Are the Bulgarian Makarov's actually Russian?

[timkel]

A russian friend just told me that many Bulgarian military Makarovs were actually made in Russia. The bulgarian markings are deceptive. The "circle 10" being applied later.
Anyone else heard this?

[yasnevo]

There are no differences between the Russian (Soviet) and the Bulgarian Makarov's... There is close cooperation between Arsenal and Izhmash...

The parts are 100% interchangable...

Whether the Bulgarian Makarov's are Russian, no... they are Bulgarian! That is what the ATF Form 6 says, Geeeez!

Yasnevo

[timkel]

Originally posted by yasnevo
There are no differences between the Russian (Soviet) and the Bulgarian Makarov's... There is close cooperation between Arsenal and Izhmash...

The parts are 100% interchangable...

Whether the Bulgarian Makarov's are Russian, no... they are Bulgarian! That is what the ATF Form 6 says, Geeeez!

Yasnevo
Are you saying that the Bulgarian Makarovs were made in Bulgaria just like the form 6 states?
Or have you missed the point of my question?

[yasnevo]

did you miss my inuendo?

[timkel]

Originally posted by yasnevo
did you miss my inuendo?
I guess so!

[Noah Zark]

We have the Arsenal website that documents that the Mak was / is made there.

This is the first that I've heard that Bulgarian Maks are "Russian Made". I am somewhat skeptical, after looking at two Russian and six Bulgarian Maks side by side. There are enough differences in tool marks and other features to more than suggest that two very different manufacturing processes were involved.

Just my observation. I'd suggest posting this one over on the Mak board at www.gunboards.com where a lot of the Mak expers hang out.

Noah

[sfc ret]

it could be the soviets may have supplied them with maks, until they got the tooling from them at a later time. but I don't believe that they supplied them in the long haul....bulgaria has it's own arsenals, why would the soviets supply them with pistols, and hinder their production? the soviets sold the licencing and tooling to every country that was in the warsaw pact, for the AK, and other soviet type weapons, as well as to friendly countries like egypt, cuba, NK etc.. I just don't see them exclusively supplying the bulgarians with maks.

btw, the last batch of bulgarians that where imported had some soviet Maks mixed in.

[Scoupe]

In the past CAI has stamped "Bulgaria" on Izhevsk (sp?) marked Maks. Bought one last summer for $150, thinking I was buying a Bulgie. Was confused for a couple days trying to figure out what bulgarian arsenal it was from. Figured it out after seeing the arsenal marks for the Russian made ones and seeing someone post here that the same thing happened to them.

[Zip06]

SFC-RET has part of it. Apparently when the Russkies were in the process of setting up MAK manufacturing facilities in Bulgaria the initial need for side arms was sufficient that the Russians sent some of their Russian made Maks to suffice until the ARSENAL facility was producing Maks. Some were issued to the military and police units and some were placed in storage. As the ARSENAL facility came on line and started producing Maks, those new Bulgarian Maks became issue items and the previously stored Russian Maks remained in storage. Moving along to recent times, the Bulgarians began selling both commercial Maks and surplus military and police Maks to the U.S. Some how Century Arms and PW Arms imported some of the original Russian Maks and over-stamped them with "Made in Bulgaria" stampings and they hit the U.S. market. You can tell them by the arsenal stamp on the reciever. (Due to a President Clinton "agreement" with the Russkies, no further Russian pistols and some other things would be exported to the U.S. for sale) The Russian-mismarked Bulgarian I purchased for $140.00 six months ago, has the circle with a triangle and spear, which is clearly Russian, and the year of manufacture. It also has fixed sights. To finish this saga, both PW Arms and Century now have ATF problems and there is at least one shipment of MAKS from Bulgaria which is being held up until, I heard, the illegal Russian question can be resolved. There is an ongoing conversation about this problem over at www.makarov.com if anyone is interested.

[yasnevo]

Sure, that is it... ;)

Not even close...