What is your favorite Semi Auto C&R Rifle

[zouavexx]

I have yet to actually buy a Semi auto C&R rifle with my license but my favorite is the M1 Garand.

Of the list above which is your favorite?

Here are the choices

M1 Garand or M1 Carbine
http://www.fulton-armory.com/M1ServiceGradeBlue300.jpg
http://www.fulton-armory.com/Carbine-500_50.jpg

SKS
http://www.southernohiogun.com/images/SKSM5966G.jpg

Hakim or Rashid
http://www.shooterstore.com/jgsales/images/Hakim.gif
http://www.shooterstore.com/jgsales/images/Rashid.gif

FN 49
http://www.members.cchat.com/mogley/fn49.jpg

MAS 49/56
http://www.southernohiogun.com/images/mas2.jpg

Other?

[8dDUCE]

Do not have one yet, but I want an M-1 Garand BAD!!!!! 8dDUCE.

[whos2kno]

when I was a kid my dad had a friend who had a M1 Carbine and he would let me shoot all I wanted to.cans of .30cal. stack in back of a truck.he also had a HK-91(my first rifle I have ever shot)
even though I have not shot one in a LONG time I vote for the M1 Carbine
whos2kno

[J.M.SACULLA]

M-1 GARAND is one bad mother!thats my choice.

[JES AR15]

i don't have one, YET, but my vote is for Garand. i'm kicking myself now for not getting one for $200 through DCM when i was told too :mad: :rolleyes:

[Punk]

Gota be the Garand, how much do they go for?

[zouavexx]

The Garand can cost upwards of $2,000 but you can probally find one for around $750.

Or you can get one from the government ;)

http://www.odcmp.com/

SERVICE GRADE: $500.00 - Limit of five per customer per calendar year - In external appearance, these are average rifles in "military service" condition. Metal finish may be worn. The wood will be sound, but with probable dents, gouges and bruises. Parts and/or finish are not necessarily original, and may be mixed from different manufacturers. Bore condition measured by a throat erosion gauge will vary from 1 (new) to 5 (worn but serviceable). Add $19.95 shipping charge per rifle.

For more info check out this link:

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28334


A M1 Garand is well worth the investment!

[pro2nd]

I have three m1 and I stilllove them but I like the sks better

[Lucas]

A couple of things--shouldn't the Garand and the Carbine be listed seperately--they're very different. Also, seeing as how the site is part of AK47.net, shouldn't you list the C&R Maddi Egyptian? The early one, not the current import.

[aliceinchains]

GARAND, for sure ,killed a lot of nazi's.Use to be around 300.00 dollars at woolworth in park city mall .That was back in the mid seventies.Plenty of carbines to go around to.They were about 125.00 dollars.

[Dan44]

German G&K-43. There's a ton of these waiting to be imported from Mother Russia.

[aliceinchains]

Well glad to here some of that good news Dan44.:)

[elkydriver]

m-1 garand :bigdeal:

[Dan44]

Originally posted by aliceinchains
Well glad to here some of that good news Dan44.:)
From "Hitlers Garands" pg 298 "many tens of thousands were retained and warehoused in Russia itself---A few US importers have viewed these stockpiled weapons, but the reportedly high cost-per-gun demanded by the former Soviets have precluded their purchase and importation." Lets hope they need the cash more then we do!

[Schuetzenman]

Garand all the way!

You should have listed the AG42B ljungman Swedish rifle as the Rashid and Hakim are direct copies of this original rifle from Sweden. In fact the Sweds built the plant for them.

Back to Garands, I encourage all that want one to go to the www.odcmp website for the Civilian Marksmansip Program. Find a club that has Garand Clinics in your state or even in an ajoing state. Then go get one through them. This way you get a real Garand, not a Century one with a cast receiver and more importantly you support shooting programs for the youth of America. You'll also learn how to shoot at the clinics, not just about the Garand.

Think you know how to shoot but were never in the military or on a shooting team. Think again. 90% of the people I run into haven't a clue how to really hold a weapon, how to shoot prone, kneeling, sitting or offhand, or how to sling the rifle other than over their back. You'll learn all that at a Garand Clinic and you'll have fun!:D

[zouavexx]

Originally posted by Lucas
A couple of things--shouldn't the Garand and the Carbine be listed seperately--they're very different. .....

There are plenty of other rifles, that I could have put up on the poll, but we limited to only 6 choices. I put the Garand and Carbine together for the same reason, wanting to get as many choices up there as I could.

Originally posted by Schuetzenman
You should have listed the AG42B ljungman Swedish rifle as the Rashid and Hakim are direct copies of this original rifle from Sweden. In fact the Sweds built the plant for them.

That I can fix :)

[neilwest]

1. My favorite curio is the 49/56 MAS, but my favorite gun is and always will be the M1Garand. It aint no curio, its a lethal weapon.

[AKWARRIOR]

That would have to be the GEW43 for me.MY father passed his on to me before he passed away>I love the weapon and only wish the germans had upgrade to it or the STG44 from the Kar98K.I sure would love to own an M1 garrand as well.about 2 years ago I was at the range and an old vet had one and a M1A.I fell in love with both.

Regards,

[zouavexx]

GEW43!

The G43 rifle was the German counterpart of the Soviet SVT40. It used full-power 8mm Mauser round and was issued primarily to snipers. That rifle would make a very interesting selection for the "pick of the week".

http://www.a-human-right.com/G43/s_G43.jpg

[Rew]

While I love the Garand, the carbine is like me, small and lethel:rolleyes: , anyway it is my fav. Besides I am an "all Amercian, flag waving, retired military boy" it has to be an American rifle.;)

Rew

[whos2kno]

Originally posted by zouave
GEW43!

The G43 rifle was the German counterpart of the Soviet SVT40. It used full-power 8mm Mauser round and was issued primarily to snipers. That rifle would make a very interesting selection for the "pick of the week".

http://www.a-human-right.com/G43/s_G43.jpg
i want one.
how much do these run?
whos2kno

[Dan44]

Originally posted by whos2kno

i want one.
how much do these run?
whos2kno

I've been watching prices on these for awhile. $1200 on the low end $1500 average price, with proper scope & mount $2000+, the highest on Gunbroker 6 months ago was $7000 for a mint gun taken from the factory with this dog type tag and capture papers.

[The Fourth Horseman]

Toss up between the Garand and SVT 40

Svt 40 is a sweet piece of work to fire.

I like the garand sights better though

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Even though I don't have and have not shot one yet,definitely a Garand,then the M1 Carbine which I will have shortly! :)

[AKWARRIOR]

G43,I have one.Mine has the original ZF-4 scope.NO I am not selling,never.I know the worth of these babies.Again,I inherited it from my father.Its mint and Ive only fired it on 2 occasions.It stays in the safe now.Its my baby.It will stay in the family forever.:D :D :D

Regards,


Originally posted by Dan44


I've been watching prices on these for awhile. $1200 on the low end $1500 average price, with proper scope & mount $2000+, the highest on Gunbroker 6 months ago was $7000 for a mint gun taken from the factory with this dog type tag and capture papers.

[NC_Rebel]

Originally posted by AKWARRIOR
G43,I have one.Mine has the original ZF-4 scope.NO I am not selling,never.I know the worth of these babies.Again,I inherited it from my father.Its mint and Ive only fired it on 2 occasions.It stays in the safe now.Its my baby.It will stay in the family forever.:D :D :D

Regards,Suddenly I don't like you very much, AKWARRIOR. ;)

The Garand and M1 Carbine are the only ones on the list that I've fired, so I'd have to go with the Garand.

[Sajer]

I have or have had all of the above minus the G/K-43 and the FN49.

I find myself taking the Garand to the range more than the others.
Though the bore on mine is getting to the end of it's life.
I love my M-1 carbine and hardly shoot it anymore .
The M-1 carbine is a great car gun.

If I had a G-43 I would not shoot it that much either. They have a tendancy to break extractors.

[Ezra Coli]

I love Hakims and Rashids, but my all time favorite is the VZ-52. I just like the looks of them- they look mean as hell. They fire a nicely sized round and work like a charm.

Here's my Czech blonde... (you know I'm always in need of an excuse to show her off :rolleyes: ...)




http://fs8.dotphoto.com/MemberImages/203264/iD6B9B5C4-64C5-4334-B301-6E97C8866674.jpg

http://fs7.dotphoto.com/MemberImages/203264/i3CC67656-6635-47B4-ACFC-1419BE306EE3.jpg

[zouavexx]

Ezra Coli,

I love your photographs! They are so professional.

[BlackBore]

This is THE C & R semi-auto. To choose anything else is simply un-American:D
I picked up a real beauty not too long ago from Orien 7. It's kind of neat knowing my father and uncles could have used these to kill those damn Nazis and , to stay polite with no racial slurs , those other Axis foes during WW2 .

Zuoave , on the topic of the Frenchies , did you ever see The Last of The Mohicans , with Daniel Day Lewis ? I remember one hilarious scene when the English soldiers mock the French "...for making love with their faces. " Meaning the French liked licking c*nt :p

Blackbore , out !

[whos2kno]

Originally posted by AKWARRIOR
G43,I have one.Mine has the original ZF-4 scope.NO I am not selling,never.I know the worth of these babies.Again,I inherited it from my father.Its mint and Ive only fired it on 2 occasions.It stays in the safe now.Its my baby.It will stay in the family forever.:D :D :D

Regards,



have any pic's of it?

[Faulkner]

I think the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine should be seperate catagories. There are folks that own both, but Garand nuts and Carbine nuts are distinctly different groups of nuts. Even though I own two Garands, I'm a Carbine nut. I can't get them out of my system, I'm always looking for the next purchase or the next one to build from scratch.

http://www.picturefuse.com/images/0202/2300.jpg

But, I still like my Garands . . .

http://www.picturefuse.com/images/0202/2298.jpg

[FlashDaring]

Great Poll!
I voted for the FN-49 over the Garand for one reason. I hate those damn 8 round en bloc clips that go "ping" and give away your position AND the fact that your rifle is empty.

I have a NM Garand, a Ljungman AG-42B, SKS, AK, and a NM M-1A along with a few others that I really like to shoot. If we ever go to war with giant aliens from Jupiter (been reading too much sci-fi) I want the M-1A with those big, detachable 20 round mags by my side.

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by FlashDaring
Great Poll!
I voted for the FN-49 over the Garand for one reason. I hate those damn 8 round en bloc clips that go "ping" and give away your position AND the fact that your rifle is empty.

Ummmm . . . a clip going ping will give away your position but the 8 rounds you just shot didn't!

Hummm . . . you're in a fire fight with (fill in the blank) and you've both been shooting. Do you really think they will be able to hear a ping at distance after their ears are assaulted with muzzle blast from their own weapons?

[FlashDaring]

Ummmm . . . a clip going ping will give away your position but the 8 rounds you just shot didn't!

Hummm . . . you're in a fire fight with (fill in the blank) and you've both been shooting. Do you really think they will be able to hear a ping at distance after their ears are assaulted with muzzle blast from their own weapons?

----------------
OR,

You're hunkered down behind a barricade with ONE round left in the gun because there is no way to top off that damn en bloc clip. You see the bad guy, fire (which gives away your general position) but as he or his comrades look in your direction they see that cute little clip arcing up over your head to pinpoint your position (at least it wasn't painted fluorescent orange). With my FN-49 I start with 10 rounds of 30.06, not 8, and you can top off the mag with stripper clips instead of having to empty the rifle before reloading. To each his own.

I know that Gen. Patton said the M-1 Garand was "the best battle implement ever devised". It probably was at that time. I'm just saying the FN-49 (completed after WWII) is a slightly better rifle, IMHO.

I like my M-1, I like my FN-49 better and I like my M1-A best. This is no surprise, since these BR's were developed in that order and each represents an improvement on the one before.

Flash Out! :p

[Schuetzenman]

The top it off thing is a bad argument. I've talked to vets that used the M14 early on in Nam and they said they never topped off a mag. If they were moving to a position and waiting on an ambush they made sure the mag was full long before the got near the enemy's turf. In a fire fight they shot until they ran out and then switched mags. Maybe somebody topped off out there but I haven't met him yet.

BTW there's no way to top off an M16 except to switch mags.

Me if I thought I was low I'd press the clip latch and pull the bolt back it would let it pop up so I could remove it and put in a fresh 8 rounder then close up the action. Save the odd round in a the belt pocket.

Opinions differ. To me the FN49's are interesting but I don't care for the extra 1.5 lbs. roughly over a Garand, that and we didn't make it. :D

[falo308]

I think the FN 49 is my favorite or is it the Tokarev, no maybe its the SKS no no its definatly the CZ 52.
Wait a minute I almost forgot my G43 yes thats it
well......................

[Vladimir Berkov]

SVT-40

[FlashDaring]

"Opinions differ. To me the FN49's are interesting but I don't care for the extra 1.5 lbs. roughly over a Garand, that and we didn't make it." Scheutzenman
-------------------

Not to beat a dead horse, but the FN manual lists weight at 9.48#, the M-1 Garand manual lists weight at 9.5#. Don't know where you got your #s, with bayo maybe?

Also, you make my point when you talk about M-14s (posted above) not being topped off in Nam. Of course not. That's the advantage of a DBM, but the M-1 doesn't have a DBM, and you can't top it off either. To me that's a big negative.

Of course, there's the "patriot factor" of the M-1 over the FN. Can't argue with that, but that doesn't give me two extra rounds in the mag in the field that the FN gives in a firefight along with the stripper clip capability.....yada yada yada....

Your turn if you still wanna play.

Just having fun here. :D

Flash Out!

[FN-49'ER]

THE FN-49
The only reason Patton said the M1 Garand was the best Rifle is because he was tired of the Winchester 03A3 Blowing the Brains of His Men, out the back of their heads, there was nothing else. This and the fact that the FN-49 could have been the SAFN 38 if not for Two Major Upsets.
One the Germans taking Belgium in the early days of WW2, and the other Big reason, The fact that the designer Dieudonne J. Saive of Fabrique Nationale made the Big mistake of going to England and trusting that the British had enough sence to get rid of their 303 comparative POS and adopt the FN Design. While the USA was still working on the Johnson 41 and the Garand and long before the thought of the M1 Carbine
the SAFN could have been in the hands of either the Brits, or the US. If we had it Available, at Gradual Cannel or the Philippines, we would have faired much better, and there would never have been any Battling, Bastard, of Battan or the Death March. Patton would have loved the SAFN. As for the MI Carbine it wasn't because it was light and small that made it such a Favorite. It was that the Damm Thing didn't give away your position to the Enemy by Not Popping Up the Clip.
Fighting men willingly chose less Knock Down Power, and range just so they didn't have to worry about giving away there position.
RE: G/K-43 Great Design, Bad Production. The German Solders Favorite Semi-Autos were the SVT-40, or AG-42 when they could get there hands on one. The G/K-43 was a POS compared to the Garand, and Very Problematic
AG-42 was the most Accurate Rifle, and easy to Use, Kept the Germans out of Sweden, Remember, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, and others were Neutral, Didn't help them.
The Never to Have been SAFN for WW2 would have been the hardest hitting and best Rifle of WW2, IF ONLY...

:rant:

[Richard Simmons]

I have to interject here for a moment. I would seriously doubt that someone who had just been fired upon would be sticking their head up looking around for an ejecting en bloc clip or anything else for that matter. Also next time your out somewhere have a friend take an empty en bloc clip and walk out say 300-400 yards in any direction while you close your eyes. Have him holler and throw the clip to the side the same distance that the Garand would have. Don't open your eyes until you hear the yell and look in the direction it came from. Bullets travel a lot faster than sound mind you but even with this in mind, think you'll see the clip?

[FN-49'ER]

;)
I know I wouldn't see it. Also with all the Battel Sounds no one would here it, as I have often heard the Argument made. HOWEVER particularly in the Pacific Theater, where the Sound of the Garand was so easily distinctive from the Jab (Never Mind PC) 6.5.
I Can tell you for a Known fact that both the Snipers and the Spotters could see them, and used this to pick our men off. The German Snipers had some help from those Pop Ups Also.

[FN-49'ER]

;)
That's Jap, Not Jab, darn Spell Ck.
Also I forgot to add, just knowing the Rifleman was reloading or possibly out all together was another problem!

[FlashDaring]

You tell 'em FN-49'er! I thought I was going to have to take on the whole thread by myself. It's not that the M-1 isn't a great gun, got great history, shoots a great cartridge and is as patriotic as the flag, motherhood and apple pie. Every red-blooded American should have one. But, back to the original question,
"What is your favorite Semi Auto C&R Rifle?" You and I think the FN-49 is a more practical weapon and for that reason we favor it over others and we can argue the practicality of the rifle.

In all fairness, tho, the question was about "favorite", not best or most practical. I'll give that to 'em. They are entitled to their favorites albeit for different reasons than we.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :D

[FN-49'ER]

:rolleyes:
TO: FlashDaring

You're 100% Correct, I did not take into account "favorite."
I also agree that no Red Blooded American Collector is worth their Salt that doesn't have at least 2 Garands.
I might also add no collection of WW2 Rifles is complete without at least 1 G/K43, AG-42, or SVT-40.
You're also 100% correct about "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Now let me ask everyone out there, with the Possible exception of some of the High Quality Factory Special Editions that never were intended for anything but to show off the Rifle. Was there ever a more Beautiful Military Rifle made than the FN-49's. The ones I have that are 95% plus are to pretty to Shoot.

[FN-49'ER]

:confused:
TO: FlashDaring

I meant to say; with the Possible exception of some of the High Quality Factory Special Editions of the G/K 43.

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by FN-49'ER
Patton would have loved the SAFN. As for the MI Carbine it wasn't because it was light and small that made it such a Favorite. It was that the Damm Thing didn't give away your position to the Enemy by Not Popping Up the Clip.
Fighting men willingly chose less Knock Down Power, and range just so they didn't have to worry about giving away there position.
:rant:

What a truck load of Bovine Excretion!

Have you ever talked to a Veteran of WWII, Korea or early Vietnam? Anybody that thinks the Garand clip "Gave away your Postion" shows just how vacant of knowledge they REALLY are!

1. In a fire fight nobody could hear the clip.
2. Topping a mag off is a specious argument cause nobody ever did.
3. If a man was at close quarters and he had a question about needing a full 8 he would pull back the bolt and press the clip release to discharge the partial clip. Then put in a full one and gather the rounds from the less than 100% full clip. If they wanted to clear a room they threw in a grenade or 2 then they go in.
4. If people picked the M1 over a Garand it was usually in a house to house fight scenario of being inside a town. Reason, 15 rounds instead of 8 and the close range. The Carbine lacked penetration on walls and other obsticles that the 06 round would puch through. So there was always a matter of what were the conditions and which conditions were you most likely to encounter.

5. Servicemen rarely went it alone. They attack in a unit, that means that you always have others fighting by your side and at your 6. It matters little if you run out in 8 cause more than likely fire is coming from your buddys while you reload. Also remember the rank and file troops we went against had 5 shot bolt action Mausers. 8 gave us such a leg up on them, the results were punishing.

Many a vet I've talked to has their stories about Garands and M1 Carbines in action. I've had the privelage to talk to several dozen over the years. I make a point to ask them what weapons they used and how they performed for them. Did they like the weapon and did they ever have problems with them.

At least two gents that were officers that I've talked to had carbines issued to them. Both said they got rid of them as soon as they could when entering a combat. I asked why, they replied cause the damn thing didn't hit with any power. Not very accurate either was their reply.

The last guy I talked to that liked carbines used an M-2 in Vietnam. He liked it "because it was light and handy". His exact words. However, he had an encouneter with a VC that changed his mind about the light and handy part of it. He claims to have shot the VC at a range of 25 yds. or less and it took 6 or 7 shots to drop him. He said, "after that one I decided to get something with more power so I went to the M14. I carried the M14 for the rest of my tour even though it was heavy. It got the job done."

2 extra rounds . . . not a big advantage IMO. Detachable mag, so do SMLE's. The Brits didn't issue extra mags so it was almost irrelevant that it could be change out with the push of a button. I don't recall anything about mulitiple mags being issued with the FN49's either. They are designed to be 5 round at a time stripper reloaded in the weapon just like the Ljungman AG42B. I can put in a enbloc clip full of 8 in the same time it takes you guys to shove in 5 and be shooting before you get your hand on the next 5 round stripper full to fill the empty mag with. The Garand has the speed on reloading.

Your turn :p

[zouavexx]

how did this thread turn into a flame war?

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by zouave
how did this thread turn into a flame war?

FN-49'er says: The only reason Patton said the M1 Garand was the best Rifle is because he was tired of the Winchester 03A3 Blowing the Brains of His Men, out the back of their heads, there was nothing else.

I don't know Zouave, I'm still trying to figure what the hell this sentence means!?:eek: It reaks of trolling and flameism.

[zouavexx]

Schuetzenman here is a new smiley you may not have seen! (It was added while you were away.)


:deadhorse

[Schuetzenman]

LOL, yes I've seen it. It's so very appropriate it could be used on 90% of all threads on just about any weapons forum as all weapons are a finite subject and there's few conversations that haven't occured yet about them.

:deadhorse . . . I like it! I wonder if this is another masterpiece by Elbarfo?

[zouavexx]

Originally posted by Schuetzenman
I wonder if this is another masterpiece by Elbarfo?

Yes it is :)


Here is another classic by him:

:shtf:

[Schuetzenman]

Originally posted by zouave


Yes it is :)


Here is another classic by him:

:shtf:

Yes, I know that one as I put in a request for him to work on a "sh#t on you smiley like this one :shiton: and he came up with the SHTF emoticon at the same time. He does good work.;)

[FN-49'ER]

TO: Schuetzenman
First let me say a little more understanding on both sides of this discussion is needed and less personnel attacks. Unless were all to full of ourselves to share thoughts.
I'm only going to respond to one statement, and that's it.
RE: What a truck load of Bovine Excretion!
"Have you ever talked to a Veteran of WWII, Korea or early Vietnam? Anybody that thinks the Garand clip "Gave away your Postion" shows just how vacant of knowledge they REALLY are! "

First as for my statement regarding Patton, it comes from a well know letter written by Patton to the President of Winchester Arms.

As for my Knowledge of the Subject, or of knowing Veterans.
MY father was involved in WW2 long before most.
In China, Burma and North Africa. First with the AVG., then with other organizations.
After 15 years in the Navy Air Corps, he and others were personally asked by Claire Lee Chennault. To take the first load of P-40's to China. He was awarded numerous Medals including the Bronze Star. Also worked for CAT, for Air America During Nam.
My two uncles were in WW2 from the beginning to the end in the Navy. My step brother was in Korea for the long hall, and did three tours in Vietnam in the Army.
Retired Sergeant Major, Also numerous Medals and Citations. Countless Cousins fought in Nam. My best friend was in the Marines, During Vietnam, and spent 23 years in active Service, Retired Master Sergeant.
One or more of my Family has been in every War ever fought by this Country going back to the French and Indian War of the mid 17th Century, from memory I believe 1658. In my Family Military History are all Ranks, up to Generals. That's on my Fathers Side.
On my mothers side of WW2, my Grandfather was a General, My Cousin was Major, Von Stoufenburg (excuse the Spelling), Iron Cross and Many Medals and Citations, also if you know your history known for a certain Brief Case left in a Bunker in the Black Forest. As for my Mother she worked with the Resistance and later with the OSS, she was a Luxembourger, and personally knew Patton. I lost Most of may Family in WW2. So I think you could say I knew a few Vets.
If your asking why I wasn't evolved in any action I had a 2D Deferment, I was a Pastor/Minister.
Everyone has reasons for there view points, to imply that the opposing persons thoughts have no Background or knowledge of the subject, is the oldest and lowest form of trying to win an argument. Not at all what I would expect of an individual who is expressing such knowledge of the subject. In short and no Pun intended, "Can't we all just get along."
Colly, (FN-49'ER)
:)

[Schuetzenman]

Just an amazing post FN-49'er. . . . . you typed many words but offered no meat to prove your point that the Garand clip gives away a mans position in a fire fight. Like the muzzle blast of .30-06 wouldn't do it all on it's own. :rolleyes:

The military lineage back to the French and Indian Wars is real impressive but does nothing to prove that Garand Clips give away a soldiers postion. So really all the lineage you type is irrelevant to the topic. I am temepted to say spoken like a true politician . . . but I won't.

The "well know letter of Patton to Winchester" evidently isn't so well known as I've never heard of it. If you have it in a book why don't you educate us with a full copy of what it says. Got a scanner, that'll make it very easy to put ALL of it in without the potential to edit by accident.

[FN-49'ER]

TO: Schuetzenman

OK here we go.
Although I would like to make one more plea for some kindness, understanding, and less personnel attacks.
I feel that they have and will continue to fall on if not deaf, apparently Dumb ears. However I will say right here and now that, some of what I have to say is going to cross the line on the person attack issue. I do feel I've made a strong effort to be civilized. So I do apologize ahead of time. However this time you really have gone to far.

FIRST: You said
"Just an amazing post FN-49'er. . . . ."

RE: Your first Paragraph.
Apparently not too amazing because you paid no attention to my plea for Understanding and Kindness, and No Personal Attacks. Also if you bothered to read or should I say gave any thought to what I said you would have seen that I said we all have opinions or view points and the right to have them. I also made it Quite clear that I was not going to respond with any further argument on this subject, but rather deal with the personal insults you flail around. In particular the fact that I must not know any Vets. and this is what I responded to.

SECOND: You said in;
Yore next Paragraph, "The military lineage ....."
"I am tempted to say spoken like a true politician . . . but I won't. "

Forgive me for being a little repetitive, but again I already made it perfectly clear to any able to read and comprehend that I was not responding to the former Topic of the Garand issue but YOUR statement that I apparently knew no Vet. So my family lineage is not irrelevant, now is it. Regarding your statement from the earlier attack.

"I've had the privelage to talk to several dozen over the years."
That is to say Vets.

I'm happy for you, I've had the PRIVILEGE of KNOWING and talking to several hundred over years, and that may be thousands, considering there were hundreds at the reunions I would attend with my Father over the years. Not to mention friends and family and work place.

You also said
"I am temepted to say spoken like a true politician . . . but I won't."


Strongly implying that my comments were nothing more than Political Redirect, and my, What Wit, you have.

once again trying to win an argument with insults, where does this end. You talk of MEAT, but all you provide are different forms of personal attacks buy use of Fallacious Arguments, and insults.

In your Third Paragraph

I might also add congratulations for this paragraph, you've really outdone yourself.
You Said; "The 'well know letter of Patton to Winchester...."
"Got a scanner, that'll make it very easy to put ALL of it in without the potential to edit by accident."


You've managed to move right on from implying that I have know knowledge of Veterans, questioning my intelligence to actually calling me a liar.
Once again a very old form of Discrediting a person,
but instead of being one of the lowest forms of argument you've gone right to THE LOWEST FORM, by questioning my integrity.

So before I go one, two points.
I don't have a copy of the letter, however I can direct you to one and sence he advertises on line, in Shotgun News, I feel I can give you his name and Phone #. His name is Guy; He has a Copy of the Patton Letter.

ALL MILITARY & ASSAULT RIFLES GUNSMITHING. Refinish, repair, rebuild, kit building & more, 30 yrs, experience, arsenal trained, M-1 carb., M-1 Garand, AR-15, FN FAL, foreign & domestic. 9 AM-4 PM, Mon.-SAT., 626-280-6493 PST.


Also just in case your next attack would be weather my father was who I said he was.
Go to;
http://www.flyingtigersavg.com/
Then http://www.flyingtigersavg.com/3squad.htm
You'll find him listed, Leon Colquette Crew Chief.
Check my profile, my E-mail address you will see the last name.

Now to get back to your third Paragraph and rapping up my rebuttal.

You said; "evidently isn't so well known as I've never heard of it"

I'm surprised a person of your obvious Supreme Knowledge and Intelligence would even admit there might be something you didn't know of before at least checking just in case it might be true. I might also add that I'm surprised you didn't know Winchester 03's Post WW2, had a problem with there bolts, and please before we all get on another kick I don't believe any of the bad ones are left out there I would like to think the Military took care of this years ago.

Finally Schuetzenman.

What is the Big Deal WITH YOU, I tried to settle this nicely prior to this letter.
I'm new on this site, Perhaps you are the Great All Knowing One of this site. Believe me if this is the case
your welcome to THIS TITLE. I rarely spend any time getting involved in this kind of thing. I look, make a statement and usually let others spend there time in this type of communication. The only reason it has gone this far is because you've continued to take every opportunity, not to Civilly disagree, or give constructive advise. But rather have been in the attack mode from day one. Just what are you afraid of, and no matter what it is, Stand up like a man. Don't Flail insults around like some childish coward.
I laid off, and it got worse.
I gave a polite answer to your less that polite questions and it continued to get even more Rude.
Implying me a liar without any reason.
SO I'm going to put this in a way I believe you can understand.

Knock it off with the Pissing Contest, I don't care who has the biggest .....!

If it means so much to you, YOUR RIGHT, YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN RIGHT, YOU ALWAYS WILL BE RIGHT.
I'm also sure everyone on this site and any other site you Bless us with your ALL KNOWING PRESENCE is Happy as can be that you are SO RIGHT. I would go as far as to say I don't know where any Gun Collector, or enthusiast would be without you being SO RIGHT. I'm surprised I've lived as long as I have without your RIGHTNESS, being in my Life.
Print this, Keep it,
NOW PONDER THAT BEFORE YOU GO CALLING SOMEONE A LIAR.

COLLY.




:rant:

[FN-49'ER]

TO: Schuetzenman
RE: Winchester 03's Post WW2
SORRY I MEANT PRE- WW2

[Schuetzenman]

Bwhahahahahaha!

My you are verbose, just like a Politician.

Knowing combat, ground-pounder, M1 Garand carrying G.I.'s is what's relevant. Your progenitor in the Flying Tigers hardly makes him an expert on ground combat with an M1 now does it oh verbose one.

As far as calling you a liar that's your words and your conclusion. Possibly the guilty mind jumping to the natural conclusion? Don't know nor do I really give a rat’s ass.

The topic that you avoid is M1 Clips giving away a soldier's position in a firefight. I stated I'd talked with several dozen vets, (ground pounders that carried the M1 in WWII, Korea and early Vietnam) actually it was considerably more but I didn't want you to think I was making up things. Really it's in the hundreds. I've been doing gun shows as a dealer for about 8 years more or less. Since I sell surplus ammo, .30-06 being a staple of sales, I get to meet a lot of Garand and Springfield rifle owners. Many a conversation comes about during the sales.

I take these as opportunities to try and shake a few details loose from these vets on what they carried, how did it perform and did they have any problems with the weapon. Nearly to the last man all liked the end result of shooting the enemy with the Garand. Some complained about the weight or the way they had to learn to assemble and dissasemble the weapon in basic to the point where they despised the weapon.

The guys that were Lt.’s. that got issued the Carbines in the vast majority didn't like the rifles as they felt they were under powered. So under powered in fact that they dropped them on the first dead G.I. with a Garand and then took up the Garands.

Why did I fire back at you because you made some very critical statements and basically shot off your mouth about how great the Carbine was, how the clip gives away a shooters position, etc. which is just plain asinine.

Sorry you've gotten your feelings so hurt but if you can't take it don't dish it!

Oh on the Winchester (I'm assuming you are talking M1 Win.) bolts having a problem with being too hard, I do seem to remember reading a little mention of that years ago. However, due to your somewhat cryptic not fully enumerated references it took me until your last post to figure out what the heck you were talking about.

About them killing anybody when they let go, well I don't recall reading anything about that. I've seen a Garand blown up due to improper headspace on a new barrel and it contained the bolt though it did crack the back of the receiver and the bolt itself sheared off it's luggs. It also cracked the receiver on the clip latch side. So my point is I'm skeptical that a bolt faliure would result in it shooting through anybody's head. I'm going to have to read some documents on that one.

On me and the forums, I'm a moderator on over 6 forums on The Guns Network because I've been here for a long time and because I am widely versed on many firearms types. I own most of them and have many hours of hands on experience with them. You on the other hand are a :newbie: that showed up making bold statements that frankly sounded pretty foolish to most of the mods I've spoken to about your post. I was trying to decide if you are a professional forum Troll. I've decided for the moment that you aren't but you're just a very exciteable old guy that takes stuff on internet forums serious as if it were life and death. So stick around or go, it's no different to me.

[FN-49'ER]

TO:Schuetzenman

First I don't have the time right now to go into the detail I need to prove that you are a perfect example that God made fewer Horses than he did a Horses ass.

Next I'm new to this site as is the name I use on this site, I really don't want to go through all the trouble of changing my handle on all the other Sites, I'm known as Colly. I just figured I start using FN-49'er because that is the main Rifle I collect.
If your such a great Moderator you ought to read what I said. I never said that I liked the M1 carbine, to the contrary I said that it was an underpowered POS. Perhaps not in those exact words, but that was the point of it.
I said the FN-49 would have been a better Rifle if the Brits had let FN develop it in 1939 when they had the chance. I no longer shoot because my disability prohibits it. I would do well to hit paper at 100 yards these days so not much sence in it.
Also regarding Rifles the M1 carbine is the only WW2
Rifle I don't have in my personal collection other than the Johnson 41 and sence it was never widely Produced or issued what's the point. I think that says how I feel about the M1 Carbine. From
1871 to 1950 if it was carried by an infantry man in a war for the most part I own it. With the exception of some of the 19th Century French Rifles.
Nor do I collect Italian or Jap Rifles. I love the Garands, I used to think they were the best, a few years ago I got hooked on FN-49's, so that is what I focus on. As I said before we're all entitled to our opinions. Except you of course, yours is apparently the only correct view. The point that I made was a valid one and I'm hardly the only one to have it. Also, most of my friends and Family were infantry, to a man none could figure out why the Garand was designed that way. (Yes, I realize that when it was designed the main rifles of the day were 5 Rnd, stripper Clip fed internal MAGS, with the exception of the 5 Rnd. clip M-95 Steyr Mannlichers)It's just that most think they could have done better. I'll unload more on another day If your Childish attitude hasn't proved to me that there is just no point. 8 years I'm impressed, I've been a collector for more than 30. So go moderate your forums, and why your at it remember to play nice little boy.
I know the last comment was somewhat uncalled for, but your attitude is more than a little condescending and I just had to say it.
Truth is if you would get of your high horse we might be able to exchange some useful information.
Colly.

[Schuetzenman]

FN-49'er you said:The only reason Patton said the M1 Garand was the best Rifle is because he was tired of the Winchester 03A3 Blowing the Brains of His Men, out the back of their heads, there was nothing else.

I went back to see why you pissed me off and here it is old man! You clearly say in the quote above and one other time Winchester O3A3 not Garand. Later you state it was early run Win Garand bolts that had a heat treatment problem and were dangerous in so many words.

However there's a problem, Winchester never made O3A3's. Remington and Smith Corona and Springfield Armory did. Winchester made P17 Enfields in WWI and they made Garands in WWII. So which is it that was exploding and killin G.I.'s again? :rolleyes:

Are your meds clouding your mind or are you just senile old man? (What ye sow, so shall ye reap!) I suggest you move on to another forum where people on drugs make incoherant posts like you. You'll have more in common with them. :asshole:

[Conformerx]

I like the SKS's.:)

[Vladimir Berkov]

FN-49'ER, vets are sometimes wrong in the particulars of weapons or tactics used during their service, especially if they were lower-down on the military totem pole. Have you seen the History Channel "Tales of the Gun" on German arms? One GI was talking about how he pulled a MP40 off a dead German and used it for a while. He stated that it had a "15 round clip." Obviously incorrect.

However, I have yet to see any evidence that a M1 garand clip ejecting gives away a soldiers position, or alerts enemy troops to the fact that the weapon had been emptied.

[Threeline]

Garands are great. Love my Hakim, Rashid and SKS, but I can't believe you left the SVT40 out of the pole. One of the most accurate and interesting arms I've ever fired.