stringent psychological testing and firearms training before they are allowed to carry weapons. This would not be the case under the concealed-carry bill, and Coughlin said he questions the ability of some people to make the rapid decision to use deadly force.
People have differing degrees of mental stability, Coughlin said, but supporters of the bill only talk in terms of bad guys and good guys, criminals and law-abiding residents.
"That just means you don't have a criminal history," Coughlin said. "It doesn't mean you're not a guy with a short fuse."
But Baker scoffs at such arguments, saying they remove the presumption of innocence. Allowing people to carry concealed weapons is essentially an issue of civil rights and trust, Baker said.
"The question we ask of legislators is, do you trust your own law-abiding constituents?" Baker said. "If you don't, that's a pretty insulting message to send."
http://www.leadertelegram.com/local_news3.htm
Steve Mace