Velko's Yugo AK fact sheet -

[Velko]

SOME FACTS ABOUT YUGO AKs (from a Yugo-American, actually I don't consider myself Yugo but since we're talking Yugo AKs I'll pretend.) My parents are Serbs.

Yugo AK types marked:

AK-47 - your garden variety AK, the Yugos came in full and folding with
their beefy pistol grips.

M-70 - this is how the Yugo AKs were marked that came in before the
AK-47 Yugos. - pretty rare and someone that has one
said that his had a bunch of serial numbers on it.

RPK-47 - I had one lined up for $1800, new and then I asked the guy how
the bipod folds - he said "what bipod?" So it turns out that there are
two wersions of the Yugo RPK - one with long finned heavy barrel and
bipod and one that looks just like the AK. Apparently there are also folders out there marked RPK-47. There are 12 fins on the barrel. I have an RPK Mitchell pre-ban that has an AK74 type brake on the end. There'a a cool pic of my RPK and AK Yugos at SecurityArms.com.

M-90 - if it says M-90 on it it's a POSTBAN! ! ! ! This is straight
from Mitchell Arms, the company that imported thousands. If it says M90
it has to have the plastic butthole stock on it and the bayonet lug was
cut off. Check this out though - The folders that Mitchell brought in
just after the Bush Ban of 89 that were stuck for 4.5 years in customs
while BATF was figuring out what could be done with them. The
under-folders were left intact and a butthole stock was put on top of
it! Weird huh? I guess that it was easier to leave the folder on and
not have big holes in the receiver showing. So if you take the plastic
butthole stock off the folder, you got an AK that looks preban but
ain't. Additionally, the M-90s did say AK-47 on them but that was
etched out by hand and M-90 etched in by hand. The original pistol grip
and buttstock were included with the M-90s and a lot of guys say "oh
yeah, it's OK to put them on." Not so according to Mitchell Arms. I paid $850 for a NIB M90 WITH a real Yugo mag and I thought it was a good deal!

308 AKs - There are PRE and POST versions in .308. Mags are hard to
find. Have heard from several people that the mag that came with the
gun works but that the aftermarket mags (there are 20 and 30 rounders)
which were US made were crap. The post versions are marked M77 or M90.
The pre versions are marked AK-47. I don't know for sure but I think
there are RPK versions available both pre and post.

Other versions - there's an M-76 that's considered the "sniper"
version. It's in 8mm and there might be some in 308. I think these
were the Yugo answer to the Dragunov and they came with a 10 round mag.
I believe there are post ban versions of these too but am not sure how
they are marked. Have been told that Galil 308 mags can be tweaked to
work in the Yugo 308s.

Yugo mags - have the ability to lock the bolt back when empty but when
you drop the mag the bolt goes forward. It's done via a raised mag follower. There are no dimples in the Yugo AK mag to hold the follower down - that's another way to tell a Yugo mag.
Pretty goodfeature instead of pulling the trigger and getting a click. As far as I
know the only distinguishing feature is this metal on it.

Thanks to our statist/hegemonist government we destroyed the factory in
Kragujevac where AKs are made in Yugo so that's why I had to get me one.

ACE Ltd. (530-346-2492) makes a nice repro of the Yugo plastic pistol
grip which is found on the real Military Yugo AKs. It's about $12. At
first I thought the thick wood grip on the semi-Yugos was kinda funky
but it actually feels much better than a regular AK grip. I don't know
why but it seems that all the Yugo AKs imported to the US came with the
thick wood grip which is from the Yugo version of the Dragunov.
http://www.blackrivermilitaria.com/paraclete.html

[Yog]

Velko,

That's some fantastic information on a rare rifle!!

Thanks for sharing!

"Yog" (in Alaska)
"Molon Labe!"

[M77B1]

Nothing new in your info,but basically accurate.

There are not two versions of the RPK(except for 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 models); the receivers are the same for the RPK and the standard rifle,and apparantly some receivers marked "RPK" were simply installed on standard models at the factory.

.308 Galil mags can be modified to work in the .308 Yugo; I have four of them and they work well. The .308 Yugo mag does not hold the bolt open after the last shot like the 7.62x39 mags do.


You can get a copy of the black plastic Yugo military grip from MSG for $5.

The M76 Sniper is not a Yugo version of the Dragunov SVD; the receiver and gas system are completely different. Mitchell Arms imported the M76 in 7.92x57 only,although the Yugoslavians did offer 7.62x51 and 7.62x54R chambered versions for export.

The question of legality of M90 rifles with pistol grips comes up frequently. 18 U.S.C. 922(r),27 CFR sec.178.39 seems to allow this configuration, but I have yet to see a BATF letter or ruling clarifying the matter.

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M77B1 aka FN49

[This message has been edited by M77B1 (edited 07-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by M77B1 (edited 07-26-2000).]

[RangerSXT]

M77B1 is correct I orginally researched this info along with some help from James Bardwell on SUBGUNS.COM and the law does pretain to this rifle any others imported prior to the siging in Nov. 1990. I have posted the Info before and if asked will post again. I did speak with the dealer whom spoke with the BATF and they said yes this is a fact and covered by such law.

[backblast]

When I picked up my Yugo M90 in '92 the dealer said the the stock/pistol grip was OK to place on that particular rifle only. It was no permitted on any other yugo rifle. Mine has the threaded muzzle, nite sights but the bayo lug was ground off. It came with a certificate stating that this rifle was in country before the 89 ban but was held in customs after the ban. So...it would be nice to see in writing from ATF about this, but Mr Bardwell is very knowledgable, so....what do you guys think? cya

[Velko]

I ain't buying it - an M90 is POST. If it's not then why in the hell did they sit somewhere for 5 years until a decision was made to grind off the bayo lugs, strip the nite sites and then fabricate a plastic butthole stock?

If it were true that it's OK to put the furniture back on it then there should be no price diff between a Pre and Post Yugo but there is a big difference in price.

[backblast]

Today we are going to talk about greed. http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif cya

[RangerSXT]

VELKO: Believe what you want...mine did not sit for four and half years as stated..your info is incorrect I recv. mine right after the signing directly from the dealer whom ordered ten. My reccv. date on my form Sept. 1991 enough said. It was researched at he time prior to buying and the following info is for your pleasure. Do as you may but I have the info from several people and the BATF conversation at the time about the rifle http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/rolleyes.gif

BACKBLAST: You are correct greed!!! One could still contend a price difference because of the BAYO lug and the M-90 remark.

INFO for the third or fourth or...whatever time The 1st section was from info I gathered via James Bardwell the Legal Guru from SUBGUNS.COM then the second para is the BATF rule/law:

The ones with the model name scratched out are ones trapped in Customs after the ban was imposed in March, 1989. If it was in the USA before 11/90 could have been converted to pre-ban configuration and be legal that way, but whether it was is hard to determine - only the owner(s) before 11/90 would know. In Nov. 1990 the law prohibiting assembling semi-auto rifles into unimportable configurations was passed, 18 USC 922(r).
In short, if the model name is scratched out like that, it isn't a true pre-Bush ban import. It may still be legal in pre-ban configuration though.

27 CFR sec. 178.39
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle, or any shotgun, using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes. (b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(b) (1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof, or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(c) (2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of section 178.151; or
(d) (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

OK here we go: Velcro thanks but your info is somewhat distorted. See my post on Import number of Yugos below. There was never a Bi-pod free RPK produced or imported into the US. There were not any .308 M-76's imported that is pure rumor. The M90's were in the country and held up in customs in NY and LA warehouses. In order for them to be released they had to be converted so the sat for long time...and when you have money tied up in the millions well you get the idea. Your out of business and that is exactly what happened, in this case. Velcro we bombed the factory because the dictator in power was killing people just like the Nazis....please understand if the Croats were murdering the Serbs, then I guess when the US saved your rear end then we would be OK? You know how much the Croats love to eat Serbs for dinner! Remember that the Croats in the Bosnian conflict were on the verge of invading your homeland. The Croats sided with the Germans in WWII....funny you could have never been born if it wasn't for US troops. Learn HISTORY 101.

[This message has been edited by AKEXPERT (edited 07-27-2000).]

[This message has been edited by AKEXPERT (edited 07-27-2000).]

[Repairoman]

Velko,
I don't know what part of the country you are in, but it's hard for me to believe that anyone could get much more money for a preban Yugo than is being got for the M-90's here in Ohio. $1200 is the lowest price I've seen on a standard M-90 and the dealer is not budging a bit. He's lowered prices on all guns EXCEPT the Yugo. Two guys down from Michigan had an unfired RPK (no box or papers) and went home with it. They were asking $2500 and once again , they wouldn't budge an inch. $1800 cash in their face didn't move the gun. Some deals do happen on the 'net, but if you're not as fast as greased lightening, they're gone in a flash. Valmet M76 got a deal 'cause the dumb owner kept refering to the gun as a "MAK-90". Chinese are a dime a dozen and at $575 it was no deal for a Chi-com POS --But since it was really an "M-90", Valmet gets the big cigar.
In closing, please pass on all info on Yugos for sale under $900 that you run across, I'm in the market to pick up a few more to add to my collection. -Repairman

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=657579&a=6960527&p=23470135&Sequence=0

[This message has been edited by Repairman (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Velko]

AKExpert: You said - "There was never a Bi-pod free RPK produced or imported into the US." Well I almost bought one and someone else has a folder marked RPK so I guess I must be lying. Yes, technically they're not RPKs but they ARE out there. Looks like someone at Zastava was drinking on the job.

All I have to say about the US involvement in Yugo is that it was wrong and like I said in my post I'm an American and a proud one at that - and as a Libertarian I'm against the involvement of US troops ANYWHERE unless it involves the natl. security of the US.

Glad you could nitpick at my comments and I really like your patronizing assumption that I don't know History and that if not for the US I would never have been BORN!? You have the right to your opinions even if I think they're stupid. The US did not get involved in Serbia because a dictator was killing Albanians - if you looked a little further than CNN for your facts maybe you'd ask why we didn't go to Rwanda then.

I don't wanna rag on you - I'm here to talk AKs not politics - but I ain't gonna sit back when someone acts like a 5th grader and name calls. You wouldn't call me Velcro to my face - I guarantee you.

Repairman - thanks for using my proper name and not being a know-it-all. So I should consider myself lucky for the $850 spent on my M90. It was untouched - really nice - original box and all, NIB. I live in Los Angeles and was going nuts looking for an RPK thinking I'd never find one but a few months before the ban found one - an actual preban one! $1800 used but VG. What a great gun. I'm actually going to a range tomorrow to test something out. Just wish I had a time machine to get a Sniper and a folder - and an FNC and a Beretta and . . . . Like I said in my original post there were (and probably still are) a few M90 RPKs out there that owners are asking $2000 for!

I'm originally from Detroit. Had a Valmet 76, FMP G3S and Hung folder and sold those to get other black stuff - what a dummy I was! Never sell another one.

If I see anything will keep you posted. The good news about the Kalifornia ban is that if someone here has to sell you guys in the what's left of our free country can get it.
http://people.we.mediaone.net/velko/Yugo RPK.JPG

[This message has been edited by Velko (edited 07-28-2000).]

Nitpicking? Hey you stupid idiot with no freaking knowledge of what you are talking about. I used to work for Mitchell Arms and I know more about your former? country than you do. Please note I posted the actual number of rifles by designation. You need a history lesson. Yes I will call you Velcro to your face and smile at the same time. Right here :-) The receivers are marked in some instances ak, rpk or AK/RPK....your so called bipod free rifle, probably removed, or you have it confused with the M76 8mm Countersniper, was never imported by Mitchell Arms w/o a bipod. Never Happened!! Get your assumptions in order!! Including CNN?? If you need any extra parts you will probably have to buy them through me since I own all the original parts plus new ones. Need brand new night sight for the RPK? Think before you speak or write in this instance. Don't mean to flame you but I have a problem with those who profess to be knowledgable and factually wrong. Buy the way there is a folding stock RPK made in 1997 well after the imports were stopped. Also there were 2 .223 M-80's brought in I own both...thank you very much Velcro. Also be aware that the in Rowanda the gorillas were armed with Yugoslavian Rifles....I didn't have to look at picture on CNN, I saw them in person. E-Nuff. My apologies to the other members of this board for this kind of post. Nice picture Repairman!!

[This message has been edited by AKEXPERT (edited 07-28-2000).]

[This message has been edited by AKEXPERT (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Repairoman]

Fellas, if I may:
Some guns were made with RPK stamped on the receivers. An underfolder cannot be an RPK, so do not beleive what is stamped on a receiver vs. what your eyes tell you. Also the RPK's had a 20" finned barrel with a permenently affixed bi-pod -- no goodies, no RPK.. Gentlemen, KNOW YOUR WEAPONS.- THEY ARE YOUR FREINDS

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=657579&a=7132604&p=24161177&Sequence=0

[This message has been edited by Repairman (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Velko]

AKExpert -
I'd throw my AKs in the trash before I bought parts from you! I'd buy a machine shop first.

Zip it buddy.

[CAMPYBOB]

repairman...that grass looks very familiar!

akexpert...velko...please knock it off. i would agree that both of you are yugo meisters. btw, i have a fixed yugo ak-47 in 7.62. a very nice rifle...it is a mitchall import. too bad zastava is just a memory. hold your yugo's close, there will be no more (at least for a long while).

m77 and repairman...jump in here with me and let's get things patched up between a couple of fellow yugo owners!

[Velko]

Campy - no problems from me buddy but realize that I didn't get on the board and start name calling. I'm here to talk Yugos and Galils!

Can't we all just get along before the Anti-Gunners do us in?

And how do you get a picture to come up in the posts?

Check out my stuff - more to come:
http://people.we.mediaone.net/velko/home.htm

[Panzerschreck]

Nice collection of pics Velko. Your wife is very cute by the way.

[Repairoman]

C-Bob,
That would be the rare and exotic Mapleton grass. http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/biggrin.gif
As for the rest of it, I'm waiting for the fire to stop so I can go checking boot sizes.

[CAMPYBOB]

velko...nice rifles (plastic t-holes...yuuuuch!) and cute wife. i have the arm and still have not had the courage to put the first round thru it!

[DewayneB]

Can anyone shed any light on this kind of Yugo? I have one marked "Model AK Cal 7.62x39", It was imported by "American Arms Inc N.K.C-Mo", all those markings appear on the right side. On the left is marked "Zastava-Kragujevac Made in Yugoslavia". It has a serial number under 1500 and is new. It has reddish-brown walnut looking furniture with the fat wood pistol grip. Tritium flip up night sites, re-inforced receiver the whole deal. The selector markings are marked "safe" and "Fire". Would any of you happen to have any background info on that kind of rifle??


------------------
AK's Rule!!!

Dewayne_B

[This message has been edited by DewayneB (edited 07-30-2000).]

[Repairoman]

DewayneB,
They are the same gun as the Mitchell Arms imports. The only difference is another individual imported them into the country. I can't say if it makes it more valuable (to me it wouldn't be) because a Yugo is a Yugo. For those who have never held one in their hands, they will never understand why we pay the prices we do to own a Yugo.

Your rifle is a standard M-70 pre ban model.
These imports do not have the mounting rail on the left side for the scope mount. They are just as good as what was imported at Mitchell..samre rifle except for the scope mount dovetail missing.

Vel your going to have to use that machine shop to make your Yugo .308 mags, since I have original mags NIWrap I'm going to release from the warehouse in about six weeks or so when I'm finished with inventory.

[M77B1]

AKEXPERT: Are the .308 mags original Yugoslavian made,and if so,what will you want for them?

Also,do you have the springs for the front and rear night sights? I have the night sights,but w/out the springs to hold them up they're useless.

Thanks.

------------------
M77B1 aka FN49

[This message has been edited by M77B1 (edited 07-31-2000).]

[Repairoman]

AKExpert,
ditto on the springs, also my sights are oh so dim. Are there bright replacements available? Can mine be made bright again? Also do you have a list of Yugo stuff that is for sale?, if so would you please e-mail me a copy.
Thanks, John

[Mikester]

Repairman, I am not trying to fan the flames of discontent here, but my M90 .308 RPK's bipod is fairly easy to detach, is yours a 7.62X39 or maybe a pre-ban?

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DO RIGHT, AND FEAR NO ONE

[This message has been edited by Mikester (edited 08-01-2000).]

[Repairoman]

Define easy. If I didn't have a cleaning rod under the barrel, I could take off the bipod in about 4.5 seconds. That's easy. Butttttt...... I have a cleaning rod that's held in place by a clip that is between the thread nut and the barrel shoulder. Since my pin is non-collapsable, I can't tqke off the barrel nut to release the cleaning rod that holds the bipod from releasing out of it's mount. Taking drift punches to knock out the pin in the front sight to release my muzzle pin to unscrew the thread cap to release the cleaning rod just misses being in the easy category in my book. http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/biggrin.gif

Velkos gun must have had the bi-pod removed. Talked with Krinkov the other night and we agreed...we almost cut out of the board but decided to stay. Since we know and help others here. The spring sets are exclusive to the front and rear M-70 series, sorry but they are all gone...the only way to get them is to purchase a new set. I have the rear ones for the RPK brand new. e-mail your needs....the 308's are going to be around $80.00 each but that price is not yet set in stone...but not more than that...yes they are original mags not aftermarket junk.

[This message has been edited by AKEXPERT (edited 08-03-2000).]

[Mikester]

Repairman, Ummm yea, I see your point. But you are probably aware they originally had a spring-loaded pin to release the little clip, mike@msc has some I think.
Are they legal? Read the post by M77, third post from the top, since they were in the country, they should be legal.

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DO RIGHT, AND FEAR NO ONE

[Repairoman]

Mikester,
One day I'll get up the ambition to remove the muzzle pin from the sight base. I've never had one apart, but I hazzard a guess all they did was replace the spring with a solid metal dowel behind the pin. It shouldn't be too hard to find a small spring(one from an ink pen comes to mind) to make it function as original.

[CAMPYBOB]

repairman...order the parts from k-var. the "fix" takes all of 5 minutes. how's your class 3 effort coming. mickeymouse will be joining the party, also. me next???

[Repairoman]

C-bob,
The FNC is in the state. 70 days for a Pa to OH. transfer. SUX SUX SUX Now the CELO sign off and another 3 months of waiting. They tell me not to count on having it in time for the KNOB. : ( I figure if I buy another class III by X-Mas, I'll have it to shoot by good weather in June. ; )